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T O P I C R E V I E W
The Enneagram Institute
Posted - 04 Jan 2009 : 12:57:47 PM Everyone,
It's odd that, so far, Michelle's type has not been discussed on this Board (as far as we know). While we are 99% sure about Barack Obama's type as a Three with a Four-wing SO (see that discussion in the thread "The 2008 Presidential Candidates"), we are less clear about Michelle Obama's type, although we have narrowed it down to what we think are the two most likely types that fit the patterns of her personality that we can observe.
But rather than prejudice the discussion by giving our opinion, we open a discussion of Michelle Obama's type here for your thoughts and supporting evidence. Looking forward to hearing your opinions (based, we trust, on as many available facts as possible!).
-- The Enneagram Institute
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
dfgray44
Posted - 03 Nov 2009 : 6:13:06 PM When gauging One-ness, I set my secret Enneagram decoder ring to measure a person's level of intolerance. On a gauge from 0 - 10, it should never go below 3 or so, and generally stays between 4 - 6. It's a significant accent in the voice, style, vibe - a scent that emanates - and you should be able to imagine the person cranking their intolerance up to level 10 - full steam. Perfect disdain that knows it's right.
You see it in Hilary. Even though she hides it well, for some reason everyone knows she's angry. Ones know...and no one else does, so intolerance is a duty to the general public.
Also look for whether Michelle is intolerant of her own body...in the way that a Puritan would be intolerant of theirs. "All those dirty messy urges and secretions." It's barely a tolerable situation - being in a body - the only solution is a strict health regimen, usually related to diet since this affects the nature and consistency of the feces.
********* / *
Scorpionical
Posted - 03 Nov 2009 : 5:33:32 PM
quote:Take a good look at it and know that I always carry a sword."
Your really into Swords these days...hmm
JoL
Posted - 03 Nov 2009 : 4:41:21 PM I've changed my mind. I think she's a 1.
9/1 sx/sp
dfgray44
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 10:15:35 PM The thing about the photos where you see flashes of her anger is that if you saw the video (from the same scene) you wouldn't see an angry person. This means that we're stealing glimpses of her anger.
If she's an Eight and she's angry, the anger will be laid out on the table. That doesn't necessarily equate to a rageful display, it could look like "Here's my sword. Take a good look at it and know that I always carry a sword."
If she's an angry 8, we need to see evidence of consistent resistance to being handled by her 'handlers'.....and veering off of a purely moral message into combat jargon. There should also be no trouble with 'me first'.
If you want to see a current political 8, look at Sarcozy of France. Sure, he uses moral messages, but 'me'-ness is an easy suit for him to wear. In fact, it's his skin.
********* / *
.ron4
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 10:12:48 PM Jol
when I think of 6s with that look they could be playing the 'tough guy' with that look. Fearing others. hmmmm.. maybe 6.
ron
JoL
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 4:57:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by .ron4
Commonly 8s don't show attitude with their eyes but 1 commonly do, and that is anger and that is what I see in Michelle's eyes.
ron
She does have eyes that seem to put her in the instinctual triad. I think earlier on this (or another) post, I added a whole bunch of photos of 8s (Betty Davis, Sigourney Weaver), and I thought her eyes were 8ish.
On the other hand, 6s often seem like a combination of instinct and emotion, since they're in the middle of the thinking triad.
If I had to type her based on what I know about how she's lived her life, I'd say healthy 6. (I don't know that much about her though...only what the press tells us.)
Another thing, 8s are "rejection" types. She seems like an "attachment" type imo. Her occasional criticisms seem more 6ish than 1ish. I'm undecided. 9/1 sx/sp
.ron4
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 3:16:12 PM Commonly 8s don't show attitude with their eyes but 1 commonly do, and that is anger and that is what I see in Michelle's eyes.
ron
marie
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 3:11:26 PM I'm going with sp/soc Eight with Nine.
the_eye
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 1:39:21 PM She strikes me as an 8 with 9.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht'
JoL
Posted - 28 Oct 2009 : 1:31:55 PM I wanted to revive this thread and see where others are with typing Michelle. I'm still seeing healthy 6 or 8.
Once again, I disagree with nearly everything everyone has said so far.
My best guess, and I'm still not convinced, is that Michelle Obama is a four (4). She's very flexible but competitive. She pouts when she loses (or she gets mad), and fours are often cranky--brief moments of anger they often allow themselves, as this seems to be a "safe" emotion to express (especially if their husbands are ones, and I think Barack is a one). She seems to be a shame creature to me, and it looks like she represses emotion. She can be perfectionistic (grows toward one). She seems to have a lot of two in her as well (stresses toward two). In other words, she looks like a four to me. Of course, I could be convinced otherwise.
