The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board
The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board
Home | Policy | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Public Enneagram Discussion Board
 Focused Enneagram Discussion
 Introversion, Extraversion, and Enneagram
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

Patrick
Member

USA
963 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  11:51:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Patrick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've been dabbling at personality typing for years, and the question of introversion vs extraversion has got to be one of the most aggravating aspects of it.

What's frustrating is that everybody is sure they know what these things are and can spot them in people, yet there's a great deal of debate as to what the words really mean.

To confuse things further, there are people who insist that they're "ambiverts" or "introverted extraverts" or "extraverted introverts." In fact, most people probably want to describe themselves this way; introversion and extraversion seem to be clear traits only when we see them in other people.

When it comes to the enneagram, I find that this I/E dichotomy seems to limit the type choices. Generally we go by the Hornevian triads and say that types 4, 5, and 9 are withdrawn, or introverted; types 3, 7, and 8 are aggressive, or extraverted; and types 1, 2, and 6 are, well, "compliant" or maybe "ambiverted." This gives us a lot of freedom in typing someone as a 1, 2, or 6, because it's fairly easy to picture them as either expressive or reserved. But if somebody looks like a 4, 5, or 9, we may think, "Oh, wait, he can't be; he's very outgoing and expressive and extraverted." Or if we're about to type someone as 3, 7, or 8, we'll hesitate if the subject looks shy or has a low profile.

I just ran into that yesterday. I was thinking about a good friend who seems quite Four-ish to me. She read a little about the enneagram and at first thought maybe she was a Two, but then Four really lit up for her. And it fits. Except that she's not at all "withdrawn." It's very likely she's an ENFJ, and she's very outgoing and "in charge." Yet she's also inwardly troubled and deeply emotional and has a flair for the dramatic. So, I'm back to the drawing board, just because "introverted" absolutely does not fit her, which seemingly rules out type Four. (Of course she herself has been known to say she's an introvert -- but she'll say, "I'm the most extraverted introvert in the world." Which probably just means she's an intuitive extravert with a rich inner life.)

I think I'm the only person I don't have trouble with when it comes to the I/E question. You can define introversion any way you want to, and that's me. If it means shyness, I've got that. If it doesn't mean shyness but refers to needing time alone, that's still me. When I take these silly online tests, I often score 100 percent on the "introverted" dimension.

Maybe that's why it's so troublesome for me: almost everybody is more extraverted than I am, so I have to gauge it from an extreme perspective (i.e., "How different is that person from me in this respect?"). And I have to do it without directly interacting with a lot of people, since we introverts tend to avoid that.

Am I just ranting here? I don't know. But since you're here, let me ask you something: Do you think it's possible for a 3, 7, or 8 to be (or seem) introverted? Or for a 4, 5, or 9 to be (or seem) extraverted?

And what do the words introversion and extraversion mean to you? Are they traits you feel you can readily see in yourself and others?



--Patrick (9w1, INFP)
You're welcome to visit or join Temperament Talk at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/temperamenttalk/

awakening
Member

USA
2512 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  12:01:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit awakening's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I honestly have never had a problem deciding whether someone is Introverted or Extroverted. To me, it just seems to naturally make sense one way or the other. According to MBTI, Extroverts charge or get energy from interactions with others, whereas Introverts achieve equilibrium and peace of mind primarily by spending time in their own heads. It's a very fundamental thing out of which stems a great deal of personality complexities--but I always feel like an introvert, even when I'm in a more social setting and being very outgoing. After prolonged social activity, I, and all introverts will inevitably need time to process their own internal feelings in order to recover their lost energy. Extroverts, on the other hand, will be the reverse. They will enjoy some time alone, but their ebb and flow is different, as they will relax and recharge in a social environment rather than in the confines of their own psyche, which might feel alien and oppressive to them...whereas Introverts tend to feel that the social environment can be oppressive and exhausting.

That's my impression of how it works, anyway. There are varying degrees of introversion and extroversion, but those are just different coefficients for the same issue depending on individual persons. When it comes down to it, there is a fundamental characteristics of which is the dominant function. Introversion and Extroversion are much more a Jungian issue than an Enneagram issue, and I think that certain types are almost always Introverts, (4, 5) others are typically extroverts (7, 2, 8?) and 1's, 6's, 3's...I feel like they are more likely to be either one or the other. I've met both introverted and extroverted 6's, 3's and 1's, but they seem to be kind of like...on the borderline, for example, maybe they were 60% extroverted on an MBTI test, so only slightly or moderately expressed...

