| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lenny306 |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 10:14:27 PM
Hi, I respectfully ask that persons put in parenthesis what the meaning of what they are saying is (ex. soc. and sp) as I am trying to learn as much as I can in a short period of time and I find so much confusing on here, even though I have three Enneagram books here at home. Realize that a new person to the enneagram may not understand exactly what you are talking about and please put it in laymans language. As a side note, as a new person it seems there is quite a bit of rudeness between the members. Is it in fun? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Invicta |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 2:31:31 PM
Yep. Calcination.
 |
| sunny |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 1:22:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Invicta
the inmates run the asylum.
Coming here is like willingly dropping myself into Oz.
http://youtu.be/BxSkw3HdxfM
-----------------------
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| Invicta |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 1:12:37 PM
I do like this board better than my other haunt, because here the inmates run the asylum. Sometimes a person isn't prepared to have their sensibilities scathed away, or to at least see the value in that.
That's when things get good. |
| dnimon |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 05:13:46 AM
pretty much
If you're going to tell people the truth, be funny or they'll kill you.
- Billy Wilder
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| Invicta |
Posted - 24 Jun 2012 : 1:23:05 PM
This thread turned into a reflective microcosm of board dynamics. Condensed for the New Person's ease.
As for why people seem to jab at each other, while the jabbed respond theatrically: fixation is ugly. In off-board conversations with inevitably fixated people, you'll get almost nothing but ego-talk. It's horrifying and grotesque at times. But what to do? People with no knowledge of fixation are not going to hear your requests to speak plainly and without fixation. They'll just go on, digging deeper into sleep.
Fixation is a defense against vulnerability. A lie to cover painful honesty, honesty that is usually trampled by the fixations of others in non-enneagram, and on here, in more targeted enneagram contexts. So you get your sensitivity and reactivity.
Put these factors together, and you have the EIDB. "Rudeness" and all. |
| thomg |
Posted - 22 Jun 2012 : 12:44:36 AM
"You're making me do it again?"
"There must be some kind of mistake. Send me back."
"This place stinks. You can't be serious. And I have to breathe to boot?"
"Pleasure, stat!" |
| dfgray44 |
Posted - 22 Jun 2012 : 12:22:38 AM
"Turn down those garish fluorescent lights."
"Don't spank me again."
"Don't cut off my foreskin."
"Don't pull me out of that lovely warm water world, ever again, ya bastards."
"If things are gonna be this bad here, at least gimme a freakin' nipple."
Requests from a New Person
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| shakti |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 7:15:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kate
What was the point of that?
That I happen to see value in both approaches. |
| whitelila |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 1:13:12 PM
quote:
There are several ways to look at this and TA could be one way to gain insight into communication styles.
from http://www.businessballs.com/transact.htm
Thanks for that link. interesting! |
| whitelila |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 1:06:54 PM
quote:
Her concerns are likely genuine. Her approach may not get her what she would like to see happen (in terms of change) though and there may be some unanticipated fallout, too (on account of the communication style that you point out of taking a superego position, in that it may automatically elicit resistance in some of us). Perhaps she will gain something from the courage to join in though.
That super ego persona on the threads she created is the kind of "voice" that will elicit resistance, indeed, by some of us. On this thread her polite and impersonal - (mixed with what seems like an outrageous request asking everyone on the board to add additional information in parenthesis each and everytime they use enneagram slang) just in case Lenny306 is reading, some new person who is not even a tiny bit established, yeah, she will not get her needs met is an astute assumption. The search function was a great idea by bear.. seeing how Lenny306 said she was "trying to learn as much as I can in a short period of time" about the enneagram.
In other words. she can do her own homework instead of asking everyone on the board to bend to her personal needs.
Now she knows how to do it. Smart idea by bear. |
| Kate |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 07:27:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by shakti
A more general request asking people to alter their posting habits (which is how I read the first line of the opening post) may not result in any actual change by others who post. This could be disappointing to her, though there's no harm in asking.
What I get from this is;
1) Don't expect people to listen.
