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nature
Member

2756 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  8:40:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit nature's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've read a little bit on line about sleeping position and personality and that's not the direction I am trying to go in with this post.

I have observed a few things about myself and sleeping and I'm wondering if others have had any kind of insight about themselves in a similar regard.

One of the things that I have known for a long time now is that when my outlook on the world is positive, engaged and upbeat, I tend to sleep more on my back; when I am more four withdrawn, I sleep more on my stomach.

Recently I became aware of another sleep peculiarity of mine. I sleep with my hands curled up in an extremely uncomfortable position. I always sleep on top of them with my fingers together and with my whole hand flexed such that the angle at my wrist between my palm and inner forearm is minimized under the pressure of my body. This has started me waking up in pain and in raising it with my doctor and physiotherapist I discovered that I have been doing this so consistently for so long that I have an unnatural flexibility in this joint in that direction.

Anyway; in therapy the major issue I am working through right now is my disposition towards the world when it comes to meeting my own needs. I am learning about the degree to which I self-sabotage in this regard and how a strong, mistaken belief that colours everything that I do is that my (material and security) needs will not be met. I am still refining this "automatic thought" -- I don't yet fully understand it. Nevertheless it hit me this evening that the hands are a key means of accepting that which is given, or working to achieve and create something. The fact that I sleep with them curled tightly underneath my head or body mirrors, symbolically, my hang ups around meeting my own needs.

There may be no relationship whatsoever, but I thought it interesting and weird. I'd be curious if anyone else has noticed odd things about how they sleep and its relationship to their own self-insight.

nature 4w3

When walking, just walk.
When sitting, just sit.
Above all, don't wobble


Umon

Edited by - nature on 24 Jul 2008 8:56:04 PM

The Wayfarer
Member

USA
4432 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  9:16:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit The Wayfarer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I cannot sleep on my back it feels very unsafe. I sleep on my sides, but lately have had immense trouble sleeping and find that it is no longer fitting me very well. I recently got a new mattress thinking that would help but it hasn't. It seems I fall asleep most easily on my back but when I really am starting to go to sleep I have to turn over on my side. However, when I turn over lately I wake back up, and start tossing and turning. Interesting you should bring this topic up. I've been getting really self pres-y and buying new pillows and sheets and changing my bed karma but nothing is really helping me sleep. I wonder if there is a correlation not necessarily to personality but openness and emotional/psychological health and sleep position.
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dfgray44
Member

USA
11760 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  9:36:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit dfgray44's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As an sp/sx 9, I could be a professional sleeper; so, no problems here. I have a neurotic/elaborate pillow positioning system that guarantees that I won't wake up once during the night. It's as reliable as the sun rising and setting everyday.


As for your sleep and "hands", I think metaphors are the place to look (surprise, surprise)....

You could even add the symbol of sleep, itself, to the metaphoric storyline (which you've done already, inadvertently) - sleep being symbolic of unconsciousness. So, as you say, you've discovered an automatic thought, i.e.- an unconscious thought that relates to what-hands-do.

Obviously, 'hands' symbolize a lot things - concerns about how well you handle things, hand-to-mouth (survival), but emotional expression is also high up on the list of what hands are about. Maybe, you don't want to hold out your hand - to express/show your needs. Or some other issue related to emotional expression may be going on, concomitantly to your survival stuff.


Any complaints about the above conceptual offerings? Talk to the hand.





********* / *


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0i0
Member

112 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  10:19:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit 0i0's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I tend to sleep in a fetal-like position. Since the "fetal position" often symbolizes weakness, I suppose that would make sense to me since I feel fairly weak and vulnerable much of the time. However, there are other factors I cannot discuss here that actually influences my weakened sleep position.

Furthermore, I suppose since sleeping in the "fetal position" can also be represented in more Enneagramic jargon: My sp instinct tends to house me in like a baby in a mother's womb type of way... this would fit too.

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uchtungbaby
Member

Armenia
3400 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  11:47:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit uchtungbaby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
...Nevertheless it hit me this evening that the hands are a key means of accepting that which is given, or working to achieve and create something. The fact that I sleep with them curled tightly underneath my head or body mirrors, symbolically, my hang ups around meeting my own needs...



Excellent observation! The scrunching up of the hands you will find is in direct proportion to body strength on one side of your body when compared to the other side. It will be the hand on the weaker side of the body which tends to seek confinement by being scrunched up. The hand on the stronger side of the body takes on a supportive role by guiding and reinforcing posture in the non-dominant hand. Isn't that so(?)