Please correct me if I am not being accurate, but I've gotten the impression from the literature that there is not a direct correlation in the Enneagram between Introversion/Extroversion and specific types. That's what stackings, etc are for. In the end, the Enneagram is NOT the same system as MBTI, so any correspondences are inferential and not set in stone. Right?

4w5, INFJ
Go to Top of Page

Stormy
Member

16439 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  12:07:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick

But since you're here, let me ask you something: Do you think it's possible for a 3, 7, or 8 to be (or seem) introverted? Or for a 4, 5, or 9 to be (or seem) extraverted?


Not really.

quote:
Originally posted by Patrick

And what do the words introversion and extraversion mean to you?


Introverts are low-energy and try not to affect (or be affected by) their environment too much, whereas extroverts are high-energy and try to affect (and be affected by) their environment.

[Stormy] [5w6] [sp/so]
Go to Top of Page

Functianalyst
Member

USA
562 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  12:55:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Functianalyst's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have questioned this myself in the past and was insistent that there are types that would prefer introversion to extraversion and vice-versa, however now that I have a better feel for the enneagram and MBTI not correlating, I believe that E/I does not exist with this system. Moreso, I think that MBTI has a limiting and somewhat ambiguousness about what an extravert is. Everyone can be social or gregarious, however most forget that MBTI results are based on how you see yourself at home alone, not while in a group or out and about. I would think that the average nine would describe themselves differently in this scenario since they usually lose who they are when with others.


ISTP/9omni

Edited by - Functianalyst on 09 Jan 2008 12:56:09 PM
Go to Top of Page

Patrick
Member

USA
963 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  4:35:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Patrick's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Functianalyst

Everyone can be social or gregarious, however most forget that MBTI results are based on how you see yourself at home alone, not while in a group or out and about. I would think that the average nine would describe themselves differently in this scenario since they usually lose who they are when with others.


Good point. Nines are said to be the most "other-oriented" type, and that makes sense to me. Yet at the same time, as I said earlier, I'm the most introverted (i.e., shy or reserved) person around. Which leads some people to comment, "I don't get it -- you keep so much to yourself, yet you're really a 'people person'."


--Patrick (9w1, INFP)
You're welcome to visit or join Temperament Talk at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/temperamenttalk/
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  4:37:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by awakening

I honestly have never had a problem deciding whether someone is Introverted or Extroverted. To me, it just seems to naturally make sense one way or the other. According to MBTI, Extroverts charge or get energy from interactions with others, whereas Introverts achieve equilibrium and peace of mind primarily by spending time in their own heads.


What's confusing for me is that I do both. I draw energy from outside interactions in a big way, but I achieve equilibrium and peace more by retreating into my mind.

quote:
After prolonged social activity, I, and all introverts will inevitably need time to process their own internal feelings in order to recover their lost energy. Extroverts, on the other hand, will be the reverse. They will enjoy some time alone, but their ebb and flow is different, as they will relax and recharge in a social environment rather than in the confines of their own psyche, which might feel alien and oppressive to them...whereas Introverts tend to feel that the social environment can be oppressive and exhausting.


Sometimes one of these is true for me, other times the opposite. Usually I feel unable to spend very long periods of time by myself, yet I am also overwhelmed by too much social interaction. Dunno. I HAVE to have a certain amount of time alone, but if I'm in a social situation around people I enjoy being with, at the end of the night my energy will be higher than it was at the beginning. I often have a hard time sleeping after I've been connecting very strongly with others.

I don't know, I've always been a bit stumped on the question myself. I almost always test as extroverted, though I've been known to score INFP on a few tests.


Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  5:23:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Introverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, say that they have to do their homework. Or they've got personal things to work on etc.

Extroverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, have got other people to spend time with. And skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home.



- atone
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  5:36:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by atone

Introverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, say that they have to do their homework. Or they've got personal things to work on etc.

Extroverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, have got other people to spend time with. And skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home.


According to that, I'd be an introvert.


Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  6:04:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What I find strange about the introversion/extroversion thing is, that a lot of people seem to think that being "extroverted" is about talking about the weather with lots of people.

