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T O P I C R E V I E W
Crimson
Posted - 24 Mar 2012 : 03:33:10 AM Here's a question for you all -- Where and how were you taught the Enneagram? And is there anything that was unique about it?
I learned it in a religion class back when I was in grade twelve. It was done in a Catholic context, but I don't think the religious elements of the class detract from what the Enneagram is about.
I was taught that the first major point of the Enneagram, is that the personality is a defence mechanism, and that each personality type revolves around an avoidance. Furthermore, for that person to grow, they must move against their Enneagram arrow.
And lastly, this probably isn't of my own lesson learned in school, but I contend that people only have one personality type, which means I don't buy into any of this tri type stuff.
Your experiences? Thoughts?
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Crimson
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 3:24:55 PM The only "official" training I've ever received in the Enneagram is from my high school. The rest is either from my own reading, or in elongated conversations with other people that also know the Enneagram.
Stormy
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 12:48:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by Sinking
quote:Originally posted by Stormy
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
Extrovered ("Moving against the world"): 8, 3, and 7. Introverted ("Moving away from the world"): 9, 4, and 5. In the middle ("Moving with the world"): 1, 2, and 6.
E2's Fixation is precisely on getting the world to move around oneself, as opposed to moving with the world ("I help make things happen."). E1 isn't known for it's transigence, either.
2 & 1 more want the world to move with them. No... They want the world to want to move with them.
That's spot-on for E2; E1 wants the world to move as it thinks it should, whether the world wants to or not.
- [Stormy]
sunny
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 11:40:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Orpheus
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
JOL,
No... we're both talking about the Enneagram. It's just the way I learned it focused on personal development. Most other forms of Enneagram education would rather emphasize relationship building, and not looking at growing as a person. Most people that would pay thousands of dollars for these workshops don't want to be told what is wrong with them, and how they need to grow as a person, which is why these workshops would rather highlight people's strengths and relationships.
Ron,
You can believe me if you want, on the topic of an Enneagram changing or not. At this point, I would like to think that we are all adults, and are not looking to change our personality types.
How many of these workshops you been to?
I have heard from several sources that Palmer is nuts.
________________________________
The agony of lovers burns with the fire of passion. Lovers leave traces of where they've been. The wailing of broken hearts is the doorway to God.
Crazy? I didn't get that impression, but then she looks like a 6 who's gone to 9 permanently...I suppose that might look crazy to some. People think I'm crazy too. lol.
I saw her last year and I loved her. It was my favorite workshop as of yet.
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Sinking
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 11:07:03 AM
quote:Originally posted by Stormy
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
Extrovered ("Moving against the world"): 8, 3, and 7. Introverted ("Moving away from the world"): 9, 4, and 5. In the middle ("Moving with the world"): 1, 2, and 6.
E2's Fixation is precisely on getting the world to move around oneself, as opposed to moving with the world ("I help make things happen."). E1 isn't known for it's transigence, either.
- [Stormy]
2 & 1 more want the world to move with them. No... They want the world to want to move with them.
quote:Ahd yes, personality type can change at the time of puberty. Puberty is a pretty messed up time, and that child needs to learn to adapt, hence potentially coming out of there with a different enneagram type.
Does your teacher believe this is common, Crimson? And does this mean fully developed adults can change type during "messed up times"? Can't say I've bought this theory yet, but I'm willing to go with it for now.
-------- A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. It don't make any difference who the guy is, so long as he's with you. I tell ya... I tell ya a guy gets too lonely, and he gets sick.
Stormy
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 10:26:32 AM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
Extrovered ("Moving against the world"): 8, 3, and 7. Introverted ("Moving away from the world"): 9, 4, and 5. In the middle ("Moving with the world"): 1, 2, and 6.
E2's Fixation is precisely on getting the world to move around oneself, as opposed to moving with the world ("I help make things happen."). E1 isn't known for it's transigence, either.
