| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rickstone |
Posted - 06 Jul 2012 : 10:59:13 PM
Yikes
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 7:33:18 PM
Ok thanks.
It's just I'm retyping a few people around me from 7, 6 or 4 to 2. Makes me see different sides of type 2, especially the social lasts. So I thought of your thread...
Actually when I'm focused on a type I tend to see it everywhere. Next week, if I spend time on type 3, you'll be a 3, as well as my neighbour and all the people down the street...
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 11:12:38 AM
For some reason, I thought of 2 about you. I don't feel a clear 7 nor a clear 4.. It's only a possibility, but 2 could match several things you said :
- pride (can be confused with 7's assertiveness especially with a 3 wing or 4's defended self-image)
- less dark than 4, but some real influence from type 4 (DOI)
Have you considered type 2 about you ?
Note: I don't know type 2 well for the moment, I'm just trying
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 28 Jul 2012 : 03:43:30 AM
Thanks for sharing all this Rickstone.
This seems compatible with type 4.
It is difficult to find one's type anyway. In the first weeks of studying my first book, the only types I could rule out for myself were 8,9,7 and 3. I didn't identify with 4 much because the book described rather a sexual 4. I had a 5ish persona because I was a mathematician and spending time with a maths researcher friend (who is really an sp5 but even being sure of his type took me more than one year). I would identify with 2 a lot. I'm a compulsive rescuer and attracted by the underdogs, hobos, people showing their pain... Only after a while the 4>2 disintegration started to become clearer. And while I'm writing on this board to help some find their type, I clearly over-activate fixation 2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance in the typing process of the people, while I have the sense the accuracy of the feedback I can give is actually very limited because :
- i only know the E for a about 2 or 3 years, my intuition is not mature
- it's extremely difficult without the presence of the person :
-> observing someone's type often happens in the "empty spaces", when the superego relaxes and the ego can have more spontaneous ways of expression
-> the sensation coming from the person is very important. An intellectual 9 can look like a 5, but with a 5 you SEE the muscle in the brain in real time who is always here and controlling everything. Their intense concentration never relaxes.
About competition I tried to write something yesterday, but my feelings started to explode, my heart beating faster and my mind getting upside down. It's too painful to reveal for the moment. All I can say is it's stubbly in everything, related with disdain and a pain in the ass, like what you say about shame. I never felt in a competition with my close friends. It would destroy our friendship. Competition is hatred, self-hatred and disdain. What I love and need with my friends is especially feeling there is NO competition at all. Otherwise I feel my feelings about them are mixed and this is a torture. It sometimes happen to play a game for fun with a friend like "who's gonna win ?", but this has nothing to do with fixation 4's competition. But I can't say what it really is for the moment. It's too much of a mess. And anyway this would only have a validity for my own experience of it which might not be very helpful if you are a sx4.
I can't give any further feedback for the moment. All the best with your adventure in the enneagram 
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 27 Jul 2012 : 6:00:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
You really just sound social last to me. Social last 7's can have their moments of being loud and boisterous, and their moments of being quiet and withdrawn.
I don't remember if you said that in this thread but I just realized many social last, mainly sx/sp look like withdrawn types.
I knew a sx/sp 2 who was very withdrawn. He tested as 5 on a test, thought he was a 9 for a while (he clearly was not), then 6... Actually I thought of 2 after ruling out 4 about him, seeing his ego defences, pride and his feelings under stress penetrate me to try to control me, but his attitude of staying alone in his room most of the time seemed to match a withdrawn type or 6w5. He told that he even forced himself to go out, that it was very difficult for him to meet people... he could spend time alone being "lost in his feelings" like a 4... and he was avoidant about taking part in a group. Yet, he used this strategy to exist socially : getting "power" on a person socially active to introduce him to other people. And then he would start being really 2ish : taking care of people, making them feel comfortable... the "hostess" thing.
Just getting close to a so/sp 2. Sounds like the opposite : a man a social network, socially over-confident, everything but withdrawn.
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 27 Jul 2012 : 02:45:25 AM
Ok for SO last. If 4, can't be sp/sx. Only sx/sp.
quote:
I have a hard time with criticism, i always take it too personally.
7s have the hardest time with criticism of all types. It shakes them a lot. It's like they don't expect criticism, like they are not prepared to it. A bit like 3s, 4s see criticism for self-improving to a great degree without being so much destabilized. They criticize themselves a lot and they are quite ok with it. Taking things personally of 4s is not being over reactive to criticism. It is a tendency to feel personally things COMPLETELY unrelated to them as a constant flow when under stress. Like a dark sticky poison.
