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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 6:33:53 PM
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R&H, type 9 level 5,
The Passively Disengaged Person.
Because their emotional stability depends on maintaining
their inner world of beliefs and idealizations, average
9s at this stage fear change.
type 9 at level 4,
The accommodating Role Player.
The problem is that average 9s begin to feel that their
role in life is to fulfill others rather than themselves.
Fearing to assert themselves, they become self-effacing
and accommodating.
Key word; "problem"
Ron
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 6:42:20 PM
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Yeah.. if Obama is a 9 he is not at level 4 or 5. I have said that before. As the EIDB just said. That's clear.
3w4 at level 4 could fit. 3w4 at level 5 does not.
It is a matter of health no matter type.
but as I said.. I will promote 3w4.. but I hope the EIDB stops trying to peg Obama with one liners. It's galling.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 24 Jan 2009 7:02:11 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 6:47:40 PM
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quote:
[quote]Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
Everyone,
We believe that everyone on this Board, and on this important thread in particular, is trying to learn the truth about Barack Obama's type. It's important because understanding his type correctly gives insight into the way his mind works, his approach to decision-making, his truthfulness and strength of character--and lots of other important qualities that affect the world in a President.
The "I won" comment, off camera, is indicative of someone who is self-conscious about his image--he is more candid and revealing to his closest aides, something which the public does not see.
--
The Enneagram Institute
It was Rep. Eric Cantor, R-Va. that chose to take it off camera. Obama made sure his reply was not hidden from the public and made it public.
Just to clear the facts up.
It might be true that Obama chose that moment when he was challenged to assert his leadership.. knowing in the back of his mind...that it could not be replayed over and over on TV and youtube next to Bush's leadership assertions.
But Obama did not try to cover anything up and was not the one who chose the back-and-forth off camera to begin with.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 24 Jan 2009 7:04:34 PM |
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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 7:01:40 PM
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R&H
childhood origins for type 1.
1s develop as they do because as children they identify
negatively with their fathers or father substitute. Their
negatively orientation to their fathers, and what their
fathers symbolized, was of central importance to the
development of their superegos; these children learned
to fear condemnation and to avoid it be always attempting
to be blameless.
It is also worth noting that they did not rebel against
strictures on themselves, rather, they internalized control
in their consciences by feeling guilty for their transgressions.
Nevertheless they felt angry that the burden of perfection was
placed on them, and more angry still when they saw others who
were not subject to the same control of their feelings and impulses.
The freedom of others ( to 1s, the license which others grant themselves) antagonizes then and makes them chafe under the weight
of their own prohibitions .
R&H
I do not see this in Obama.
Ron
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Edited by - .ron4 on 24 Jan 2009 7:21:32 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 7:03:32 PM
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Don't you start trying to sell 9w1 now that you smell blood, ron. lol
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 7:08:39 PM
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R&H
childhood origins type 8.
Ambivalent to mother.
Before long 8s learned to be comfortable
dominating others without guilt or fear
of retribution.
I do not see this in Obama.
Ron
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Edited by - .ron4 on 24 Jan 2009 7:22:13 PM |
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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2009 : 7:17:07 PM
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R&4
Did anybody hear me say, I've changed my mind. I don't think so.
Ron
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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 01:52:34 AM
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Inspired by the EI.
a poem
Oh say can you see
Obama’s a three
Not a one nor a nine
In his type did we find
We looked for him high
We looked for him low
We looked in the middle
We wanted to know
It’s not that he’s lost
He’s already found
Just open your eyes
And now look around
Was that so hard
Could you do it again
To type someone
That says “I win, I win”
Ronn
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 11:43:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Solasd
Within the first four days of his Presidency, he's already bombed Pakistan. This is not a good sign of things to come. There is unrest brewing in the Middle East over Gaza, with Arab countries beginning to unite against Israel and America... sounds like there are many sides willing to do a whole lot of destroying, including America. Hope everyone is ready for the sacrifices he's asked you to make - they are likely to be costly.quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
"To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West — know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy."
And that... that single line.. is a key insight into what to expect from Obama in the next 4 years.
Solasd, it's good to see that you're not another black-and-white thinker with an emotion-fueled agenda. Good job.
