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T O P I C R E V I E W
Narc
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 6:55:50 PM Steve Rogers / Captain America Type 6. Courageous. Wants to be good hero and to be of service. A team player. Quite humble and likeable, he dislikes Tony Starks' overstated self-confidence.
David Banner / Hulk Type 9. A nice guy. Kind and timid man. Gentle. Never openly aggressive. When he becomes Hulk, we see what type 9 is repressing.
Tony Stark / Iron Man Type 3. Overconfident braggadocio. In his own words: Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist. Charming, smooth, businessman. Self-obsessed, achiever. Lots of status symbols. A NYC skyscraper with his name in lights, cool penthouse apartment, nice cars, etc. [EDIT: Changed to 7w8. Unabashed show-off. Unlike a 3 he is not ashamed if this causes offense. A 3 would measure, moderate and adapt his behavior in order to pander to the desires of the other. Tony Stark does not do this. He doesn't care and does not modulate himself in the way a 3 does.]
Loki Type 4. Envious and hateful. Dark, sombre and mysterious. Jealous of his brother Thor, Loki hates all the positive and noble things that Thor stands for. Loki seeks redress through power. He wants recognition, to be worshiped, to rule, to be king. This is just a fantasy, a frustrated self-image which is never actualized. Loki brings shame to his family and his brother Thor wants to reform him or to stop him.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
DRAGON8
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 04:13:56 AM
quote:Originally posted by Orpheus
I'm a big comic fan, always preferred x-men but I loved this movie and saw it in IMAX 3d (first time ) with Russ and some friends at midnight. When I get on a real computer I'll post a pic of me in my paper mâché Loki helmet.
Captain America - social 1/9 doing the right thing, guilt, even when scrawny he was not afraid to stand up for what was right, more motivated by his gut sense of right and wrong than loyalty. Has too much 'knowing' to be a 6, not imagey enough to be a 3 Scolding Stark. Resistant to new ways.
Iron Man - film sx 7, comics social 3 hedonism/narcissism to finding his heart and working on a team, not being the center of attention. Immediately drawn to Banner, repelled by Cap. Inventor, can't stop from developing new armor, has a hidden idealist 'give the world clean energy' streak.
Thor - clear social 8 " I am protector of this realm!" from cocky and arrogant to 2 like self appointed protection of Midgard.
Banner - 6/5 - hulk representing the power/instinct/energy/ that seems threatening to 6 which they learn is actually a gift and not. Wants to fit in, self depricating humor, nervous energy, research scientist.
Loki - sx 4/3 envy of Thor, competition for and hatred against Odins love. Dramatic and narcissistic need to be acknowledged as significant and better. Goes darker in this , thinks hes seen how things 'really are' after dealing with the darkness of Thanos.
Black Widow - sx 6 femme fatale secret agent and spy who is self protected who only really trusts Hawkeye. Manipulated when younger, cynical about others agendas, calculated, but has to step out of shadows when compromised by Loki. Possibly 8 with focus on autonomy and wounding at young age but seems too calculated rather than impulsive and gut.
Hawkeye - sp/sx 7/8 cocky and confident , but likes to keep distance and be uninvolved. Good at pattern recognition and synthesizing data quickly.
---- Love comics as well. I Thor 8, yeah social but the actor might be sexual Iron Man 7 hands down especially with Robert Downy Jr who is a 7 Captain America 1 with 6 and probably 2 Hulk 6 for sure probably has 9 as his gut type. 6s get big when they feel pushed to far Loki 4
Orpheus
Posted - 06 Jun 2012 : 03:29:41 AM Most 8s are pretty tame and jovial and fun most of the time - I'm in Italy right now, had a lot of fun with two sexual 8s at a dance party- lust is all about amping it up. The difference between partying with a drunk iron man vs a drunk Thor.
Banner and Hulk have different core types - I feel the 9 thing, I want him to be 9 too - it would be nice and tidy. But there is head energy bleeding out of him as Banner, albeit with a 9 fix. .
Yeah. More of the movie is filtering back to me (just saw it) ... and I can see what you mean.
