| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| emerald |
Posted - 13 Jul 2012 : 4:18:41 PM
In the last few days there have been three or more posts linking Hitler and/or genocide to Type 1 in one way or another. What's the connection?
1w9 - sp
ISFJ |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BADMAN |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 11:47:58 PM
its incumbent on you to articulate and address the program bug...and i don't think you have been able to do that...some mainstream sites/typers have also typed Hitler a 6w5 and they, like you, haven't been able to put forward an alternative model of the enneagram to accomodate for it.
the slam dunk skunk...
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| skunk |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 2:40:24 PM
i have a lot of the latter in my mentality |
| skunk |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 2:38:21 PM
'security' and 'support' are two attempted terms for perhaps the most abstract of the fixation fears. i think that what 6's really fear (and what accords them their place in the evolutionary drive towards consciousness) is of lacking what Fromm called 'rootedness'. Fascism was an appeal to the subconscious need for rootdness, for an organic identity that fused 'people and soil' in a time of great uncertainty.
the counterphobic response is anarchy, destruction and a perverse joy in chaos for its own sake. think of the early seventies in the west - a time of great uncertainty and paranoia - and the plethora of underground organisations and revolutionary movements who preached reaction and upheaval with such passion but offered nothing in its place.
in one sense this puts E6 rightfully at the bottom of the Enneagram, juxtaposed next to the types most subconsciously drawn towards conscious evolution.
Hitler was phobic and counterphobe: impassioned advocate of the cultural and psychological solidity of fascism and lustful destroyer for destructions own sake.
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| BADMAN |
Posted - 12 Aug 2012 : 02:16:15 AM
but you haven't done an adequate job resolving the model's program bug if you think Hitler is a 6w5.
the slam dunk skunk...
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| skunk |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 10:33:56 PM
that speech is paranoic. guardedness and vigilance taken to their zenith.
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| BADMAN |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 10:10:53 PM
does this person really strike you as the most guarded and vigilant personality type?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0V_xf3OQgM&feature=related
the slam dunk skunk...
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| skunk |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 10:50:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by thomg
quote:
Originally posted by BADMAN
Hitler is what I call a "very high temperament 1w9."
I believe that a high temperament modifes the basic fixation in a more extreme, excitable, volatile, and self-destructive way...unlike Dave Kelly (Ptypes), I don't think that Etype is the product of temperament or vice-versa but that, rather, temperament is a separate influence and shows up differently even among people with the same type.
the moderate temperament 1w9 happens to be closer to the "normal 1w9" and the very low and very high temperament 1w9s fall furthest outside the stereotype. the high and very high temperament 1w9s are the easiest 1w9s to mistake for a reactive type...as I think was often done in the case of Hitler.
the slam dunk skunk...
You might want to check out Ockham's razor.
what i was just going to say.
temperament aside, a One will not exploit and glorify ranting emotionalism becasue it's against their self-image. it would be like a Five deriding the value of thought and of objectivity.
you could do with taking some time out to try and get down to first principles and the essential relationship between motivation and behaviour in the types rather than making it up for yourself.
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| thomg |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 07:18:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by BADMAN
Hitler is what I call a "very high temperament 1w9."
I believe that a high temperament modifes the basic fixation in a more extreme, excitable, volatile, and self-destructive way...unlike Dave Kelly (Ptypes), I don't think that Etype is the product of temperament or vice-versa but that, rather, temperament is a separate influence and shows up differently even among people with the same type.
the moderate temperament 1w9 happens to be closer to the "normal 1w9" and the very low and very high temperament 1w9s fall furthest outside the stereotype. the high and very high temperament 1w9s are the easiest 1w9s to mistake for a reactive type...as I think was often done in the case of Hitler.
the slam dunk skunk...
You might want to check out Ockham's razor. |
| BADMAN |
Posted - 09 Aug 2012 : 01:12:08 AM
Hitler is what I call a "very high temperament 1w9."
I believe that a high temperament modifes the basic fixation in a more extreme, excitable, volatile, and self-destructive way...unlike Dave Kelly (Ptypes), I don't think that Etype is the product of temperament or vice-versa but that, rather, temperament is a separate influence and shows up differently even among people with the same type.
the moderate temperament 1w9 happens to be closer to the "normal 1w9" and the very low and very high temperament 1w9s fall furthest outside the stereotype. the high and very high temperament 1w9s are the easiest 1w9s to mistake for a reactive type...as I think was often done in the case of Hitler.
the slam dunk skunk...
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| Stormy |
Posted - 01 Aug 2012 : 12:43:24 PM
Thanks for the link, Cyto.
- [Stormy] |
| Cytokine |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 4:52:08 PM
Much more work needs to be done in those area before there is anything conclusive. However, some research does suggest that dolphin vocalizations involve syntax.
Temporal sequence analysis of bottlenose dolphin vocalizations
"An examination of the frequency distribution of sequences revealed that dolphins produce many multi-unit sequences based on our definition in which 300ms breaks indicated the boundaries of a sequence. These sequences began and ended with well defined sets of vocalizations with sequence beginners being more strictly defined than sequence enders. Clearly, the sequences have structure."