2) Rest assured, you haven't done any harm.
quote:
Originally posted by shakti
If she doesn't follow something asking as she did here and searching are both great ways to learn.
Reiterating that there are two ways to get information.
What was the point of that?
|
| shakti |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 07:11:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by whitelila
removing since you removed your post
Her concerns are likely genuine. Her approach may not get her what she would like to see happen (in terms of change) though and there may be some unanticipated fallout, too (on account of the communication style that you point out of taking a superego position, in that it may automatically elicit resistance in some of us). Perhaps she will gain something from the courage to join in though. 
There are several ways to look at this and TA could be one way to gain insight into communication styles.
from http://www.businessballs.com/transact.htm
early transactional analysis theory and model
In the 1950's Eric Berne began to develop his theories of Transactional Analysis. He said that verbal communication, particularly face to face, is at the centre of human social relationships and psychoanalysis.
His starting-point was that when two people encounter each other, one of them will speak to the other. This he called the Transaction Stimulus. The reaction from the other person he called the Transaction Response.
The person sending the Stimulus is called the Agent. The person who responds is called the Respondent.
Transactional Analysis became the method of examining the transaction wherein: 'I do something to you, and you do something back'.
Berne also said that each person is made up of three alter ego states:
Parent
Adult
Child
These terms have different definitions than in normal language.
Parent
This is our ingrained voice of authority, absorbed conditioning, learning and attitudes from when we were young. We were conditioned by our real parents, teachers, older people, next door neighbours, aunts and uncles, Father Christmas and Jack Frost. Our Parent is made up of a huge number of hidden and overt recorded playbacks. Typically embodied by phrases and attitudes starting with 'how to', 'under no circumstances', 'always' and 'never forget', 'don't lie, cheat, steal', etc, etc. Our parent is formed by external events and influences upon us as we grow through early childhood. We can change it, but this is easier said than done.
Child
Our internal reaction and feelings to external events form the 'Child'. This is the seeing, hearing, feeling, and emotional body of data within each of us. When anger or despair dominates reason, the Child is in control. Like our Parent we can change it, but it is no easier.
Adult
Our 'Adult' is our ability to think and determine action for ourselves, based on received data. The adult in us begins to form at around ten months old, and is the means by which we keep our Parent and Child under control. If we are to change our Parent or Child we must do so through our adult.
In other words:
Parent is our 'Taught' concept of life
Adult is our 'Thought' concept of life
Child is our 'Felt' concept of life
When we communicate we are doing so from one of our own alter ego states, our Parent, Adult or Child. Our feelings at the time determine which one we use, and at any time something can trigger a shift from one state to another. When we respond, we are also doing this from one of the three states, and it is in the analysis of these stimuli and responses that the essence of Transactional Analysis lies. See the poem by Philip Larkin about how parental conditioning affects children and their behaviour into adulthood. And for an uplifting antidote see the lovely Thich Nhat Hanh quote. These are all excellent illustrations of the effect and implications of parental conditioning in the context of Transactional Analysis.
At the core of Berne's theory is the rule that effective transactions (ie successful communications) must be complementary. They must go back from the receiving ego state to the sending ego state. For example, if the stimulus is Parent to Child, the response must be Child to Parent, or the transaction is 'crossed', and there will be a problem between sender and receiver.
If a crossed transaction occurs, there is an ineffective communication. Worse still either or both parties will be upset. In order for the relationship to continue smoothly the agent or the respondent must rescue the situation with a complementary transaction.
In serious break-downs, there is no chance of immediately resuming a discussion about the original subject matter. Attention is focused on the relationship. The discussion can only continue constructively when and if the relationship is mended.
Here are some simple clues as to the ego state sending the signal. You will be able to see these clearly in others, and in yourself:
Parent
Physical - angry or impatient body-language and expressions, finger-pointing, patronising gestures,
Verbal - always, never, for once and for all, judgmental words, critical words, patronising language, posturing language.
N.B. beware of cultural differences in body-language or emphases that appear 'Parental'.
Child
Physical - emotionally sad expressions, despair, temper tantrums, whining voice, rolling eyes, shrugging shoulders, teasing, delight, laughter, speaking behind hand, raising hand to speak, squirming and giggling.