I still feel you more 7ish. I need time to reply to the rest of your message. Explaining 4 and competition won't be easy.
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| Desdemona |
Posted - 25 Jul 2012 : 8:12:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by skyboy
7 : intensity/peak seeking to wash anxiety and negatives mind/emotional states away. Like trying to replace anxiety by stimulation and thinking something better is around the corner. It works to some degree, but finally anxiety can grow worse if constantly avoided leading to states that can look like melancholia
Hmm...I think this is partially correct, but you leave out the fact that 7's do seek intensity to heighten their emotional mood/experience, too, rather than always simply to escape anxiety and negatives. And I wouldn't say our melancholy moods always stem from avoiding anxiety, either. I certainly do have anxiety centered around certain ideas - like the possibility that I'll avoidantly screw around so much in life I'll waste every drop of my talent and potential I ever had; or the idea that I'll never get anything good out of life, or anything I want; the idea of being confined/restricted/controlled....those are biggies for me, and melancholy can result from some of those ideas (not so much the last one), but I wouldn't say melancholy results from my avoiding those ideas and the anxiety building up. It usually stems from some big blow in one of those areas I mentioned. And I do definitely have more anxiety centered around sx issues than anything else, so a huge blow in my sx area will product instant internal panic, leading to a deep melancholy. Also, I'll sometimes feel melancholy without any obvious provocation.
quote:
quote:
redefining my past
I insisted on this because I do that a lot. It's like re-creating self-definition by analysing the past. And I remember a painful argumentation with a 7w6 lover (probably a 3 fixer) because she hated my doing this.
When I first read "redefining my past", I took it as pretending the past had been different or something, rather than constantly analyzing it. One of my most annoying personal traits is my obsessive personal analysis, both in the present and the past. I will literally analyze myself and other people crazy, not in a sixish, questioning sort of way, but just over-analyzing emotions and reactions.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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| Desdemona |
Posted - 25 Jul 2012 : 7:34:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
In a grey colored world, not black, not white, just a grey, dull, pathetic and schizoid world.
I feel trapped by that sometimes. It's like an existential hopelessnes.
I need to have some hope, some thrill, some love, some tragedy, idk, something that gets me away of that disociation.
This seems sevenish to me. In any case, we 7's can know the sort of "grey colored world" you talk about, more often at the less healthy end of the spectrum. Several months ago I posted something about relating to the song "Grey Street", where "all the colors mix together, to grey". Needing to have some hope, thrill, love, tragedy that might lift you out of it....that seems very sevenish, imo.
quote:
Also incompetency and weakness, lacking, and no fun. Those are shame related too.
This strikes me as a sevenish sort of shame as well, more than fourish.
quote:
It's vague to put it shortly. Shame scares me, it's a pain in the ass, i don't even like that word, not even in my native lenguage.
This says 7 over 4 very loudly to me, though I'm still not saying that's what you are, just discussing parts of what you've said here.
quote:
I certainly withdraw from people, i'm the quiet one irl, don't know if exceptionally quiet, but i certainly don't relate too much with people.
You really just sound social last to me. Social last 7's can have their moments of being loud and boisterous, and their moments of being quiet and withdrawn. They can even go through phases of life one way, then go through phases the other way, from what I've seen. I don't think a lot of people realize that some 7's can come across as quiet and withdrawn at times. Personally speaking, I become that way when I'm not connecting with anyone around me, I'll withdraw into my own head. It can come when we're "fiving out", too, for whatever reason. I feel that I both integrate and disintegrate to 5, though I've considered the possibility that it's simply the case that when I'm feeling low, I'll want to be alone, and when I'm alone, I'm at my security point and get fivish. If I'm going to my security point at a low level of health, it can look a lot like disintegrating to 5, rather than integrating there.
quote:
I'd say my life was defined by escape and then come back. My need to enter into the chaos of the world is as high as my desire to retire to the woods and hermitize myself.
I'm thirsty for life there's a huge lust and adventurous component in myself. But like i said there's a big component of reservedness too.
I understand what you mean, there are lots of contradictions in my personality too, and I don't feel I fit so neatly into the types (if that isn't obvious by what I've already said). What you said above could probably fit for either 7 or 4.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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| skyboy |
Posted - 25 Jul 2012 : 11:36:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
Usually in the test i take, 5 comes as one of the highest.