I guess the subduedness of his 8 aggression could be soc/sp 8w9 ... though that is the same as ... no, I won't say it.
I guess 'healthy' so 8 could be right.
Orpheus
Posted - 06 Jun 2012 : 03:06:47 AM
quote:Originally posted by thomg
Banner and Hulk have different core types - I feel the 9 thing, I want him to be 9 too - it would be nice and tidy. But there is head energy bleeding out of him as Banner, albeit with a 9 fix. .
Posted - 06 Jun 2012 : 02:16:20 AM Iron Man - sx/so 7w8 (textbook) - 3w2 - 9w8
Banner and Hulk have different core types - sp/sx 9w1 - 5w6 - 2w1 (Hulk), sp/sx 5w6 - 9w1 - 2w1 Banner, tritype 9w1/5w6- 5w6/9w1 - 2w1. I feel the 9 thing, I want him to be 9 too - it would be nice and tidy. But there is head energy bleeding out of him as Banner, albeit with a 9 fix.
Loki - sx/sp 4w5 - 6w7 - 8w7 ... 478 just seems too volatile, and in the movie at least, head type seems 6. Double w7 in fixes goes some way to activating the archetypal 7 energy of Loki. I can see 4w3 too, in terms of vibe (not heavy enough for 4w5), but I see w5 in the power thing and the 'this is the way the world is' reductionism of 5.
Thor - so/sp 1w9 - 7w8 - 3w2. Responsible, obedient to parents, bringing Loki to justice, wants to do the right thing, 'feminine' gut energy with a concern for justice despite being a god.
Captain America - sp/so 3w2 - 1w9 - 6w5 going through a mid-life (post-life?) crisis after being the golden boy ... can't calibrate his image and is image-less in the movie because 3's construct image through people but he is a fish out of water ... but I can see soc/sp 1w9 - 3 - 6 as well. He had a kind of flinty sp stoicism thing going, and if sp then hard to see him as sp 1.
Black Widow. So/sx 8w9 - 6w7 - 3w4. Character in script seems 8 with a lot of 3 competence ... but something about Johannsen seems to turn it very 6-ish so I can see 6 core too.
Hawkeye - sp/sx 7w6 - 3w4 - 9w8.
Ridiculous to tritype, admittedly, but no more ridiculous than trying to type at all.
chemical_art
Posted - 31 May 2012 : 4:48:29 PM Saw this today.
Very fun to watch.
For Banner, definite 9 vibes. When he said "I don't want to think it [deceit], I just want to get this job done." I knew he was 9. Only a 9 could understand the need and desire to say such a thing.
Only other one I could think of was of Captian America as a 1w9. Something deep, deep within me has always resonated with him. I always say Batman is my favorite hero. In the Marvel universe, C.A. is my current favorite. Something deep within me resonates with him, yet I know I could not be him, for say. Like an idol you cannot match, nor would you try to. But in his movie where he saw a grenade and he jumped on it while the apparent big shot ran away resonated with me. I'd be the small man, but my courage and lack of care of myself is apparent. Likewise in this movie, while he lacked superpowers aside from his shield, and had the desire and ability to lead if needed, I resonated with that too. I'm not the best, but if pressed I'll take charge for the greater purpose.
Considering watching movie again. Too fun to watch the interactions of different flamboyant characters. Exceeded all my expectations.
Narc
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 2:56:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by whitelila In truth, I can not think of a better Movie than the 2012 Avengers and the Banner/Hulk character in it to illustrate and symbolize type 9 conflict.
That's what I thought too. The Banner/Hulk story to symbolize type 9.
In the Avengers movie, Banner seems very calm and self-effacing overall. Slow to anger. Tony Stark tries poking him to get a reaction but he gets nothing in response. I did not see a jittery paranoid reactive character, not in the slightest. Sixes are typically quick to respond with an emotional reaction to external stimuli.