Verbal - baby talk, I wish, I dunno, I want, I'm gonna, I don't care, oh no, not again, things never go right for me, worst day of my life, bigger, biggest, best, many superlatives, words to impress.
Adult
Physical - attentive, interested, straight-forward, tilted head, non-threatening and non-threatened.
Verbal - why, what, how, who, where and when, how much, in what way, comparative expressions, reasoned statements, true, false, probably, possibly, I think, I realise, I see, I believe, in my opinion.
And remember, when you are trying to identify ego states: words are only part of the story.
To analyse a transaction you need to see and feel what is being said as well.
Only 7% of meaning is in the words spoken.
38% of meaning is paralinguistic (the way that the words are said).
55% is in facial expression. (source: Albert Mehrabian - more info)
There is no general rule as to the effectiveness of any ego state in any given situation (some people get results by being dictatorial (Parent to Child), or by having temper tantrums, (Child to Parent), but for a balanced approach to life, Adult to Adult is generally recommended.
Transactional Analysis is effectively a language within a language; a language of true meaning, feeling and motive. It can help you in every situation, firstly through being able to understand more clearly what is going on, and secondly, by virtue of this knowledge, we give ourselves choices of what ego states to adopt, which signals to send, and where to send them. This enables us to make the most of all our communications and therefore create, develop and maintain better relationships.
modern transactional analysis.
[]
Significantly, the original three Parent Adult Child components were sub-divided to form a new seven element model, principally during the 1980's by Wagner, Joines and Mountain. This established Controlling and Nurturing aspects of the Parent mode, each with positive and negative aspects, and the Adapted and Free aspects of the Child mode, again each with positive an negative aspects, which essentially gives us the model to which most TA practitioners refer today:
parent
Parent is now commonly represented as a circle with four quadrants:
Nurturing - Nurturing (positive) and Spoiling (negative).
Controlling - Structuring (positive) and Critical (negative).
adult
Adult remains as a single entity, representing an 'accounting' function or mode, which can draw on the resources of both Parent and Child.
child
Child is now commonly represented as circle with four quadrants:
Adapted - Co-operative (positive) and Compliant/Resistant (negative).
Free - Spontaneous (positive) and Immature (negative).
Where previously Transactional Analysis suggested that effective communications were complementary (response echoing the path of the stimulus), and better still complementary adult to adult, the modern interpretation suggests that effective communications and relationships are based on complementary transactions to and from positive quadrants, and also, still, adult to adult. Stimulii and responses can come from any (or some) of these seven ego states, to any or some of the respondent's seven ego states. |
| shakti |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 05:10:34 AM
A more general request asking people to alter their posting habits (which is how I read the first line of the opening post) may not result in any actual change by others who post. This could be disappointing to her, though there's no harm in asking.
If she doesn't follow something asking as she did here and searching are both great ways to learn.
|
| Kate |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 04:45:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bear
Hi Lenny - you might have better luck either directly asking when you see stuff you don't understand
For a newcomer, she did ask. And let's not overlook the importance of that.
Sending her off on search function, might be off-putting on a personal note to someone trying to make a connection and learn.
|
| blackLight |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 6:22:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny306
Hi, I respectfully ask that persons put in parenthesis what the meaning of what they are saying is (ex. soc. and sp) as I am trying to learn as much as I can in a short period of time and I find so much confusing on here, even though I have three Enneagram books here at home. Realize that a new person to the enneagram may not understand exactly what you are talking about and please put it in laymans language. As a side note, as a new person it seems there is quite a bit of rudeness between the members. Is it in fun?
Hi Lenny - you might have better luck either directly asking when you see stuff you don't understand, and/or using the search function to find more on the topic (upper right hand corner brings you to menu).
|
| jevoudrais |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 4:10:19 PM
Awww, we're just havin' a good time, Fat Albert!
 |
| rockthrower |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 07:12:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJH7q1UOJ-A
Way down there, it's raining dust, And snakes police the roads,
And a truck weighed down with misery, stops and unloads,
And 18 broken passenger, their blood as thick as mud,
Beg for water for anything, the driver waves good luck
The sun's been frying lizards, hidden under rocks,
And now it fries the refugee, and turns their brains to chalk
Eighteen men and women, and one brand new pair of shoes,
And the driver's back at the border, what's he got to lose
The night wind screams, across the freezing ground,
There's no one left to tremble, or to fear for him now.