And is not so out of the blue. I'm certainly not a 5, but i surely have a connection with 5. If it's a wing (or a shadow wing) or a point of integration, well, that's the question.
Yes you're not a 5. And yes, that's the question. Or maybe it's "to be or not to be ?", I'm not sure :-)
quote:
Initially when i read the E descriptions, i found a certain aversion to type 5, or that "into the void" that usually correlates with 5.
I thought for a little that i could be one, because when i read the description i was a little horrified by the idea of emptiness. So that combined with some 5-like behaviours, gave me a wrong idea of my type.
Now that i think about it, i'm not that far from E5 either. I even identify a little with the unhealthy states of that type. And descriptors like solitary, researcher and annoyingly unmaterialistic apply to me. (All of this are N descriptors too)
Very interesting. About the idea that you could be a "solitary, researcher and annoyingly unmaterialistic" what would come first ? A sense of shame/self-hatred because this would give you the label of "alienated nerd" to stick on your forehead and everybody would laugh at you (4) or a sense of fear of being in this state because it connects you to your inner emptiness, pain, unknowing and potential incompetency/limits (7) ?
Especially in the SP/SO domain (competence, concrete realizations, diplomas/knowledge, finance, work, worldly stuff...) of our modern culture, 7s, 5s and 4s have a different relationship to self :
7s: Let's move forward, I'll learn anything I need on the go. This makes type 7 more assertive and a tendency to not take time to sit with their weaknesses and sometimes over-estimate their abilities. Contrary to what I used to believe, 3s usually don't. 7s rarely see that they do. They sometimes don't see the "missing pieces" about their competence or abilities.
5s: I need to know everything BEFORE I go to the world. Sense of fear of lacking abilities. This makes 5s alienated sometimes depressive, but when they go to the world they are over-comptetent because they have studied everything on their own. They already know everything. This is not especially agreeable to others to who they may appear arrogant, robotic or close-minded : "since I already know, why talk to others except to tell how much they don't know ?".
4s: Sense of shame and judgement based on elitist criteria. Gives the aristocratic touch to 4w3s, self-undermining strange touch to 4w5s. More attracted to aesthetics anyway, no matter the stacking.
Schematically :
7: Don't take so much time to fix their unknowing because attracted to move towards the world and take the part of life they want.
5: So deeply afraid of lacking competence that they usually never do. But always socially a little alienated.
4: There is always better than me, and this is hard to live with it. Can lead to be alienated as well.
Sorry to mainly talk about the SP/SO stuff, it's just the one I know the best. Actually it's your talking about "incompetency" that struck me, and this was the cause of these questions in my head. Your being SP/SO does not seem impossible anyway...
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 24 Jul 2012 : 02:07:20 AM
quote:
Skyboy, i'll put my impressions of your post tomorrow, i have to go to sleep right now 
No hurry. I just woke up. Jet lag on the board :-)
quote:
"Shame sucks, because i want too much, shame it's like a wall where my desires clash"
Shame drives me to a worldview like Ka[blocked]a's writtings, like the limbo. In a grey colored world, not black, not white, just a grey, dull, pathetic and schizoid world.
I feel trapped by that sometimes. It's like an existential hopelessnes.
I need to have some hope, some thrill, some love, some tragedy, idk, something that gets me away of that disociation.
Also incompetency and weakness, lacking, and no fun. Those are shame related too.
Saying that i carry shame on a sleeve all the time would be precipitated. I don't want to go further, because in shame matters i contradict myself.
It's vague to put it shortly. Shame scares me, it's a pain in the ass, i don't even like that word, not even in my native language.
In blue : much about your relationship to point 5. The sometimes dull nihilism of 5s, and sense of emptiness it carries, is something I don't feel good about. Yet I have a lot of it by myself. It's not a shadow of mine. I can go far into this by myself. But I'm a 5-winger and (almost certainly) a 5-fixer.
For the first time, this paragraph strikes as your being much more 7ish... What's in bold makes me think of 7 a lot. I may explain my sensation about 7s and point 5 and why you make me think of being a 7 now in a next post.
You're an interesting one Rickstone
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| skyboy |
Posted - 24 Jul 2012 : 01:35:31 AM
I like what you say Desdemona. Strangely, I like these adventures in the fines lines between types and persons. I like it even more because I have no doubt of your being a core 7 (and a 4 fixer) and my being a core 4.