The main 9w1 ego defenses are dissociation and repression of libidinal energy esp. rage. Unlike your average 9 in real life, exposure to gamma radiation causes Banner to break the typical 9 defenses and he explodes into the Hulk. A similar thing can happen to 9's if exposed to effective spiritual work. The rage is explosive in an adult 9 because it has been repressed by the ego since the early developmental years in which the ego was formed.
Orpheus
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 2:25:45 PM Yes Lila, we saw different.
Iron Man - film sx 7, comics social 3 hedonism/narcissism to finding his heart and working on a team, not being the center of attention. Immediately drawn to Banner, repelled by Cap. Inventor, can't stop from developing new armor, has a hidden idealist 'give the world clean energy' streak.
Those issues all point to 7.
Crooner
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 12:54:34 PM Haven't seen The Avengers yet. This is my assessment of Thor on a Chat Room thread.
quote:THOR Story of two brothers. Strong parallels with East of Eden.
Thor:
Three in the Heart Triad - embodies and exemplifies his Father’s warrior qualities - the apple does not fall far from the tree - fair haired, golden child
Seven in the Head Triad - jovial, winks playfully, loves a good laugh
Eight in the Gut Triad - attitude towards Frost Giants is: Our right to be here supersedes your right to be here
Social-first is what I pick up from Thor. Tough call between Social Three and Social Eight Was fighting the Frost Giants about revenge? Or was it about honor and glory? I’ll go with Social Eight.
Loki:
Four in the Heart Triad - feels that Thor is the Father’s favorite son - wants the Father’s love and would kill to be the favorite - competitive, jealous
Six in the Head Triad - cautious, prudent, has back-up plans - can show loyalty - can also be treacherous, like Anakin Skywalker
Eight in the Gut Triad - the Outlaw
Sexual Four - competitive and jealous
whitelila
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 12:51:47 PM We saw very different things. I saw a sp9 under stress. What you saw as vigilant 6, I saw as sp issues and avoidence. I saw a guy who Stark worked at "waking-up". I saw a guy who did not want to know about the secret plans and who told Stark to just do his work. A guy who wanted to go along to get along. A giving up of self and blocking. Strak wanted him to embrace his full potential. His total self, by "waking up" and not blocking both sides out from each other. A bringing together of the fragmented personality... which he did in the end.
Orpheus
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:53:11 AM That wasnt my perception at all. I saw banner as vigilant against that which might set him off, searching for something stable and unable to find it, unlike 9s who are too stable. Banner stayed on the move, being a doctor in India and traveling around, trying to find peace ( and finding some in service, pretty 6y, but still not allowing all part of himself to come online to that end). But I think his story has resonance for 6s and 9s.
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:27:38 AM Banner was passive and did numb out. It was how he controlled the Hulk. Banner just wanted to work on what they gave him and did not want to know more. Stark had to force reality on him, when banner started to "wake-up" to what was really going on, the Hulk started breaking through the fog. When 9's are at average health they can become insecure and nervous like a 6. "The Meaning of the Arrows (in brief) When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), complacent Nines suddenly become anxious and worried at Six." That is some basic enneagram 101. The larger picture outside the very minor behaviors of anxiety when under stress puts banner from the 2012 Advengers as a text book 9.
One of the reasons 9's resist "waking-up" is because doing so forces them to confront all the anger they have suppressed.
In truth, I can not think of a better Movie than the 2012 Avengers and the Banner/Hulk character in it to illustrate and symbolize type 9 conflict.
Orpheus
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:05:45 AM If banner was heavy, slow, passive, numb, ect he'd be a 9 but he was jittery, high strung and ultimately needed assurance that he was ok as Hulk by the team and that janitor guy.
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 08:06:12 AM I can see Captain America as a social 1/9 with a 3 and 6 fix. In fact, that is perfect and I agree.
Banner in the Avengers (Film 2012) is a clear sp9. "I have a secret, I'm always angry!" Ripping the mask off the humble 'go along to get along' meek nice guy. intp 9's can seem 5w66w5 ish, but banner in this film was such an obvious sp9.
Old TV banner was a social first phobic 6w5.