********* / *
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 2:18:17 PM
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Can someone tell me how GW Bush and Ronald Reagan are similar personalities? I'm not talking about policy or actions on the world stage; rather, gestures, posture, body-movement, energy/vibe/emanation, subtleties in facial expression, verbal cadence, communication style, etc.
If we put Eisenhower, Reagan, Ford and Bush in the same room together, which one is the nervous fellow who can't seem to settle down and get ready for nap time?
********* / *
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ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 2:54:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
However, if one reads the text of the Nine (following) for the equivalent Levels (2 to 5) with Obama in mind, one might see him in Level 2 and a some in Level 3, but almost not at all in Levels 4 and 5. This would mean that, if he is actually a Nine, Obama would have to be opereating ONLY IN THE HEALTHY LEVELS--a very improbable thing, indeed.
It's also possible, isn't it, that Obama truly is a Nine but doesn't fit what you imagine a Nine to be? |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:00:32 PM
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quote:
Within the first four days of his Presidency, he's already bombed Pakistan. This is not a good sign of things to come. There is unrest brewing in the Middle East over Gaza, with Arab countries beginning to unite against Israel and America... sounds like there are many sides willing to do a whole lot of destroying, including America. Hope everyone is ready for the sacrifices he's asked you to make - they are likely to be costly.
Well, Obama already told us he was going to strike Pakistan in targeted hits on Al-Qaeda . Obama told us that the summer before last in the primary debates. He told us that before our CIA starting implementing the strikes. A few weeks later.. after Obama said he would aim target strikes.. our CIA struck Pakistan in a pin point hit. We killed Bin Laden's second in command. For over a year we have been taking out Bin Laden's nest. The American military has developed new operational capabilities to locate, target and kill leaders of al-Qaeda. I'm pretty sure it has to do with our satellite systems but so far they are keeping a tight lid on details. It seems to be working very well. Obama made it clear again in the town hall debate with Mccain that he would keep up with the targeted strikes inside Pakistan. If Bin Laden is alive.. we are the closet to capture and killing him than we have been in a long, long time.
Getting Bin Laden will be the figure head most American's have been wishing for. Once he is brought down it will be easier to withdraw.
If Obama is a 3w4 there is little doubt Bin Laden is in deep trouble. 3w4's are winners and know how to finish first and reach there goals.
Obama has a very clear goal of bringing Bin Laden down.
I would not want Barack Obama to have a target on my tail.
That guy knows how to get things done. lol
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 25 Jan 2009 3:02:14 PM |
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dboon
Member
1006 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:02:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
Can someone tell me how GW Bush and Ronald Reagan are similar personalities?
Both slow.. both had swagger <often attributed to 6 males, a mistake>, both had secretive attitudes, both had a posse who rose to occasion to protect their omnipotent images, both smug as hell.. both insulated.. mentally, physically.. emotionally.
Kinda like a guy I've seen on TV lately...
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:02:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
Can someone tell me how GW Bush and Ronald Reagan are similar personalities? I'm not talking about policy or actions on the world stage; rather, gestures, posture, body-movement, energy/vibe/emanation, subtleties in facial expression, verbal cadence, communication style, etc.
If we put Eisenhower, Reagan, Ford and Bush in the same room together, which one is the nervous fellow who can't seem to settle down and get ready for nap time?
********* / *
The way I see it, every person of the same type has a different signature...some have a strong wing, some a weak wing. Some have a strong connection to their point of disintegration or integration, some seemingly little or none. Some healthy; others not. Some are strongly affected by a parent's enneatype or are merged with a partner, others not so much - so it's not always easy to see what's central. (Also, the E only really describes fixation, not personality in its entirety - the "personality types" aren't actually describing personality as a whole, as personality is more complex than fixation.)
With G.W., I just see him as being profoundly disintegrated, so he picks up a lot of nervous energy. (The dick Cheney also has a disintegrated personality.... a profoundly disintegrated Eight with Nine imo.) I do completely see why many people have typed G.W. as a Six with Seven. But, as to your question about nap time, G.W. has no problem sleeping. I remember Laura being interviewed right after 911 and she mentioned that he slept well that night. She said that sleeping well was one of his gifts! He "checks out" a lot. Lots of vacations, lots of blank stares. Also, I do understand that not all Sixes are smart or intellectual, but they do over think and suffer from monkey mind...and G.W. doesn't. He just decides and that's that. He doesn't worry it to death.