I agree with what you say that intensity seeking is compulsive and automatic in both types 4 and 7. I would describe it roughly like it :
7 : intensity/peak seeking to wash anxiety and negatives mind/emotional states away. Like trying to replace anxiety by stimulation and thinking something better is around the corner. It works to some degree, but finally anxiety can grow worse if constantly avoided leading to states that can look like melancholia
4 : creating emotional intensity as thoughts move, because some parts of self and existence are subconsciously considered as having great value, some deserving hatred. This being intensified more or less willingly by the person. Also explains the intensity related to introjection: "am i this, am I that ?" is like walking on a mine field.
quote:
redefining my past
I insisted on this because I do that a lot. It's like re-creating self-definition by analysing the past. And I remember a painful argumentation with a 7w6 lover (probably a 3 fixer) because she hated my doing this. Actually our reciprocal infatuation lead us to expect impossible things from the other, and we went into an extreme interpersonal control about it. The reasons why she hated my doing this are still unclear to me. Anyway, it belongs to the past...
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| Desdemona |
Posted - 23 Jul 2012 : 7:54:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by skyboy
Needing time alone to recharge is introversion yes.
True, but some extroverts who are closer to the 50/50 percentage also need time alone to recharge. There are times when I feel my energy goes up and up, so that I'm more charged up at the end of the night than in the beginning....but there are also a lot of times social interaction drains me in a big way. Whatever else is going on, though, I always need time to myself, to keep my sanity. So, dunno what that means, as far as me and I/E. I've always wondered about it. I don't need to be around people all the time, for sure. I don't want to be around people all the time.
quote:
Muted and brooding could truly point at 4. I'm very much like that if I feel there is no way to find a connection with people around. It makes me sad or even moody, like I can't have a place in the hearts and mind of people who are around. Usually I'll withdraw and get back alone to my own interests.
When I'm not feeling any connection with the people around me, I retreat into my own head. Sometimes I'll even find a quiet spot away from everyone else, to hide out, if I don't really feel like being there and can't get away. Not that this means much in terms of what Rickstone's saying, I'm just sharing how it is with me. I think the lines between the types can be much more blurry than people often realize.
quote:
quote:
My intensity seeking is more involuntary and compulsive. I've been involved in quite intense and tragic times because of my constant craving and buffering feelings. When it comes to more positive intense experiences, they feel pseudo-mystical to me, it's hard to explain it, but is like pure magic.
I relate a lot. I have written some texts in the magical moments. If I read them, I would type myself as a 7w6. I use "abandoned my men, adopted by gods" to describe this special 4ish mystical vibe.
I also relate to that completely, except I'm not so sure what is meant by "buffering" feelings. I view "buffering" as sort of blunting, but that doesn't make sense with the rest of the sentence. If we're talking about craving intense feelings and experiences, blunting them seems the opposite, so he must mean something different.
quote:
i'm always lost in my head (future, past, brooding about something, observing, thinking, redifining my past, drowning into my own thoughts, a song in my mind, a thing that i want to do... it's overwhelming).
This is very me too.
I dunno, it's threads like this that make me question my own type. Then I'll do a lot of questioning and answering people's questions and come back around to the view that I must be a 7.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
|
| skyboy |
Posted - 23 Jul 2012 : 03:23:43 AM
quote:
Another that you pointed skyboy is withdrawness. I'm quite introverted, not exactly whispy-like, but i need lots of time alone to recharge. I need craziness, i'm quite free spirited i push my boundaries, can't stay in one place or situation for too long, but i'm quite muted too and brooding irl.
Needing time alone to recharge is introversion yes. For the moment, I can't know if it's strictly related to types. Some E-authors say that 4s and 5s are introverts, 9 can be both but rather introverts, 7s are USUALLY extroverts. I'm VERY introverted. Free spirited is a word used for 7s, but would match a 4 or 5 almost the same.
Muted and brooding could truly point at 4. I'm very much like that if I feel there is no way to find a connection with people around. It makes me sad or even moody, like I can't have a place in the hearts and mind of people who are around. Usually I'll withdraw and get back alone to my own interests.
quote:
My intensity seeking is more involuntary and compulsive. I've been involved in quite intense and tragic times because of my constant craving and buffering feelings. When it comes to more positive intense experiences, they feel pseudo-mystical to me, it's hard to explain it, but is like pure magic.