Which gets tedious and boring. "It looks like it's going to rain" - "Nice weather for a bbq" etc...

I find that there's a lot of people who seem to think that being extroverted means getting along with lots of people. Talking to lots of people. Having all these conversations that don't matter.

When I'm feeling my most extroverted, I really don't want to talk about the weather. I want people to explode with energy. I want constant change, and stimulation. I want that feeling of maximum beneift. I want people to laugh. To have fun. To bubble and overflow with joy, and delight.

Now the thing is, for me I want *everybody* to be energised. I want everyone to be comfortable. I want everyone to enjoy themselves.

And if people want to "go against that", "be rigid", "be a downer" etc... then I want them to flip. It's like black and white. If they're black, they should be white, they should be black.

But at the same time, if people are too outgoing, I want them to uhh. .. not be as outgoing .. I get uncomfortable with people who are more extroverted than me .. people who talk more than me etc ..

Now, in a way, I realise that people who seem more extroverted than me, often "lie", "dupe", "mislead" etc ... It's like con-artists will generally be quite extroverted. It's the ones who play games. Who have a bit of a complex etc. They do things like try to put thoughts in you, as if you've said them. And you know it's not true, but they keep trying to do it, trying to "guide" you, trying to "accuse" you, trying to work others against you etc. If things don't go well, they can even go up to other people, and try to tell other people that you've said bad things about them, and try and act as if they're "trying to help" when really they're JUST A [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]ING PAIN IN THE[blocked due to guideline #4 violation]AND SHOULD BE KICKED OUT THE [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]ING DOOR RIGHT NOW.

Anyway. I often act quite introverted, even when I feel capable of being extroverted. I can spend time on my own. I can walk alone if no-one will join me. And I don't really like pretending to be something I'm not. It's hard to act different from where I'm at, I'm cautious etc.

Anyway, like some other people. I flip. One moment I can be introverted, the next extroverted. One moment I can be talking a lot, the next I'm not talking at all. Sometimes I suddenly go quiet, which seems to disconcert some people. And sometimes I stand still without moving, like a statue. Other times I burst with energy, radiating it out.

Anyway, I often seem to tell people that I'm shy. That I feel uncomfortable meeting new people. That I need to take time for myself. That sometimes everything's too much for me, and I need to get away. And I've had people try to counter it. Like "You say you're shy. You just came up to me, and talked to me! That's not shy". Or "You're not as shy as me" or something.

The whole not directly interacting thing. I find that sometimes people watch me. And then they can tell me things about me. And I don't even know who they are. This happened to me just last weekend. I'd been drinking and chatting to my friend, on the bus, and we were having a conversation, and somehow it got to biting. And I wanted to check it off aganist someone external, so I turned to the people on the bus behind us, and asked them about it. Anyway, one of them seemed to know who I was to a degree. And seemed to be amused by the fact that I didn't know who she was. The other one was real defensive, and didn't say much.

Anyway, I seem to end up talking to lots of girls that say they're introverts. And often it seems they're not really that introverted. Just that they're a bit nervous in social situations.

And yet, I never seem to talk to anyone who says they're an extrovert.

It's like the most extroverted people I seem to actually end up talking to, seem to be the ones who are really zany, and animated. Probably 7w6s?




- atone
Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  6:05:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by atone

Introverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, say that they have to do their homework. Or they've got personal things to work on etc.

Extroverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, have got other people to spend time with. And skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home.


According to that, I'd be an introvert.



Do you flip to being an extrovert when you're in a relationship?

- atone
Go to Top of Page

anon
Member

United Kingdom
8861 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  6:09:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit anon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can find some introvert or withdrawy folk draining, despite how beautiful they are.

I feel I have to respect their boxes, and it's tiring controlling myself. I prefer free energy.

That was pretty self absorbed, so I doubt it helped, but hell, can't be bothered to erase it now.

sx 4w7 with a good dose of social 6 pretending to be a 5.
Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  6:17:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by saintly_boozed

I can find some introvert or withdrawy folk draining, despite how beautiful they are.

I feel I have to respect their boxes, and it's tiring controlling myself. I prefer free energy.

That was pretty self absorbed, so I doubt it helped, but hell, can't be bothered to erase it now.

sx 4w7 with a good dose of social 6 pretending to be a 5.



i find some withdrawn people draining too. although i find some anxious people draining too.