You can improve bedding posture by becoming more active with moderate or little exercise involving the non-dominant hand. In fact, it is probably a good idea to get a little brisk exercise each day and focus more on the less dominant or strongest side of your body. The dominant side of your body is usually on the side of your writing hand.

One theory has it that when we sleep our bodies mimic postures associated with various types of disease. It makes sense really when you think about it. When we sleep our bodies mirror postures associated with various diseases and disorders. It makes sense when we think about it, because it is only in disease that man is allowed to rest. Myth has it that medicine attempts to trap the subject into disease by administering medications when the human subject is closest to a somnolent state(s).
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Stormy
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16132 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  05:08:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nature

There may be no relationship whatsoever, but I thought it interesting and weird. I'd be curious if anyone else has noticed odd things about how they sleep and its relationship to their own self-insight.


sleeping positions

[Stormy]

Edited by - Stormy on 25 Jul 2008 05:13:06 AM
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liquidzilla
Member

United Kingdom
1217 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  05:15:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit liquidzilla's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Im a yearner, soldier or freefaller XD It depends on how tired I am really.
Very tired = freefaller
tired = yearner
not tired = soldier


ES/NTP
sx/sp
Hedonist - Self-confident/Mecurial
Orphan/Magician/Jester
~Come on! Live it up while you can~
http://searchingadream.smackjeeves.com/
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skunk
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5751 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  06:47:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit skunk's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Foetal then Freefall.

But I'm pretty neurotic: lying on my stomach, I keep envisioning fishhooks or something reaching out of the mattress and pulling out my guts and stuff.
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nature
Member

2756 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  07:18:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit nature's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Storm I had seen the article that the earlier post refers to. And it's not that kind of thing I am interested in so much as what savorypie describes -- being able to recognize a change in how one sleeps and linking it to other stuff happening in one's life.

Savorypie when I sleep on my stomach I am also aware of the role of that pressure in making me feel comfortable.



nature 4w3

When walking, just walk.
When sitting, just sit.
Above all, don't wobble


Umon
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Laurie
Member

1678 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  08:19:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit Laurie's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I never sleep on my stomach and rarely on my back. I do toss and turn a bit during the night - I think my position is more due to physical comfort rather than any psychological position.

Laurie 1w2 ENTJ
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atone
Member

New Zealand
6633 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  12:01:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I tend to sleep on my right hand side. Sometimes my left hand side. And when I'm feeling pretty good about myself on my back.

I remember when I was young, sometimes I used to clench my fist in my sleep to stay balanced. And then it go after a while. It seemed to help with the horrors, bad dreams etc.

I've also noticed that I often seem to move forwards with my right side first. Like I like to go side-on into new environments. If I look for metaphoric significance it's like my left side is weaker, and more fragile. And my right side is stronger, so once I know what the situation is like I can be less defensive. Also, by going side on it's easier to weave in and between people so that I can get where I'm going faster.

I've never really talked to anyone about the way I sleep. I know that I can be quite a restless sleeper at times though. When I've seen movies with people talking about their sleep, and sleeping easy at night, like a baby. Or not sleeping well. Well, uhh, I don't sleep like a baby. My dreams, they're not that easy to take. And sometimes I wake up, and I've shifted in bed quite a lot.

It'd be kind of nice to sleep like a baby. Maybe if I stole a baby, then I could try and emulate it. And then sleep easy, and that could be kind of nice. But I'd probably feel a bit guilty. I mean, what would the mother think? Would she fret?

- atone
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Stormy
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16132 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  12:04:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by atone

It'd be kind of nice to sleep like a baby.


Screaming your head off and soiling yourself every hour-or-so?

[Stormy]
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16622 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  1:14:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sturgeon48

I cannot sleep on my back it feels very unsafe.


Interesting, I think sleeping on your side feels more unsafe. Somebody could sneak up behind you, which they couldn't do if you were on your back. I actually trained myself to sleep on my back as a child, because I was afraid of the dark and didn't want ghoulies sneaking up behind me, ha. I'd sleep on my back surrounded by my favorite stuffed animals, and feel much more secure.


Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
7w6cp
Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16622 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  1:19:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I toss and turn alot. Sleeping on my back is my #1 position (no longer because of the security thing, it just feels most comfortable to me). I'll also sleep on my side with one leg straight and one bent, or on my stomach with my arm up and head turned towards it (more like the arm at a 90 degree angle, not burying my head in my arm, that wouldn't feel good to me). After awhile on my stomach the pressure starts to hurt my cheekbones and jaw, so I'll turn back over. It goes - back - side - stomach - back - side - stomach.....all night long.


Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
7w6cp
Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
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atone
Member

New Zealand
6633 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  2:01:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit atone's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by atone

It'd be kind of nice to sleep like a baby.


Screaming your head off and soiling yourself every hour-or-so?

[Stormy]




Babies don't scream whilst they're sleeping.

- atone
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savory
Member

3381 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  7:50:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit savory's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
Screaming your head off and soiling yourself every hour-or-so?

[Stormy]




Not if you were a baby like me, who slept through the night and tended to wake up casually to the smell of food. It has been dramatized into legend that I hardly ever cried.

------------------------------------------------
Meow
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Stormy
Member

16132 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2008 :  05:00:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by savorypie

Not if you were a baby like me, who slept through the night and tended to wake up casually to the smell of food. It has been dramatized into legend that I hardly ever cried.


Do you get on well with your parents?

[Stormy]
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savory
Member

3381 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2008 :  08:31:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit savory's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by savorypie

Not if you were a baby like me, who slept through the night and tended to wake up casually to the smell of food. It has been dramatized into legend that I hardly ever cried.


Do you get on well with your parents?

[Stormy]




For appearances' sake I suppose, but I have a lot of frustration with my dad, and I always have that feeling that I'm just that bit too intense for my mom at times.

Fairly on and off, ambivalent, inconsistent and tenuous relationship with both. Slightly more consistent with my mother.

------------------------------------------------
Meow
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nature
Member

2756 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2008 :  11:56:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit nature's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by Sturgeon48

I cannot sleep on my back it feels very unsafe.


Interesting, I think sleeping on your side feels more unsafe. Somebody could sneak up behind you, which they couldn't do if you were on your back. I actually trained myself to sleep on my back as a child, because I was afraid of the dark and didn't want ghoulies sneaking up behind me, ha. I'd sleep on my back surrounded by my favorite stuffed animals, and feel much more secure.


Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
7w6cp
Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style




It is interesting what reads as "safety". Logically, yes, on your back makes the most sense if what one fears is some kind of attack. However I can relate to a sense of safety that comes from hiding one's front. Not a practical safety, but a psychological one.

nature 4w3

When walking, just walk.
When sitting, just sit.
Above all, don't wobble


Umon
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Scandia
Member

USA
1650 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2008 :  2:02:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Scandia's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I sleep on my side. I sleep with a pillow between my legs for proper spinal alignment, plus one for my head of course. Otherwise I am rather uncomfortable. I have always had sleeping problems- they are not the result of any events.

ENTJ 3w4 SP/SO/SX SLOEI Inventive
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uchtungbaby
Member

Armenia
3400 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2008 :  11:16:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit uchtungbaby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I usually start off going to sleep by laying on my back coffin style with my hands clasped over my stomach. By the time morning arrives, I am usually leaning on my right side. I am left handed and so I favour laying on the right side of my body probably because it is the weaker side. With the left side of my body free to move, it becomes possible to haul myself into different positions for the purposes of waking up and getting out of bed.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the belief that it is probably best to sleep on the less dominant side of the body. If a person is left handed then they should favour leaning on the right side for purposes of rest. If a person is right handed then they should favour leaning on the left side during sleep. In this way, it becomes easier to haul ones self out of bed in the morning.

Sometimes coma patients are laid out in such a way that they lean on the dominant side of their body. Such patients will rarely achieve consciousness and wake from the coma. Modern medicine is unaware of this particular facet of the coma patient. It is probably also a major reason why cot death takes place with babies in the first two years of life. The baby is trapped onto its' dominant side during sleep and does not have the strength to haul itself out of the unconscious state and suffocates. I think that probably solves the mystery of cot death for anyone who cares to know.
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uchtungbaby
Member

Armenia
3400 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2008 :  12:22:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit uchtungbaby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Do you really think sleeping in certain positions affect the ability to regain consciousness?


Yes, I think that body positions are institutionalised in the sense that we learn to associate particular conscious states with particular body positions. For example, standing is associated with an awake state and laying down horizontal is associated with a state of rest. Sitting is a form of limbo where I suggest that I may become more or less active at a future point in time. Sitting in the morning implies that I will become active whereas sitting in the afternoon or evening implies that I am about to sleep. Sitting is the prelude to wakening or to sleep.

Likewise, there is a plethora of body positions which signal how the human individual is to respond or not respond in a given situation. In this sense we may say that body position initiates response or lack thereof.

quote:
Also it seems you are vesting more power to a human being than what would be considered to be within normal capacities. If someone were in an unconscious state how could they haul themselves out of this state considering the instinctive capability to haul oneself would require at least some sort of conscious awareness.