Flame away.
-Laelth
Type 1 (wing uncertain), SX/SO/SP, INTJ "The only way to always be right is to always be open to the possibility that you are wrong." -Laelth
dfgray44
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 08:59:42 AM
quote:Originally posted by bear
quote:Originally posted by dfgray44
'Ranginess' is the word I'd use to describe the width of an 8's energy within a given space. The spaciousness has a lot to do with superego not being the prime psychic director. The energy butts in, often unintentionally, without any regard for what it's "supposed" to do. v v v She's got too much ease and 'ranginess' in her body to be a One.
I'm thinking of all the twos I've known fairly well - so/sp, sx/sp, so/sx, sx/so, and three sp/sx. She doesn't ring like any of them. I can see some tiny hints that look a little like the so/sp and one of the sp/sx, but not enough to put her in their camp.
Degrees (and styles) of 'body ranginess' are what I'm looking at - each type having some general descriptions in this area. Some of which is more abstract than literal, i.e.- more 'energy vibe'-ish than related to actual types of physical movements/gestures.
Regardless of that subject, I see someone (Michelle) who would 'drop everything' when a superego duty needed tending to, or would at least will give the appearance of such. Just using my subjective imagination exercises, with her, I easily see her pouring forth very personalized attention and focus on individuals (in private settings) in a fashion that doesn't jibe with E8. Not that 8s can't/won't do that, but Twos do it without nearly the concern over the 'power message' this behavior sends.
Imagine her ease in coming down into the space of children, with no thought about a diminishment in her toughness stature.
But I've got a weird list of sp/so 2w1s: Ross Perot, John McCain, Michelle.
It's tricky with Twos and the 'me first' aspect of sp-first.....We might get really wild and say that sp-first pulls the line-to-8 significantly, as compared to other Twos...
********* / *
Serenity
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 07:45:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by morerain
quote:Originally posted by morerain
Her type is "yeck" and she doesn't know how to dress.
BTW: I'm insulted that anyone would think she's a One (since I'm a One). She doesn't know how to dress or even eat properly! Therefore, she's obviously not a Perfectionist or as uptight as Hillary or myself. Duh!
Jen 1w2 INTJ (The Perfectionist)
Ones don't need to be perfect at everything...they just need to be perfect at what they consider important. For example, do you have solar panels, light efficient bulbs, drive a hybrid? If not, you're not a one!
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." Edgar Allen Poe
4w5 INfj sx/sp
Idiosyncratic/Sensitive/Self-Sacrificing
bear
Posted - 14 May 2009 : 9:42:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by marie
Oh yeah...and her hugging the Queen? Such a breach of protocol! That was really funny to me.
very lusty, I thought.
quote:Originally posted by dfgray44
'Ranginess' is the word I'd use to describe the width of an 8's energy within a given space. The spaciousness has a lot to do with superego not being the prime psychic director. The energy butts in, often unintentionally, without any regard for what it's "supposed" to do. v v v She's got too much ease and 'ranginess' in her body to be a One.
I'm thinking of all the twos I've known fairly well - so/sp, sx/sp, so/sx, sx/so, and three sp/sx. She doesn't ring like any of them. I can see some tiny hints that look a little like the so/sp and one of the sp/sx, but not enough to put her in their camp.
quote:Originally posted by JoL
In light of something I just posted on the Barack Obama thread, I'd like to ask the people (some of whom I consider experts) on this board what they think of this:
When someone is born a 9, but is motivated by strong family members to "do good things" in the world, might they not look like both Michelle and Barack.
ime, 9s work out of the wings or attachments when they take on life, and they do take on life when they're spurred on in a positive way. My dad is an 8/3ish salesman type, who is a 9 underneath it.
I don't think Michelle is a 9, but I think your point is valid. 9s do seem to me to take on aspects of their parents in more obvious ways than most types.
protective_pocket
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 8:38:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by Anastacia Lacrosse
quote:Originally posted by protective_pocket
morality is subjective. There are great injustices done in the name of morality.
Absolutely.
I think the enneagram does a rather good job describing healthy and unhealthy behavior without attaching moral condemnation to the process.
A discerning person can identify the destructive behavior without attaching moral values to it.
An effective therapist is discerning and can recognize the potential harm of destructive behavior while not being a judgmental moralist.
A discerning person might remove themselves from a potentially destructive situation or destructive individual and can do so without being a judgmental moralist. They can simple be a discerning person that makes a healthy personal choice.