I relate a lot. I have written some texts in the magical moments. If I read them, I would type myself as a 7w6. I use "abandoned my men, adopted by gods" to describe this special 4ish mystical vibe.
quote:
Maybe i didn't put it very well when i said "there's a look forward in me", i was a little confused. I'm not retracting of what i said, just i think the "future thinking" is not "what would happen later", or "What is the next thing to do", i think is more slow and situational, i'm never as prepared for the future as i'm drunk by the past. And this is very true.
The forward thinking is translated as a hard time functioning in the "now", i'm always lost in my head (future, past, brooding about something, observing, thinking, redifining my past, drowning into my own thoughts, a song in my mind, a thing that i want to do... it's overwhelming).
Very 4 to me. I related to everything in this paragraph.
quote:
I wouldn't label myself as a male "diva", but i expect a special reaction in people towards me. As i said earlier, i'm quite independent and tough, but i want special treatment, and i have a pampered-child demeanor, is inconcsious i think, i don't recognize it at first glance, in fact people like that drive me nuts now, but as a child i was this way, aggresively demanding attention (escaping my home, cry loudly, outburst of temper and stuff like that) because i was the exclusive one and also the firstborn.
As a contradiction, now i'm a quite humble guy, and i've learned to be that way, and no, i'm not specially refined, i'm egocentric and self indulgent, real empathy is something learned through the years too. But all the people who knew me, they never took me as a delicate person at all, maybe a little angst-ridden and unstable, but that's situational.
Personally i lean more to E4, but i'd be happy to see other's opinions.
I don't relate to that much. But I wouldn't say it's not 4ish. It could be 7 as well.
I was a peaceful child, fantasizing constantly on my own, almost self-effacing. Outburst of temper were VERY rare. But very impressive. Almost sounded 9ish as a child. But fixations 1 and 5 have a lot to do with it. My childhood was happy, and actually my parents were objectively great ! I've rarely met parents that could be compared to mine : clever, attentive, incredibly supporting, understanding, sincere... to such an amount which is really rare stuff in our world.
I grew more 4ish over the years. I'm more demanding with life now. Yet, i'm delicate and have always been.
The global sensation about you is 4 because about a few things :
- quite self-revealing and wanting to be sincere (7w6s are usually a little more playful and tricky about it)
- a little self-consciousness in insisting on the fact that what you say is true (like if you were supposing we don't believe you).
- not much afraid to talk about "negative" elements about yourself; quite comfortable with it
I would lean towards a 7-fixer 4, rather than 4-fxier 7. But I'm glad that other people on the board can you give additional feedback, because it's not absolutely obvious.
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| Desdemona |
Posted - 22 Jul 2012 : 10:35:13 PM
Rickstone, I'd typed a long reply, but the gist is, I relate to most of what you just said. I'm not trying to say you're a 7 instead of a 4. Hell, I get a bit confused about the lines between the types myself, but your post doesn't seem alien to me. Much of it sounds extremely familiar.
You say, "My intensity seeking is more involuntary and compulsive." How do you know it's more involuntary and compulsive? I'm not saying it isn't, just wondering why you'd assume this, in comparison to the intensity seeking of 7's. In my experience, ours doesn't feel all that voluntary or planned.
quote:
I have a hard time with shame, because i want too much, a huge desire to live. My reactions against shame are violent, but i identify it, idk what does have to do with subtypes.
So you feel shame because you want too much? Why? Because you feel you don't deserve the things you want? Because you feel you're being gluttonous? I don't personally relate to this kind of shame, but it doesn't sound like the fourish kind of shame, either. I do have shame around my emotions - how much things affect me, how hard I take things, the fact that my emotional reactions don't make sense to most people, that I can become totally disabled by them....and I sometimes feel shame over my social cluelessness....but other than those ways, shame isn't any big factor in my life.
I also need a lot of time alone to recharge, which I realize flies in the face of ideas about 7's. There are incidents from my childhood that I refuse to talk about because they involve my feelings being hurt by punishments. I feel internally brooding, though only certain people will see this side of me. I often ruminate on the past, and can get lost in romantic melancholy, and enjoy that. I relate very much to a lot of the other things you said, too. Certain parts, in particular, sound like a great description of how I feel or have been in the past.
I'm really not trying to confuse you, though. I get confused too often myself about this stuff.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
|
| skyboy |
Posted - 21 Jul 2012 : 6:36:39 PM
Continuation from this thread : http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27623
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
quote:
Originally posted by skyboy
Many common patterns between 7 and 4 : egocentricity, intensity seeking. Egocentricity in 4s is "self-absorbtion", sort of being ruminating thoughts about self, sometimes with an underlying secret competition which is rarely fun. In 7s it's more self-promotion.