The clue in this statement can be found in the idea of a split between conscious and unconscious states. There is a belief that somehow a conscious state signals a greater sense of awareness then can be found in an unconscious state. The belief that one state derives any greater position of sentience than another derives from a wholesale human belief in the heirarchy of consciousness. We might for example believe that conscious states are more important than unconscious states and relegate a lesser role to the unconscious. Conversely, I might designate the unconscious supreme and then begin to impart a grammar of the unconscious where there is seen to be a relationship between the positions of the body and how they relate in a causal sense to states of awakening or sleep.

Put even more simply. The semantics of psychiatry through the alienist thoughts of psychotherapy trap us into a belief that one state of consciousness offers a better vantage point when awakening then does an alternative state of consciousness such as being 'unconscious' or 'conscious' for that matter. I think that this position is too hard to make and that we need to take a step back from the proposition and assert only those things which we may reasonably know.
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uchtungbaby
Member

Armenia
3400 Posts

Posted - 27 Jul 2008 :  11:27:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit uchtungbaby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
..In some cases, an infants sleep position might be a contributing factor. If the child was in a position in which they were incapable of moving and repositioning themselves and had obstructed air flow then this may cause suffocation. But its more likely SIDS is caused by a series of subtle physiological changes in the body which are beyond the child's control...


This is the standard line of reasoning used by lay people and medical personnel when they come into contact with the issue of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. It is the prevalent view because people are unwilling to accept that one or both parents kill the baby. If it became common knowledge that particular human couples behave in a ritualistic manner which ends up killing their offspring then, such people would be type cast into a sinister role and become social pariahs.

So instead of confronting the truth about why SIDS takes place, medical personnel and lay people alike either pretend or do not contemplate the possibility that the parents act in a manner which kills their baby.

If the medical establishment accepted the truth that particular humans are more prone to kill their offspring inadvertently through the act of living then, it would open a Pandora's box of potential criminal litigation. If we accept the truth that these parents are killing their offspring through their entrenched social habits then, is this not a form of manslaughter? Are we not dealing with a criminal offence punishable with a term of imprisonment?

So you see my view on SIDS is a view which people cannot contemplate because if they do so, then they must also act on that knowledge. Ignorance is bliss for such individuals and a little knowledge is dangerous or so the saying(s) goes. No parent wishes to be told that they are deliberately bad parents, even less wish to admit that they may be bad parents without knowing it. Few if any will admit in the aftermath of a death that they may be culpable for the event in a significantly informed court of law. After all, who in their right mind would wish to test a manslaughter charge in relation to a SIDS diagnosis?

The medical diagnosis sanitizes the event and prevents further research into the matter. Limits to what we may know about what is taking place in regards to these events shoulder upon our ability as human beings to reject the nature of conventionally accepted home truths in relation to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Quite literally, the diagnosis prevents further social enquiry into the matter because it is deemed a medical event as opposed to a social one criminal or otherwise. It becomes a question which medical science must deal with according to the experts. As a consequence, sociologists must take a back seat and observe without comment.

There are some striking facts in relation to the SIDS issue which go unaddressed because people fear being spat on. For example, SIDS is a rare event in China compared to western countries. This is probably because babies are sent away to day care virtually from birth. Consequently, the opportunity for the parent to impart the behaviour which kills is less frequent. It is less frequent because the parents are not with their offspring continuously both day and night. Again, as a result of the parents not being near the baby, the rate of SIDS is decidedly lower in China.
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DigitalCrash
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4435 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2008 :  12:42:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit DigitalCrash's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I love sleeping on my belly.

Now that I recall though, when I felt emotionally injured I always slept on my belly as if to guard/rest my chest, and looked towards the wall just to prevent people from seeing me, if I was crying.

Nowadays though, I really just sleep on my belly for the hell of it.

Though, I can understand how people that sleep on their belly's may be more inclined to be shy and stuff, whereas other people who sleep face up are more inclined to feel stronger and more confident.