- atone

Edited by - atone on 09 Jan 2008 6:17:47 PM
Go to Top of Page

anon
Member

United Kingdom
8861 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  6:26:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit anon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hell yes, anxious people are draining. Anxious extraverts

sx 4w7 with a good dose of social 6 pretending to be a 5.
Go to Top of Page

Honey Bee
Member

17613 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  6:40:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Honey Bee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
introversion connected to fixation.
and
extraversion connected to passion.





Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  7:14:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
passion can be intoxicating ... mmm..

- atone
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  8:59:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by atone
Do you flip to being an extrovert when you're in a relationship?



How do you mean??

"Extroverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, have got other people to spend time with. And skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home."

So are you asking if, when I'm in a relationship, I prefer to spend time with someone other than my s.o.? Or if I prefer to spend time with my s.o. rather than anyone else? And you're asking if I skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home when I'm in a relationship?


Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style




Edited by - Desdemona on 09 Jan 2008 9:01:53 PM
Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  9:31:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by atone
Do you flip to being an extrovert when you're in a relationship?



How do you mean??

"Extroverts are people, who when you want to spend time with them, have got other people to spend time with. And skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home."

So are you asking if, when I'm in a relationship, I prefer to spend time with someone other than my s.o.? Or if I prefer to spend time with my s.o. rather than anyone else? And you're asking if I skip from one social situation to the next, rather than wanting to go home when I'm in a relationship?



When you're in a relationship, I'm assuming you spend time with your SO. Bceause otherwise why would you be in a relationship.

And so when you go out with your SO, to one thing with them. Do you want to go to another, or spend time alone with him at home?

- atone
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  10:20:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by atone
When you're in a relationship, I'm assuming you spend time with your SO. Bceause otherwise why would you be in a relationship.


Of course.

quote:
And so when you go out with your SO, to one thing with them. Do you want to go to another, or spend time alone with him at home?



Time alone at home. I love to occaisionally socialize with my s.o., but I hate it when it goes on and on and on. If the relationship's good, I'd much rather have some alone time for us after socializing. This has become an issue in past relationships, when my partner wanted to keep socializing on and on without end. A couple of guys I dated actually had people at their house all the time, like some kind of group crash pad.


Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  10:45:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
so .. desdemona.. that makes me see you as an introvert.

- atone
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2008 :  11:38:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by atone

so .. desdemona.. that makes me see you as an introvert.



Okay. It seems more related to sx/sp to me, but I am a little fuzzy on the true distinctions between E and I. The definitions are not consistent.


Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Go to Top of Page

atone
Member

New Zealand
6634 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2008 :  01:33:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by atone

so .. desdemona.. that makes me see you as an introvert.



Okay. It seems more related to sx/sp to me, but I am a little fuzzy on the true distinctions between E and I. The definitions are not consistent.



I think we must agree that it depends on peoples own way of seeing things.. Like if you have a group of introverted people - and one person acts more extroverted. Does that make them "the extrovert"?

Then you take a group of extroverted people, and that same person is not as extroverted. Does that make them the introvert?



- atone
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2008 :  10:48:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by atone
I think we must agree that it depends on peoples own way of seeing things.. Like if you have a group of introverted people - and one person acts more extroverted. Does that make them "the extrovert"?

Then you take a group of extroverted people, and that same person is not as extroverted. Does that make them the introvert?


Right. I grew up hearing my social last mom talk about how extroverted I was. She was always saying what a socializer I was, and great with people (coming from someone who's had problems with social anxiety). Then, when I was dating a social first, all I heard about constantly was how antisocial I was, and always offending people. Lol. So yeah, it depends on your standard of comparison.


Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Go to Top of Page

amber_headlights
Member

USA
919 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2008 :  2:41:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit amber_headlights's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick

I just ran into that yesterday. I was thinking about a good friend who seems quite Four-ish to me. She read a little about the enneagram and at first thought maybe she was a Two, but then Four really lit up for her. And it fits. Except that she's not at all "withdrawn." It's very likely she's an ENFJ, and she's very outgoing and "in charge." Yet she's also inwardly troubled and deeply emotional and has a flair for the dramatic. So, I'm back to the drawing board, just because "introverted" absolutely does not fit her, which seemingly rules out type Four. (Of course she herself has been known to say she's an introvert -- but she'll say, "I'm the most extraverted introvert in the world." Which probably just means she's an intuitive extravert with a rich inner life.)