I think my ego-centricity is more about self-absorption than self-promotion. I don't feel I'm much of a self-promoter, but self-absorbed, yeah, I admit that. I guess it's just a certain type of 7 ("N", non sx last? 4-fixer?) who seems to straddle the line in the descriptions between 7 and 4w3. A few of the others who've been here through the years were that way, though the majority haven't been. I'm not so sure what makes some of us like that and not others.
quote:
Intensity seeking in 4s is more negative, more inward. 7s is more outward and like a desire to live. This is more flying away from negative emotional states. But 4s can have it too. Withdrawn is a good indicator towards 4.
My intensity seeking is both inward and outward. Throughout my life, it has been a big "desire to live", yes, to experience life in all its intensity. However, the main sort of intensity I go for is emotional. I can get a huge charge out of something that might not seem very outwardly intense to others, and will prefer that to a more exterior sort of intensity. I'm not sure what you're meaning about 4's intensity-seeking being more negative (not arguing with that at all, though). At first glance, I thought that definitely wouldn't apply to me, then I thought about how, throughout my life, if I wasn't getting a positive sort intensity, I'd take a negative sort rather than feel humdrum. I've always been a very dramatic kind of person, led by my emotions. However, this might not be what you're talking about. My inward focus isn't negative towards myself, though I do have shame around certain areas. Overall, shame isn't any significant force in my life. Same for envy.
I highlighted what helps a 4/7 disambiguation to me.
I can't give any clear feedback about sx7 because I haven't known any of them for a long period of time. Even sx4 is not something I know very well. I've heard that sx4 have a sort of denial of shame and projection of it as hatred, that they can't really live shame and stay with it as SP and SO usually do. But I don't really know about it in depth.
About intensity-seeking I may take more time to reply. I'll just quote bear's description of fixation 4 I found the best I ever read :
FTR, as with most passions & virtues, equanimity does not fit neatly with a dictionary definition. Rather than meaning calm, it's more about having a clarity of mind that supports not getting swept away by emotional reactions. You could be incredibly excited and equanimous at the same time. Envy is the compulsion to measure, to constantly put oneself on a balance scale and measure yourself up or down in comparison to others or to ideals. Equanimity is the cessation of that... literally considering all things equal. Maitri:
Equanimity literally means "with equal mind" and has come to connote emotional balance, even when under stress. This balance is only possible when we bear all of ourselves with an equal mind and heart. Equanimity is an openness to the whole of ourselves. This means forsaking the ideal images in our minds. The following is Ichazo's definition of this virtue:
It is balance. A whole being lives in complete harmony with his environment. His moves are economical and always appropriate to his circumstances. He is not emotionally affected by external stimuli but responds to them exactly as much as is necessary.
This is only possible when we do not measure ourselves against others and don't take what we encounter in life personally, as a statement about us, but rather take it on its own terms.
Equanimity is considered in Buddhism one of the marks of enlightenment - in fact, the highest one. It means to see from the broader panorama, getting the big picture of things, and with this view, everything falls into perspective.
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
| Rickstone |
Posted - 21 Jul 2012 : 04:49:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
Desdemona
That urge to act and do something crazy in a bad situation, isn't me. Well it was, but with a more dramatic/tragic fashion, i think.... "I mean, i'm f&%ked up, what the hell does it matter", like wearing my heart on a sleeve.
Yeah, this is what I'm talking about, Rickstone.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
Ah... I see
I have a lot of thoughts about my typing right now
But is very late
I'll elaborate tomorrow |
| Desdemona |
Posted - 20 Jul 2012 : 10:19:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
Desdemona
That urge to act and do something crazy in a bad situation, isn't me. Well it was, but with a more dramatic/tragic fashion, i think.... "I mean, i'm f&%ked up, what the hell does it matter", like wearing my heart on a sleeve.
Yeah, this is what I'm talking about, Rickstone.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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| thomg |
Posted - 12 Jul 2012 : 10:40:33 AM
No worries, Rickstone. Just happened to read your past just after I got some bad news - so it was nice. |
| Rich |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 8:39:35 PM
[quote]Originally posted by shakti
7w6 and 3w4 seem like the contenders, with possibly 4w3 or 6w7 after that. ( end quote )
How can there any doubt about 3W4 being one of the contenders? I worked with a female 7W6-ESFP for more than 18 and a half years, and so Shakti seems to exactly right.... 