2w3 So/Sx/Sp, ENFJ 2-5-9
"I once looked down upon those whom I thought were ostentatious. Now I prefer to simply be one. =)"
Zodiac:
Sagitarrius (Greek)
Horse (Chinese)
Owl (Native American)
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uchtungbaby
Member

Armenia
3400 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2008 :  11:10:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit uchtungbaby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
I'm having some difficulty accepting your position regarding SIDS, and feel sure that doctors thoroughly examine a child/infant when they have died to rule out the possibility of foul play. I really feel baffled at the idea of you casting parents into a sinister role as killers in the instance of SIDS. While I think cases may exist in which the scenario which you mention may be possible, for the most part, when a child dies of SIDS I think it must be an incredibly painful and heartwrenching experience for the child's parents. Also, most normal parents would probably suffer a great deal of guilt and self-blaming if this situation were to occur in their lives. Additionally, in a general sense, I find your villan-casting perspective very insensitive to anyone who may be a parent themselves.



Once again you have hit on the standard position which people take when confronted with the overwhelming and shocking truth.

Some food for thought.

The recorded incidence of baby killing was much higher prior to the introduction of the medical diagnosis we know of as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Prior to medicine introducing the medical diagnosis, it was not entirely uncommon for people to be investigated by police for infanticide(?) when a baby died. After the introduction of the SIDS diagnosis into mainstream society the recorded incidence of baby killing drops dramatically. Put simply, when the SIDS diagnosis became an option for a medical practitioner to ascribe to a death, the possibility of that death becoming an issue of criminal investigation diminished considerably.

What does it mean? Well, it means that individuals who might have entered the court system as accused persons become the focus of medical intervention designed to prevent further mishaps occurring should the individuals choose to have another child. In a broader sense, it means that as a society we forego the knowledge of criminality in the matter in preference to a view of accidental misfortune. Human society decides to accept an image of accident as opposed to cause when really it is quite the opposite. There are a clear set of causes in this category of death produced either intentionally in the case of murder or unintentionally in the case of manslaughter.

There are some very famous examples of hidden baby killing in British society for example which has some resonance with the SIDS myth. The British royal family has a very sharp pyramidal family structure which suggests what polite people term 'selective breeding'. Selective breeding is really a term which satirically hints at the fact that the royal family periodically committed baby killings prior to the nineteenth century to ensure a purity of lineage. Put simply, the Kings and Queens of England messed around alot with commoners and produced illegitimate offspring. To avoid the dilution of wealth which occurs when family sizes increase, the royal families of England (and other parts of Europe) would murder the babies. This truth is immortalised in a very famous novel titled The Man in the Iron Mask.

So it wasn't that long ago that killing babies was accepted tacitly and pushed under the rug through the guise of 'selective breeding'. Likewise the SIDS diagnosis is really a smokescreen for various types of baby killing as well.
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uchtungbaby
Member

Armenia
3400 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2008 :  01:48:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit uchtungbaby's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Unfortunately, contrary to what you may think, I'm not taking the standard position of one faced with the shocking truth. Like I mentioned in a previous response, the scenario you have presented has its validity under certain circumstances. But for the most part I feel SIDS is a strange phenomena which is based in physiological changes within an infants body, and may be caused by a combination of several factors. Additionally, any human death is investigated, at the very least by medical professionals and (if warranted) by the police, as well.




You find it hard to believe that a class of people exist in our society who could kill a baby and then feign the shock of loss. Sure enough you think that among a sampled grouping of couples who lose a baby there will be the exceptional case of murder or manslaughter through neglect. You feel that these instances are exceptions to the rule and that the great majority of people who lose a baby do so through accident or misfortune. Again you feel that through medical research a generic solution will be found to an unforseen problem in the guise of SIDS.

I must remark that in the vast majority of cases the medical research is futile because the parents kill the baby. Sometimes it is through intentional neglect other times it is because of ignorance. It is difficult for people to contemplate the idea of a criminal class because when we think of crime we think of lone individuals as opposed to a segment of the population predisposed to particular behaviours which cause harm.

When I think of this situation I am reminded of one way in which suffocation was traditionally administered to babies in 19-20th century Britain. When a baby was unwanted the mother might sometimes grab a teacup and place it over the face of the baby. The tea cup was cupped firmly over the face and the baby was made to suffocate. The tea cup left very little evidence of the event because all markings occurred at the periphery of the face of the baby. Usually suffocation involves strangulation or cupping the mouth and nose of the baby with the hand. When mothers used teacups to cause suffocation, it is reputed that there were no telltale signs of the event such as bruising in the immediate area et cetera., It is said that the teacup was particularly useful because it left little bruising and any blood tended to pool at the back of the head in any case.

I guess that there is something to be learned from this story and that is that having a baby is a big responsibility and people do terrible things when confronted with the pressure of parenthood.

quote:
We don't live in nineteenth century England.


It wasn't that long ago.
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