- A disaster waiting to happen.
JoL
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 8:18:35 PM
quote:Originally posted by Habanero
I type Michelle is an 8. But I also type Kate Gosselin (so seemingly an E1) as an eight as well, probably both SP. I think you can be perfectionistic, rules bound, even suffer OCD and still be an Eight. Eights are comfortable with themselves and make no apologies for who they are. Of all the people E1’s control, they control themselves the most. Not so much with Eights. There’s a naturalness, a complete lack of shame. Yeah, that’s me. Deal! They have a strong sense of their own personal power and are aware of shifts in balance of power. Kate uses a lot of oneish obseessions as a means to wield power, and not so much out of a super ego need. (imo).
A lot of E9s married to E8s. Lots of mutual benefit there. Nines don’t get sucked into the power plays and allow a lot of stuff to roll off their backs. And Nines will happily let Eights go out and do their bidding for them. I have E8 co-workers and that’s how the dynamic is. You can get them riled up...especially about justice issues...kind of like Ones, but then send them off to go kick some butt and they fearlessly bring it. Eights make good mentors too. I always seek them out in the workplace. So....Michelle (and Kate) are unfamiliar to me in a way that Eights are, whereas Ones feel more familiar to me. Just a vibe really...
How do you type Jon Gosselin?
9-7-4sx/sp ENFP
"Youth understands its environment instinctively...it lives mythically in depth." -Marshall McLuhan
Habanero
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 6:30:52 PM I type Michelle is an 8. But I also type Kate Gosselin (so seemingly an E1) as an eight as well, probably both SP. I think you can be perfectionistic, rules bound, even suffer OCD and still be an Eight. Eights are comfortable with themselves and make no apologies for who they are. Of all the people E1’s control, they control themselves the most. Not so much with Eights. There’s a naturalness, a complete lack of shame. Yeah, that’s me. Deal! They have a strong sense of their own personal power and are aware of shifts in balance of power. Kate uses a lot of oneish obseessions as a means to wield power, and not so much out of a super ego need. (imo).
A lot of E9s married to E8s. Lots of mutual benefit there. Nines don’t get sucked into the power plays and allow a lot of stuff to roll off their backs. And Nines will happily let Eights go out and do their bidding for them. I have E8 co-workers and that’s how the dynamic is. You can get them riled up...especially about justice issues...kind of like Ones, but then send them off to go kick some butt and they fearlessly bring it. Eights make good mentors too. I always seek them out in the workplace. So....Michelle (and Kate) are unfamiliar to me in a way that Eights are, whereas Ones feel more familiar to me. Just a vibe really...
Odyssey
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 6:29:30 PM After watching more videos of MO, I no longer think she's a 6. Two elements are missing for sixness : 1. vulnerability : she displays none for the most part. No Achille's heel. 2. self-deprecation : I can't recall her mentioning her own mistakes or making fun of herself.
I still don't think she's a 1. Her casual-common sense-straight talk exudes inner freedom. I don't find her constricted. I'm not sensing the superego whispering in her ears and holding her back. She feels free. She does the right thing not because she has to, but because she likes to.
Something about life being an adventure.
dfgray44
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 6:18:51 PM She's got too much ease and 'ranginess' in her body to be a One. Just as Sixes project a grid onto the world, Ones fit their bodies into a grid - and most of the 'ease' they display is a lesson they're teaching us on how to have ease.
If you're seeing anger, 2w1s have tons of it - the pressure of being the perfectly loving principled angel. Check out Jerry Lewis sometime - barely scratch the surface and lo, a hothead freak.
When sx is in last position, and especially having a One-wing, the 'love juice' of E2 isn't spilling everywhere. Sp/so 2w1 is a "worker".
********* / *
Anastacia Lacrosse
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 6:17:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by protective_pocket
morality is subjective. There are great injustices done in the name of morality.
Absolutely.
protective_pocket
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 6:14:44 PM morality is subjective. There are great injustices done in the name of morality.
- A disaster waiting to happen.
Anastacia Lacrosse
Posted - 08 May 2009 : 6:10:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by protective_pocket
Was she angry at the injustice or the lack of morals? 8's can get rather mad when they see injustice around them. They tend to champion the disadvantaged when higher in health.
quote: Which brings one to the "anger" issue. It's evident in her Princeton thesis ... where I think one sees a great deal of ressentiment.
I never read it. Was she angry at the injustice or the lack of morals? 8's can get rather mad when they see injustice around them. They tend to champion the disadvantaged when higher in health.
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