/ 
ISTJ & SP-3W4, DISC:High-DSC
Serious-Sensitive-Inventive-Leisurely Styles
HER:SP-2W1 & ISFJ; Self Sacrificing-Dramatic-Conscientious-Aggressive styles
My philosophy of life: Love will get you through.
I learned to dissemble at an early age. |
| shakti |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 5:56:39 PM
7w6 and 3w4 seem like the contenders, with possibly 4w3 or 6w7 after that. |
| Desdemona |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 12:48:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thomg
- future orientation (you said: there is a look-forward in me). This is not the case for 4's.
- 7's react against the above with: "I'm allright, jack", and a calculated hedonism. This fits with when you said: "i've never been called paranoid or a worrier. Much more the contrary."
Yeah, this is a good reason for me being 7 over 4 as well. Learning things quickly also, though I think that can be true of probably any type (I do know it's associated with 7).
quote:
[b]Yes - 7w6, even when aesthetic elitists (some of the all time great artistic geniuses are 7), nevertheless have a strong everyman/egalitarian attitude -- this is a good way to distinguish them from 4's.
This too.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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| rockthrower |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 03:01:00 AM
Hi Rickstone, I read you post and I an thinking that your type may be found with in the Feeling triad.
May impression as I got to the the middle of the second half of your post was, that I felt like I was listening to a 2w1.
I think your misidentification or confused, 'not shore' mind set, between 4 and 6 may be related to the shake energies that are your every day energy.
The 4 may relate to the core stack type that I think you may be, and that is; sx.
Her is a link to help you with working out the instinct energies: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27533
the six part is more complicated to explain but I will give it a go.
The 4 part: SX/sp/so and the 6 part: Sx/SO/sp
The Sx is the 4 part I am thinking and the SO is the 6 part.
The Sx/sp is deign and actual. your obligation orientation to duty at your best if I am correct in typing your stack.
And the SO part of the Sx/so/sp is the emotion/ impulsive natural drive that is emotion based, that is if I have correctly typed you as an Sx/sp/so. So you real need to think of it as like you have two arms going young the stack circle so to say, one is stronger or more used than the other, as in your own use of your arms , left or right handed.
So I an thinking that you may be an 2w1 Sx/Sp/So and your connection with 4, will exist as a type 2, and your connection with 6 will exist via superego, and your connection with 7 will exist according to my theory of the E , by the fact, that I assert, ...points 2 and 7 with in the workings of the instincts or stacks are connected at an interface of; interpersonal, which in dive relates to; how we are likely to be [compelled to interconnect] with others in the role play of our daily, interpersonal engagement with other's. 
Rickstone. good luck with your journey in to expiring the E. |
| thomg |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 02:33:45 AM
Rickstone: I suggest reading Wisdom or Naranjo. If you don't feel the 7 shame/recognition from reading good E sources and comparing them with your truest inner motives and feelings, then reconsider my diagnosis of sx/sp 7w6.
Disclaimer: below written hastily (sorry for the mess), and just because you've asked me to Rickstone - don't have time to get into debates with others.
You need to come to your own understanding of type. But based on what you've said, if you really want to find the truth, I would mull long and hard over good stuff on 7 and see if it clicks.
I would also suggest clarifying to yourself whether you are sx/sp, and taking some time to understand what sx/sp means. Sx/sp adds reactivity, restlessness, and many other 4-ish traits.
Syntax, expression, gestalt wise -- I see 7 not 6, and sx/sp. I agree you have 4 elements, but you don't have many 4 indicators and have some big contraindicators. You may have a 4 fix. But I would first try to work out your stacking and core type.
The first thing would be to find out whether you are a head type.
- head type is by definition where lack of certainty resides -- the lack of certainty is the issue. 6 is the core type. 5 and 7 are offshoots of 6, but still share in the essential head problem which was summarised by you when you said:
"I'm always uncertain of things and through all my short life i approached security/insecurity in one way, or another."
- a particular kind of 'heady' anxiety. When stressed, this leads to 'wheelspinning', like a mouse on wheel.
- 'fast' intelligence (esp 7 and 6) - learn things quick, verbally fast.
- future orientation (you said: there is a look-forward in me). This is not the case for 4's.
- 7's react against the above with: "I'm allright, jack", and a calculated hedonism. This fits with when you said: "i've never been called paranoid or a worrier. Much more the contrary."