Their bones and scattered, drifting like the snow,
That falls each night and settles, all around his soul,
All around his soul
Relating Triad
1. Way down there, "A view from were from were we came -1&6/ SIGLE OCTAVE."
2. it's raining dust, "Time and the final state for the cosmos as it exists as static microwaves."
3. And snakes police the roads, The "Id" of Man.
4. And a truck weighed down with misery, "Entity/ mortal self"
5. stops and unloads, "Emanating Higher Conciseness" , "Projects/ reactive nature"
6. And 18 broken passenger, "The 18 sub types innate within, An un unified -hole state."
7. their blood as thick as mud, "Lower levels of Development."
8. the driver, "Essence" within Man "The Hole Sun Absolute"
9. waves good luck, "Observer within/ witness"
Feeling Triad
1. The sun's been frying lizards, "Material host/ evolving Man"
2. hidden under rocks, "within/ separated Unity"
3. And now it fries the refugee, "Self disconected/ Holy Sun Absolute."
4. And now it fries the refugee, "Mortal struggle/ Identity."
5. and turns their brains to chalk, "Spiritual Decay"
6. Eighteen men and women, "Feminine and masculine Duality".
7. and one brand new pair of shoes, "Life"
8. And the driver's back at the border, "Cosmic Boundary"
9. what's he got to lose, "?" -"THE UNIVERSE"
Thinking Triad
1. The night wind screams, "Our COMMON FATHER ........ ENDLESS"
2. across the freezing ground, "Eternal space"
3. There's no one left to tremble, "Time's relationship with matter /energy/ mass has ended"
4. or to fear for him now. "matter/ energy/ mass has ended"
5. Their bones and scattered, "Cosmic Radiation"
6. drifting like the snow, "Time/ Total System"
7. That falls each night and settles, "Consciousness"
8. all around his soul, One of Two Directions -the circle/ ETERNAL-UNCHANGING
9. All around his soul, One of Two Directions -the Circle/ THE ABSOLUTE |
| skyboy |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 04:01:37 AM
quote:
It says a lot that you figured it out though. It holds true in real life too, but maybe more subtlety.
The thing of it is, not all people share the same humour.
LOL yes ! And there are people from different cultures here.
Sometimes, I'm tempted to write in my message : "Please, get prepared, relax, the next sentence is going to be ironic".
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| whitelila |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 12:49:48 AM
lol
I know you don't mean me harm. I'm just a cute little peepee rabbit. |
| Kate |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 12:14:34 AM
bitch no choice
this only starts the wheel going
alas i jest
yesh i am a performer
i could be the girl on the wheel turning with knives
and i mean you no harm lila..you just pee me off sometimes...welcome to my family 
|
| whitelila |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 12:07:40 AM
lol
Well, you know.. one girls dog is anothers Adonis.
In my world you are a famous stage performer who is a brilliant dresser. So, you have your pick, forever and always. |
| Kate |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 12:01:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by whitelila
You have no say in my world. Now you are blowing my dog. lol
lmao
as if i want to 
keep imagining in your bubble...whatever pops your cork
do i get a say on the breed at least?
|
| whitelila |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 11:54:48 PM
You have no say in my world. Now you are blowing my dog. lol |
| Kate |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 11:52:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by whitelila
Anyone who says 'uhm' can suck their own toes.
Next.
|
| whitelila |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 11:10:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by skyboy
Lila quote:
They see each other on this form almost like talking characters in a book and they embellish those characters with their own imaginations often, not knowing they are doing so.
I may sound completely naive, but I just realized what you say one week ago. 
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451)
It says a lot that you figured it out though. It holds true in real life too, but maybe more subtlety.
The thing of it is, not all people share the same humor.
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