I also see his physical stance as looking very double instinctive...very tight and grounded. Reminds me a bit of McCain actually. You just have to flip type and wing as they have the same instinctual stacking.
Still, lots and lots of people do see him as a Six and I can understand why what with all the twitches and nervous movements, the us vs. them thinking and the paranoia. I see him as embodying the principle of disintegration.
There are lots and lots of threads on it, some of them go way back, if you are interested. |
Edited by - marie on 25 Jan 2009 3:36:39 PM |
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JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:12:30 PM
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nice job marie. I see him differently now.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:17:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
R&4
Did anybody hear me say, I've changed my mind. I don't think so.
Ron
No, but you are making a case for 9w1 all the same. It is clear Obama has type 1 issues and daddy issues.
It is also clear that Obama has shadow wing issues... that fit perfect with 8.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 25 Jan 2009 3:18:42 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:20:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoL
nice job marie. I see him differently now.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
I have always found it hard not to gush over marie the same way ron gushes over R & H. She is a gift to this board.
but... I don't think she is into toe sucking. lol
So, I try to keep it at bay as much I can.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 25 Jan 2009 3:25:32 PM |
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JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:21:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
quote:
Originally posted by JoL
nice job marie. I see him differently now.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
I have always found it hard not to gush over marie the same way ron gushes over R & H. lol
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8
I could gush over you too lila. You also express yourself really well.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
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Edited by - JoL on 25 Jan 2009 3:24:24 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:24:04 PM
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Awww, I love 9's. BTW, I saw your photo and you are beautiful in a very warm way. 
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
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JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:27:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Awww, I love 9's. BTW, I saw your photo and you are beautiful in a very warm way.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8
Thanks lila. My 3 soul child was hoping someone would say something like that.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:30:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
[quote]Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
However, if one reads the text of the Nine (following) for the equivalent Levels (2 to 5) with Obama in mind, one might see him in Level 2 and a some in Level 3, but almost not at all in Levels 4 and 5. This would mean that, if he is actually a Nine, Obama would have to be opereating ONLY IN THE HEALTHY LEVELS--a very improbable thing, indeed.
I could see him as having been in levels four and five of type Nine when younger (whereas you guys have him disintegrated for years at a time)...but I do concede that, if he's a Nine, he has to be a just a bit healthier overall than if he's a Three, in order to account for his ambition and energy etc. I give him a pretty big One wing though. Emphasizing the wing improves the typing of Obama as a Nine. Ones have tons of energy when they focus on something and God knows they do focus quite well. Also, a big One wing accounts for his idealism and commitment to integrity, which I do see as sincere.
If we go with Three and give Obama a pretty big Four wing to account for his internality and sensitivity to symbolism (something lots of Nines have naturally), then we have to sacrifice some of his energy and capacity for extroversion - so that's a little bit messy imo. If we give him a light Four wing, we ought to see more obvious shallow narcissism, especially with him being social first. I just don't see it. That "I won" comment just doesn't cut it at all, as all of the Nine presidents have been willing to go there. (Can't see social Three with Four Jimmy Carter doing it though....too much of a wuss.)
Your analysis generates another problem. You are complaining that those who are typing him as a Nine have to place him exclusively in healthy levels, but you sometimes seem to verge on that as well when typing him as a Three. As I see it, he's either a Three at levels three to five, as you have it or he is a healthy Three who has access to his missing piece, as you also have it. (As I understand it that kind of integration of the missing piece only takes place at very healthy levels.) So, that's kind of messy too. Anyway, you can't have it both ways.
There's just no way that he is a social Three who hangs out at level Five. That would just be too obvious. So, if he's a Three, he doesn't drop below level four whereas if he's a Nine, probably not below level three (in adulthood anyway). Not a real big difference there actually. Anyway, there's a huge leap between levels four and three - the fact that he seems to have made it either way is pretty interesting. |
Edited by - marie on 25 Jan 2009 6:00:02 PM |
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dboon
Member
1006 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:46:05 PM
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I think the image of Obama hanging out with his SS just around the side exit, cranking out a Newport should be considered in 'levels of health'.. If 6 = dependency.. um.. nevermind. lol.