- for 6's authority always means a lot, even if they are rejecting it. 7's have an echo of this, but are more 'against' and individualistic.
All this says 7 to me, as a whole:
Loyalty is also alien to me, my approach to this is fairly neutral. I never saw betrayal as such a big deal, i'm independent.
Once i saw a video of David Fauvre introduction to the enneagram, and he said that 6s don't want to stand out, pointed out because of blaming, or step aside of the crowd. I was like WTF?, this not me!!!.
my nonchalantic approach to things, in some stuff i just simply don't care of.
The reasons why i think 4 is "total me" in my personality is because i've always had a "show" playing within my mind... Hmmm, a scene?, a self mythologizing way of seeing myself to be exact.
This is ur-7, esp sx 7. Life as theatre, life as drama.
So i go around making a big deal about how empty i feel and trying to make a big show on how a tragic victim i feel. But a good show... You know what i mean??? Like the perfect dramatic situation with the heart-crushing stuff
When i tell people about my problems, it's all about me and my greek tragedy.
Also i have a "king without a crown" mindset, or maybe like an angry prince. I was the golden child in my family, but then all got f&$%ed up and i got angry and hateful with my parents.
^^This is very non-attachment. It pretty very likely rules out 6 and 3, probably also 9.
I'm fantasy oriented ( i'm INFP, maybe ENFP so there's something there too) and so on .
sx 7 - life as fantasy.
But i see something off with 4s in general, something that i don't find in me. There's a delicate, elitist, refined stuff in them. But, idk, maybe it is my blind spot between my self image, and what others perceive in me.
Yes - 7w6, even when aesthetic elitists (some of the all time great artistic geniuses are 7), nevertheless have a strong everyman/egalitarian attitude -- this is a good way to distinguish them from 4's.
Also i don't suffer for self pity, not now at least. My self hate comes directly and dramatically after a period of simulated toughness and stoicism.
All 4's have self-pity. It comes with the territory, even in ultra-healthy ones where they're not expressing it, or it's not 'pathological', the internal mechanisms of self-pity are inextricable from the 4 structure.
- I want to be seen, i want to make a impact in the world.
- I struggled in my childhood and through my early teens with finding an adequate way of expresing myself, something that i would be really talented. Because that's what i wanted, to be seen as "accidentally" talented.
^^ above is 7. The 'casual', everyman genius. The 'natural' generalist genius. Lackadaisically brilliant.
But...I'm not driven, or exceptionally self promotive. I'm young, but as far as i can see, i'm not a hard worker, or a winner. Im far more self sabotaging and limbic.
^^ Again, 7. Perhaps 7 going to 1 - self-criticism re: effort.
- Lazy as hell. Play now, work later. Being practical is VERY difficult for me.
Ur-7.
- Success is just one thing in your life, doesn't mean too much to me. Acomplishing/excelling is alien to me, i'm too erratic and loose.
7 again
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| Desdemona |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 02:28:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
What led you to settle in 7w6 over 4w3 btw??
Oh, man, I've answered that so many times, and it's really late. In a nutshell, the DOI/DOD, negative behaviors, "wakeup call", etc. fit better. However, I have to amend that now, because last year I went through a really difficult time, and for the most part I didn't show the low-level 7 behaviors, like I always had before, I acted more like a low-level 5. Also, I don't relate much to the shame and envy aspects of 4, though those are explained away on the site you referenced. The negative behaviors for 4 fit almost as much as those for 7, but the urge to act out and go crazy whenever something really bad happened was something I noticed in myself long ago, years before I knew the enneagram.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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| Desdemona |
Posted - 11 Jul 2012 : 01:07:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
And based on this http://theenneagram.blogspot.com/2007/12/new-4w3-vs-7w6-misidentifying.html i'm more in the 4w3 place.
Based on that I'm totally on the 4w3 side too, but I think it's a very surfacy view of 7's. It seems to all depend on what material you read, actually. I fit about 0% of the 7 description on that site....but 7w6 actually does seem to fit better, for the most part. I've always thought the page seemed to be written specifically with me in mind, by someone who thinks I'm mistyped.....and it was written by a former poster here, so that's quite possible.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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| Metimes10 |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 9:20:18 PM
You are a 7w6.
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"As long as that which I do is ethical, as long as I do not want to hurt, steal, or take from another person, then the life-style I choose has to be good." - Terry Cole-Whittaker.
9w1 - SP/SX/so.
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