- [Stormy]
Orpheus
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 08:07:54 AM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
JOL,
No... we're both talking about the Enneagram. It's just the way I learned it focused on personal development. Most other forms of Enneagram education would rather emphasize relationship building, and not looking at growing as a person. Most people that would pay thousands of dollars for these workshops don't want to be told what is wrong with them, and how they need to grow as a person, which is why these workshops would rather highlight people's strengths and relationships.
Ron,
You can believe me if you want, on the topic of an Enneagram changing or not. At this point, I would like to think that we are all adults, and are not looking to change our personality types.
How many of these workshops you been to?
I have heard from several sources that Palmer is nuts.
________________________________
The agony of lovers burns with the fire of passion. Lovers leave traces of where they've been. The wailing of broken hearts is the doorway to God.
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 04:35:16 AM Extrovered ("Moving against the world"): 8, 3, and 7. Introverted ("Moving away from the world"): 9, 4, and 5. In the middle ("Moving with the world"): 1, 2, and 6.
pinecone
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 03:41:59 AM I also think the whole tri-type thing is bunk. It plays into American's belief that we can be/do/have it all. No, you can't. You are not a special snowflake with a unique 3-digit code. You are a 4, or a 2, or an 8, or a 1. Be grateful you have wings. Anyway, some types are harder to find. 9s can be hard, because they might identify with everything. 6s can be hard, because they don't trust their own instincts, 7s might choose one of everything before settling down. I think JoL is right when she says that instinct stacking can cause a lot of confusion for a long time. If you're a so/sx 5, that could be hard to pin down. How does an extroverted 1 or 5 work? What about an introverted 3 or 7?
.ron4
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 9:57:18 PM Crimson
I have a hard time believing something I don't understand although I have and then learned but if I don't find the understanding then I have to drop it.
Again this is not that important that I know where or when my type developed, only that I "know" my type now.
thank you.
Ron
"If you wanna make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make a change".
Crimson
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 9:56:08 PM Type 4, 5 wing. But apparently, as I grow older, I am supposed to see my other wing become more prominent.
sunny
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 9:53:35 PM What type are you Crimson?
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Crimson
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 9:52:47 PM We're both talking about the Enneagram. It's just that every author or facilitator will have their own unique takes on the topic.
sunny
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 9:07:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
JOL,
No... we're both talking about the Enneagram. It's just the way I learned it focused on personal development. Most other forms of Enneagram education would rather emphasize relationship building, and not looking at growing as a person. Most people that would pay thousands of dollars for these workshops don't want to be told what is wrong with them, and how they need to grow as a person, which is why these workshops would rather highlight people's strengths and relationships.
Why would you assume that? Your impressions/assumptions (about EI and other workshops) are opposite of my experience.
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Crimson
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 9:01:49 PM JOL,
No... we're both talking about the Enneagram. It's just the way I learned it focused on personal development. Most other forms of Enneagram education would rather emphasize relationship building, and not looking at growing as a person. Most people that would pay thousands of dollars for these workshops don't want to be told what is wrong with them, and how they need to grow as a person, which is why these workshops would rather highlight people's strengths and relationships.
Ron,
You can believe me if you want, on the topic of an Enneagram changing or not. At this point, I would like to think that we are all adults, and are not looking to change our personality types.
.ron4
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 8:53:46 PM Crimson
If you are saying 'you were taught type can change at puberty ' and you don't understand it then it could be that type actually does not change.
No there is no such thing as tri-type to me. It doesn't help center on undesirably traits in core type.
Ron
"If you wanna make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make a change".
sunny
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 8:47:23 PM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
Ron
A person develops their (Enneagram) personality type usually between the ages of 2-4, and their personality type can cange around the time of puberty. It's at those pivotal times in a person's life, that they need to adapt, cope, and aultimately learn to build up some kind of a defense mechanism, determines the personality type.
And no, there is no type blending. I don't buy into this tri type stuff, which seems like everybody on this board seems to believe in.
JOL,
I was taught the Enneagram by a teacher in my old high school. Over the years, I've read up on it too, and even managed to get myself a degree in psychology. I hope that's credible enough for you.
Although it's an interesting idea and I'll keep an open mind, I've never seen or heard of anyone changing types because of puberty. None of the teachers I've encountered have mentioned anything like that and my experience with children doesn't validate that idea either. For now I'll have to assume that we are talking about different versions of the Enneagram.