I've wondered about that,too...do fours always have to be introverts or can a 4 with a 3 wing be an extravert? I knew someone that was pretty much exactly as you described your friend, and he was pretty much a textbook ENFJ, and I've typed him as a sx/so 4w3. He could be really gregarious, but was quite dramatic, described himself as someone whose "feelings are always very close to the surface" and most everything I've read about fours push/pull relationships fit him to a tee.

quote:

I think I'm the only person I don't have trouble with when it comes to the I/E question. You can define introversion any way you want to, and that's me. If it means shyness, I've got that. If it doesn't mean shyness but refers to needing time alone, that's still me. When I take these silly online tests, I often score 100 percent on the "introverted" dimension.



I can relate to that. I always score very high on introversion on online tests, and it's pretty rare for someone to confuse me for an extravert or ambivert. Hell, right before the break, I had a colleague tell me that I was a "loner." Mind you, I'm a philosophy graduate student, which tends to attract introverted, bookish sorts to begin with. Do you know how introverted you have to be for philosophers to call you a "loner"?


I think it's easy to tell when people are very clearly at one end of the spectrum...extreme introverts or extreme extraverts. My boyfriend, for example, is very extraverted, and there's no way that anyone would confuse him for an introvert. When it's less clear-cut, though, I think context plays a much bigger role...for example, if someone is in a professional role that requires them to be extraverted (professor, etcetera) versus introverted (say, laboratory research) those qualities might be more pronounced when you see them in that role...but at home or with close friends, it's a different story. So, I try to separate them from the role I see them in the most and find out how they are across a broad spectrum of situations...



---
"Modesty is very likely a feeling of profanation. Friendship,love and piety should be treated secretly. We should speak of them only in rare and intimate moments, and reach a silent understanding on them--there is much which is too fragile to be thought, and still more too delicate for discussion."
-Novalis
4w5 so/sx INFJ
Big Five Results:
O:98% N:80% C:63% A:50% E:34%
Go to Top of Page

savory
Member

3504 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2008 :  4:34:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit savory's Homepage  Reply with Quote
lol... makes me remember a time in an airport when my extroverted 1w2 dad turned to me and said, "you must be an extrovert, eh?". My eyes went wide and I said, "no...why would you think that???"

"Well, your friends seem to like you a lot and you are personable"

Gave me a wake up call to how he might see introversion (as a person being unfriendly and unlikeable). It was just so strange an observation from him, because I see myself as a definite introvert, and definitely am the most introverted one in my family.

I often think that some extroverts can't tell as easily how introverted a person might be, as they search for extroverted qualities; my dad picking up on my likability and amusing tendencies, which he relates to, instead of my solitary and introspective nature, which he probably doesn't relate to 'as' much.

But I do have extroverted friends who know that I like to have my alone time, and that I really appreciate. Often they are quite busy and don't have huge amounts of time to spend socializing and joking around anyway, so in a sense, I am their perfect friend as when they have free time I am usually up for a few hours of having fun, then it's back to being by myself until they are free again. :-)

Half of my family are "Highly Sensitive" people, but half are also extroverts, which means that they like to "go go go" and be around others and socialize and have a good time, but then get really tired by being around so much stimulation so have to sleep for a day to 'recover'.

I've known an introverted guy (4w5w6...) who likes to spend most of his time alone, staying constantly active with books and music and soooo much stuff. It feels like he's always switched "on" and I get tired from listening to him ramble on about things I don't know about; info overload. I gather that he's not an HSP, as he can just go and go and doesn't seem affected by too much sensory stimulation... but still he needs time alone and is often by himself.

I tend to want to separate the I/E thing from HSP-ness, and usually go by the definition of what a person is energized by (people or 'things/themselves').

I think one of my sisters might be an hsp/E three, as she likes to spend time alone away from noise, but then when 'alone' is texting people or probably im-ing, reading, and also gets really tired from being out with others for extended amounts of time in large/loud places.

I think being an HSP can manifest some qualities of introversion, noticing a lot more details, getting overwhelmed (by 'things' - hsp extroverts; and by 'things and people' - hsp introverts)...