My point being.. he's 'checking out'. |
Edited by - dboon on 25 Jan 2009 3:53:16 PM |
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ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:49:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dboon
I think the image of Obama hanging out with his SS just around the side exit, cranking out a Newport should be considered in 'levels of health'.. If 6 = dependency.. um.. nevermind. lol.
Good. |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 3:55:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
The way I see it, every person of the same type has a different signature...some have a strong wing, some a weak wing. Some have a strong connection to their point of disintegration or integration, some seemingly little or none. Some are strongly affected by a parent's enneatype or a merged with a partner, others not so much - so it's not always easy to see what's central. (Also, the E only really describes fixation, not personality in its entirety - the "personality types" aren't actually describing personality as a whole, as personality is more complex than fixation.)
With G.W., I just see him as being profoundly disintegrated, so he picks up a lot of nervous energy. (dick Cheney also has a disintegrated personality.... a profoundly disintegrated Eight with Nine.) I do completely see why many people have typed G.W. as a Six with Seven. But, as to your question about nap time, G.W. has no problem sleeping. I remember Laura being interviewed right after 911 and she mentioned that he slept well that night. She said that sleeping well was one of his gifts! He "checks out" a lot. Lots of vacations, lots of blank stares. Also, I do understand that not all Sixes are smart or intellectual, but they do over think and suffer from monkey mind...and G.W. doesn't. He just decides and that's that. He doesn't worry it to death.
I also see his physical stance as looking very double instinctive...very tight and grounded. Reminds me a bit of McCain actually. You just have to flip type and wing as they have the same instinctual stacking.
Still, lots and lots of people do see him as a Six and I can understand why. I see him as embodying the principle of disintegration.
There are lots and lots of threads on it, some of them go way back, if you are interested.
I've never seen Bush 'check out' in a public setting. With Nines, I see it happening in multiple micro-moments, at pauses in sentences, saying 'uhh', etc. I've never seen Bush drop his wildness-of-eye. Every counter-passionate 'hyper-active' Nine I've met has a sleepwalking element that's easy to discern.
Reagan had no equivalent to Bush's widespread-arms cowboy pose. This is the kind of thing I'm asking for - where's the defensive cowboy as a body affect in Reagan, Ford, Ike?
Nine-ness is a body thing. Show me the body.
Again, if Bush and Cheney were "profoundly disintegrated", they wouldn't have been able to carry out the functions of state, and their psychological health, itself (not the wisdom or 'health' of their policies), would be the subject of direct media speculation. It would be the 'talk of the town' - think of the Britney Spears meltdown. A person living at Levels 7-9 will be seen clearly, by laymen and psychologist alike, as being unstable.
********* / *
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 4:09:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
I've never seen Bush 'check out' in a public setting. With Nines, I see it happening in multiple micro-moments, at pauses in sentences, saying 'uhh', etc. I've never seen Bush drop his wildness-of-eye. Every counter-passionate 'hyper-active' Nine I've met has a sleepwalking element that's easy to discern.
Reagan had no equivalent to Bush's widespread-arms cowboy pose. This is the kind of thing I'm asking for - where's the defensive cowboy as a body affect in Reagan, Ford, Ike?
Nine-ness is a body thing. Show me the body.
Again, if Bush and Cheney were "profoundly disintegrated", they wouldn't have been able to carry out the functions of state, and their psychological health, itself (not the wisdom or 'health' of their policies), would be the subject of direct media speculation. It would be the 'talk of the town' - think of the Britney Spears meltdown. A person living at Levels 7-9 will be seen clearly, by laymen and psychologist alike, as being unstable.
********* / *
I guess it's best to agree to disagree on this one. It's been discussed to death at this point. I am not really trying to convince you, just trying to explain why many people think G.W. is a Nine.
But as for your point about profound disintegration - it's not the same thing as psychosis and according to Enneagram theory, as I understand it, disintegration begins to occur at average levels of health. A Nine at level Six for instance, would pick up the energies of a Six at that same level. Some people just seem more prone to it than others. But, as a defense mechanism, it is almost designed to prevent a slip into states which are completely dysfunctional.
As to whether Bush and company have been carrying out the functions of state...well, again, I guess we just have to disagree on that one as well. |
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2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