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Crimson
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 8:24:50 PM Ron
A person develops their (Enneagram) personality type usually between the ages of 2-4, and their personality type can cange around the time of puberty. It's at those pivotal times in a person's life, that they need to adapt, cope, and aultimately learn to build up some kind of a defense mechanism, determines the personality type.
And no, there is no type blending. I don't buy into this tri type stuff, which seems like everybody on this board seems to believe in.
JOL,
I was taught the Enneagram by a teacher in my old high school. Over the years, I've read up on it too, and even managed to get myself a degree in psychology. I hope that's credible enough for you.
sunny
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 7:12:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
In the context of the Enneagram, personality is what comes out of a defense mechanism. Peoplare are not born with a defense mechanism, but people can be born with things like preferences (chocolate over vanilla), which separated twins can share, regardless of environment.
Ahd yes, personality type can change at the time of puberty. Puberty is a pretty messed up time, and that child needs to learn to adapt, hence potentially coming out of there with a different enneagram type.
Is this something you've heard from a teacher, read about, observed in your own experience, or are you just guessing? I'm always willing to look at ideas differently if the information seems credible.
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.ron4
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 7:08:54 PM I would like to hear more on the idea of one changing his type. How would one know this to be the case ?
My thinking is your type whether one changes it or not, what was there is still there and would have to be able to blend to another type ?
"If you wanna make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make a change".
Crimson
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 6:59:27 PM In the context of the Enneagram, personality is what comes out of a defense mechanism. Peoplare are not born with a defense mechanism, but people can be born with things like preferences (chocolate over vanilla), which separated twins can share, regardless of environment.
Ahd yes, personality type can change at the time of puberty. Puberty is a pretty messed up time, and that child needs to learn to adapt, hence potentially coming out of there with a different enneagram type.
.ron4
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 6:27:29 PM The argument about where personality comes from isn't that important. Retrospect of where we came from may play an important part in the redo of our thinking. We can see things in our past that was a cause an effect in our thinking that helped us do things in our certain way(type) and find ourselves trying to go in the direction of least pain, but this is still personality. (defense mechanism ) Our type is the most important to know if you want to make yourself a more content person. Knowing your type with the R&H system directs you to those things that you need not to think about. The mind is a terrible thing
"If you wanna make the world a better place take a look at yourself and make a change".
Sinking
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 6:25:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson
That's not how I was taught. My teacher told us that people are born without personalities. And that somewhere between the age of two and four, some kind of a "challenge" (for a lack of a better term) happens to the young child, and that child learns how to cope. In this coping, arises a personality that shields the actual person. In other words, the personality (enneagram types) is a defense mechanism. The enneagram type may change again, once that child is at the age of puberty. But after that point, the enneagram type stays put. Each person only has one type, and there is none of that tri type nonsense.
You really think type can change again during puberty?
-------- A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. It don't make any difference who the guy is, so long as he's with you. I tell ya... I tell ya a guy gets too lonely, and he gets sick.
sunny
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 6:06:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Crimson personality is not determined by birth, but by upbringing.
What makes you think that? Have you ever seen studies done about twins who were separated at birth?
I think it's complex and there are many factors that influence the person we become, but I think our E-type is mostly inborn.
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Crimson
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 5:29:39 PM I'm sure that there are some built-in hardwired traits that newborns have. But personality is not determined by birth, but by upbringing.
sunny
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 5:05:38 PM Here's how I've come to see it: Children are born with nervous system tendencies/"temperaments". The defenses that develop do so naturally and unconsciously because of the temperament.
An (oversimplified) analogy: The temperament is the seed and the ego is the plant that develops from the seed. A zinnia seed won't produce a tomato plant. The environment affects the development of the plant and will make it weak or hardy.
Another analogy: An Eskimo builds his protection out of what's available and ends up with a igloo. A Sioux does the same and ends up with a teepee. Teepees and igloos are made out of different materials, but serve the same purpose. The people who build them use what's naturally available.
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