So then there could be categories:

HSP/I
HSP/E
non-hsp/I
non-hsp/E

It helps me to an extent.
Sorry if it's jumbled.

------------------------------------------------

sp/sx infp withdrawn

"Nothing so aggravates an earnest person as a passive resistance."

Edited by - savory on 11 Jan 2008 4:50:20 PM
Go to Top of Page

Desdemona
Member

USA
16867 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2008 :  12:30:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amber_headlights
I've wondered about that,too...do fours always have to be introverts or can a 4 with a 3 wing be an extravert?


They can be extroverts.

quote:
I knew someone that was pretty much exactly as you described your friend, and he was pretty much a textbook ENFJ, and I've typed him as a sx/so 4w3. He could be really gregarious, but was quite dramatic, described himself as someone whose "feelings are always very close to the surface" and most everything I've read about fours push/pull relationships fit him to a tee.


All that is like me too, except for the J instead of P. Certain types can be easily confused - the dramatic, feelings-on-the-sleeve, gregarious, flamboyant type. It's a distinction I'm still trying to flesh out.




Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Go to Top of Page

shakti
Member

USA
11104 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2008 :  01:54:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit shakti's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick

Am I just ranting here? I don't know. But since you're here, let me ask you something: Do you think it's possible for a 3, 7, or 8 to be (or seem) introverted? Or for a 4, 5, or 9 to be (or seem) extraverted?

And what do the words introversion and extraversion mean to you? Are they traits you feel you can readily see in yourself and others?




No on the ranting.

Yeah, I know an INTP 3 as an example. We could get into some amazing conversations about topics we had in common, but when it came to work he worked for success, and parsed reality accordingly, also he had more capacity to just enjoy doing friendly things (socially well adjusted for INTP). I know an introverted 8. He's sp/sx, spends time removed from the world quite a bit, sorta disappears, similar to a 5. But, when he's out in the world, he's very engaged, action-oriented.

Introversion and extraversion do not preclude a particular type, and variants may also influence.

Also, in MBTI Step II they measure facets for extraversion and introversion as "Out-of-Preference, Midzone and In-Preference"

From: https://www.skillsone.com/images/smp267149.pdf

EXTRAVERSION (E) Directing energy toward the outer world of people and objects
INTROVERSION (I) Directing energy toward the inner world of experience and ideas

INITIATING Sociable, congenial, introduce people
EXPRESSIVE Demonstrative, easier to know, self-revealing
GREGARIOUS Seek popularity, broad circle, join groups
ACTIVE Interactive, want contact, listen and speak
ENTHUSIASTIC Lively, energetic, seek spotlight

RECEIVING Reserved, low-key, are introduced
CONTAINED Controlled, harder to know, private
INTIMATE Seek intimacy, one-on-one, find individuals
REFLECTIVE Onlooker, prefer space, read and write
QUIET Calm, enjoy solitude, seek background

Functioning in the world requires introverts to develop some level of extraversion on one or more of the facets.

There seems to be some correlation between soc and extraverted facets and sp and introverted facets. So, an introvert who is soc first or second might place more attention on cultivating their extraverted facets and an extravert who is sp first might place more importance on introverted facets.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:

Return to Top

The Enneagram Institute is a Service Mark of Enneagram Personality Types, Inc.
All Images, Content and Layout Copyright The Enneagram Institute 1998-2014.

Gold Bar

Share | |

[Home] [Back to Top] [Free RHETI Sampler] [Free QUEST Test] [Full RHETI Enneagram Test] [QUEST–TAS Test] [IVQ Instincts Test] [The Enn. Cards–Sorts] [Interpreting Test Results] [Type Descriptions] [How the System Works] [Levels of Development] [The Traditional Enneagram] [Practical Applications] [Relationships—Type Combinations] [Personal Growth] [Enneagram & Spirituality] [Addictions & Type] [Business Resources] [Enneagram FAQs] [Articles & Interviews] [Discussion Board] [Free EnneaFeatures Viewer Download] [Free RHETI Sampler Download] [Free Materials] [Books & Resources] [Schedule] [Training Program] [Workshops] [Private Consultations] [About The Institute] [Institute Network] [Teachers & Referral Listing] [Guestbook] [Contact The Institute]

The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board © 2002-2014 The Enneagram Institute Go To Top Of Page
Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05