Orpheus
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 06:56:31 AM I'm a big comic fan, always preferred x-men but I loved this movie and saw it in IMAX 3d (first time ) with Russ and some friends at midnight. When I get on a real computer I'll post a pic of me in my paper mâché Loki helmet.
Captain America - social 1/9 doing the right thing, guilt, even when scrawny he was not afraid to stand up for what was right, more motivated by his gut sense of right and wrong than loyalty. Has too much 'knowing' to be a 6, not imagey enough to be a 3 Scolding Stark. Resistant to new ways.
Iron Man - film sx 7, comics social 3 hedonism/narcissism to finding his heart and working on a team, not being the center of attention. Immediately drawn to Banner, repelled by Cap. Inventor, can't stop from developing new armor, has a hidden idealist 'give the world clean energy' streak.
Thor - clear social 8 " I am protector of this realm!" from cocky and arrogant to 2 like self appointed protection of Midgard.
Banner - 6/5 - hulk representing the power/instinct/energy/ that seems threatening to 6 which they learn is actually a gift and not. Wants to fit in, self depricating humor, nervous energy, research scientist.
Loki - sx 4/3 envy of Thor, competition for and hatred against Odins love. Dramatic and narcissistic need to be acknowledged as significant and better. Goes darker in this , thinks hes seen how things 'really are' after dealing with the darkness of Thanos.
Black Widow - sx 6 femme fatale secret agent and spy who is self protected who only really trusts Hawkeye. Manipulated when younger, cynical about others agendas, calculated, but has to step out of shadows when compromised by Loki. Possibly 8 with focus on autonomy and wounding at young age but seems too calculated rather than impulsive and gut.
Hawkeye - sp/sx 7/8 cocky and confident , but likes to keep distance and be uninvolved. Good at pattern recognition and synthesizing data quickly.
Strong, confident, shrewd, physical. Uses cunning and strength to intimidate and out maneuver her opponents. She's not in the cast simply to be a romantic foil or eye candy. She's there to fight.
enneathing
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 04:07:34 AM
quote:Black Widow 8w7
Narc
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 03:45:04 AM Revisions and Updates
Captain America 6w7 the emphasis is on doing, not thinking. Uses friendliness. He seems 3ish in many ways but he does not have the self-confidence, charm, poise and calculation of a 3.
The Hulk 9w1 the emphasis is on self control and congeniality
Thor 3w2 Pride & Glory
Iron Man 7w8 Unabashed show-off but unlike a 3 he is not ashamed to offend. A 3 would measure, moderate and adapt his behavior in order to pander to the desires of the other. Tony Stark does not do this. He doesn't care and does not modulate himself in the way a 3 does.
Black Widow 8w7
Loki Either wing could fit although his vampish appearance indicates 4w5. The dynamic between Loki and Thor reminds me of the dynamic between James Dean and his "perfect" brother in the film East of Eden.
Nick Fury?
Crimson
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 02:39:34 AM Thor seems to be a ONE to me. A big part is his seriousness in duty.
whitelila
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 12:16:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by jevoudrais
Tony Stark is a 7. In the comics, he is a 7, RBJ is a 7...Tony Stark is a 7. The alcoholism/playboy thing...7w8.
agreed. And 7's can be complete narcissist.
4wants8
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 12:00:02 AM I had Tony Stark as a counterphobic 6w7 or a really hyper 7. I spent the whole film thinking, "Dude - CALM DOWN." Something about that particular kind of wounded-up-ed-ness seemed not 7-ish sometimes. Like too devoid of 7 insousiance. I think that he visibly tries way too hard to be a 3.
"We are the sum of all the people we’ve ever met."
jevoudrais
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 11:59:46 PM Tony Stark is a 7. In the comics, he is a 7, RBJ is a 7...Tony Stark is a 7. The alcoholism/playboy thing...7w8.
Crimson
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 10:23:33 PM Tony Stark is a THREE. He's too show offy to be a SEVEN.
whitelila
Posted - 22 May 2012 : 9:59:12 PM I find 6w5's darker than Captain America. A 6w5 would be more of an antihero, imo.
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