"In summary, our analysis revealed there are well-defined sets of vocalizations which begin and end sequences, and correlation between successive vocalizations is very strong. Overall, these findings establish compelling evidence that there is significant structure in sequences of dolphin vocalizations, i.e., a syntax"
1w9 sp/sx Obsessive Compulsive
"Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare."
Isaacus Newtonus |
| Stormy |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 3:49:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cytokine
Point not taken.
Syntax is essential to language; I don't see where it's been demonstrated that non-humans have any mastery of syntax
- [Stormy] |
| Cytokine |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 3:34:35 PM
Point not taken.
1w9 sp/sx Obsessive Compulsive
"Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare."
Isaacus Newtonus |
| Stormy |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 1:40:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cytokine
No.
http://speakdolphin.com/
I found one mention of syntax on that site:
"Human definitions of language require speech (the signals we use), syntax (the structure we use), and semantics (the signals we use)."
- Dolphin Language Analysis
- [Stormy] |
| Cytokine |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 1:23:27 PM
No.
http://speakdolphin.com/
1w9 sp/sx Obsessive Compulsive
"Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare."
Isaacus Newtonus |
| Stormy |
Posted - 31 Jul 2012 : 1:01:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cytokine
Biologically and scientifically, humans are air-breathing vertebrate animals, also known as mammals. We are members of the same class as other animals, so I don't see what makes the killing of a human so different.
Language.
- [Stormy] |
| Cytokine |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 10:57:09 PM
As for redemption, I think a lot of corruption is down to DNA level and can't be "redeemed", at least not without an advanced form of intervention. E.g. -
'Impulsivity gene' found in violent offenders
The mutation, in a gene called HTR2B, prevents production of the serotonin 2B receptor, a key docking point in brain cells for the neurotransmitter serotonin. One consequence could be depletion of serotonin in the nucleus accumbens, a part of the brain involved in providing restraint and foresight into the consequences of actions.
1w9 sp/sx Obsessive Compulsive
"Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare."
Isaacus Newtonus |
| Cytokine |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 10:39:00 PM
What's the difference between killing a human and killing a cetacean?
Humans kill whales, dolphins, elephants, apes and other intelligent species, some of which are also endangered. These species have a highly developed neocortex, just like us. Yet we don't ask them whether they want to live or not while we mercilessly butcher them and destroy their habitat.
Biologically and scientifically, humans are air-breathing vertebrate animals, also known as mammals. We are members of the same class as other animals, so I don't see what makes the killing of a human so different.
It's an act that, to some people, is easily excusable and rationalized, especially when some humans also happen to stand in the way of a greater idea.
1w9 sp/sx Obsessive Compulsive
"Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare."
Isaacus Newtonus |
| 1NFJ |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 8:27:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cytokine
I don't see why some people are opposed to the idea that 1s are capable of "mass murder". They can easily excuse and rationalize it as population control, collateral damage or necessary human sacrifice.
Likely easier for the xxTJ E1s than the xxFJ types, I'd argue.
Don't get me wrong, humanity is in some serious need of population control, but I can imagine scant few circumstances where I'd pull the trigger, or give the order to.
I'll also take this opportunity to agree with emerald and quartz about redemption. While I know that some people aren't redeemable, my default is to believe they are until proven otherwise.
---
1w9 sp/sx
INFJ |
| Cytokine |
Posted - 30 Jul 2012 : 1:51:08 PM
I don't see why some people are opposed to the idea that 1s are capable of "mass murder". They can easily excuse and rationalize it as population control, collateral damage or necessary human sacrifice.
1s strive to do things that are right and good, but their understanding of those terms may vary widely.
Hypothetically, a 1 could create and relase a virus that would kill half of world's population, and while some people would view it as despicable mass murder, the 1 would view it as a correction to the problem of human overpopulation and its strain on earth's resources.
1w9 sp/sx Obsessive Compulsive
"Corpus omne perseverare in statu suo quiescendi vel movendi uniformiter in directum, nisi quatenus a viribus impressis cogitur statum illum mutare."
Isaacus Newtonus |
| 8way |
Posted - 22 Jul 2012 : 04:37:35 AM
I have thought of Osama as a social/self-pres 5. I can see the type 1 too. He is described as a zealot, organized and methodical. 513?
Himmler was the 1 in the Hitler regime.
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| emerald |
Posted - 15 Jul 2012 : 12:20:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by May Hem
Like the eye of a hurricane. I think Osama was pure gut regardless of anything else and open to shock but he was solid,very solid
That feels correct.
1w9 - sp
ISFJ |
| MH |
Posted - 15 Jul 2012 : 12:00:17 PM
Like the eye of a hurricane. I think Osama was pure gut regardless of anything else and open to shock but he was solid,very solid |
| emerald |
Posted - 15 Jul 2012 : 11:57:45 AM
May Hem, There is definitely something about Osama's eyes. Thats the first thing i thought of when whitella mentioned him. They look sleepy to me which i think strange considering what he was up to.
1w9 - sp
ISFJ |
| MH |
Posted - 15 Jul 2012 : 11:57:08 AM
Core gut issues revolve around repression, expecially with type 1. WW2 does not revolve specifically around issues of repression. More along the lines of real true to the hilt fear. Just imo |
