| Author |
 Topic  |
|
pork
Member
USA
3089 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 9:18:37 PM
|
Solasd: why not point out some of Obama's average/unhealthier patterns that identify more with E9 than E3?
As I established earlier in this thread, I am not an Obama expert, and thus, my role in this discussion is limited mostly to the general caveat regarding uninformed uses of the system in general.
In this case, I point out the problems that may arise with the approach whereby phrases are selected for boldfacing, which may give the illusion of forcible argument but whose most effective role is actually decontextualization, which is particularly inappropriate to Enneagram personality theory.
As for your particular question, our resident Obama experts have already described many of his average-Nine tendencies, particularly those he displayed in his youth and prior to his campaign, before he either got healthier or acquired a team of image consultants or both; read this thread and the two other recent threads on this subject if you have not already.
^(oo)^
4w3-6w5-8w9
SP/SX
INFJ |
 |
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 9:31:34 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
For the last 2 years 70% of America have had concern over Bush. So much so that he has left office with record low approval ratings and has tanked the GOP as low as they have been in decades.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8
You're not listening to what I've been clearly saying - I'm not talking about policy.
I'd suggest that it's particularly unusual for a president to go to health Level 6 (or lower). Levels 4 and 5 would be typical homebase, with some tapping Level 3, on occasion.
Relative stability of health level (as an innate character feature) is probably a prerequisite for presidents and other 'successful' politicians - by that I mean that the public makes a decision, somewhere in a collective thought-cloud in the sky, not to elect a president who is erratic, healthwise.
Nixon might be a noteworthy exception - hanging out at Levels 6 and 7.
Bush suffers from bad ideas, not acute neurosis. He has, for the most part, no facility for abstract thought, which points more towards 6 than 9.
And the conversation about Bush's type is important to the topic of this thread. I say, 'bring it on'. 
********* / *
|
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2009 : 9:55:28 PM
|
quote:
You're not listening to what I've been clearly saying - I'm not talking about policy.
Katrina was not policy. Katrina came on the heels of Bob Woodward's book - State of Denial: Bush at War, Part III.
in that book he does a masterful job at explaining a type 9 at level 6. And then Katrina hit... and under scored every observation Bod Woodward had made. After that.. there were few in Washington and beyond that did not understand something was "wrong" with GW.
I have gone round and round with you about Bush. I'm truly sick of thinking about him. I answered because you addressed me but I have already made it clear I don't want to play any more with the topic.
I'm done.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 25 Jan 2009 9:58:53 PM |
|
|
|
Habanero
Member
1197 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 01:48:54 AM
|
One thing I've observed about 3w4s...Despite wanting to be in control of their self image, 3w4's are often oblivious to how they are actually coming across. It's a huge blind spot for them. I'll be on the lookout for these traits in President Obama.
(Naming names: Kevin Spacey, Madonna, Tom Cruise . . .) |
Edited by - Habanero on 26 Jan 2009 02:11:59 AM |
|
|
|
Habanero
Member
1197 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 02:08:41 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by marie
Your analysis generates another problem. You are complaining that those who are typing him as a Nine have to place him exclusively in healthy levels, but you sometimes seem to verge on that as well when typing him as a Three. As I see it, he's either a Three at levels three to five, as you have it or he is a healthy Three who has access to his missing piece, as you also have it. (As I understand it that kind of integration of the missing piece only takes place at very healthy levels.) So, that's kind of messy too. Anyway, you can't have it both ways.
Thank you, thank you. You've articulated what has been bothering me but I just couldn't put my finger on it....
|
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
|
|
Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:07:08 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Obama's unsung hero
What type is he. He played a very big part in Obama winning.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/25/obamas-unsung-hero/
7w8 istp "the tactician". He's been typed here, already. Marie thought 7w6. One of those. Definitely not 9w1. I've thought that David Axelrod might be 9w1, though. |
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:13:51 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Habanero
One thing I've observed about 3w4s...Despite wanting to be in control of their self image, 3w4's are often oblivious to how they are actually coming across. It's a huge blind spot for them. I'll be on the lookout for these traits in President Obama.
(Naming names: Kevin Spacey, Madonna, Tom Cruise . . .)
Very good point of distinction.
Hemmingway told F. Scott Fitzgerald that he couldn't concieve good characters (or something like that) because he didn't know anyone but himself and Zelda. Self-absorption.
(fogot I had this on my site)
Fitzgerald's weakness of showing off
"The attractive, egoistic, socially insecure boy now revealed a crucial lifelong flaw in his character which would hurt him as a writer. He had a weakness of showing off instead of listening and observing, and was unaware of the effect he had on others. "I didn't know till 15," Fitzgerald said, "that there was anyone in the world except me, and it cost me plenty." Two of his closest friends later criticized the narcissistic self-absorption that limited Fitzgerald's understanding of other men and women (Meyers, 1994, 10)."
Here's the rest of the quote of Meyers:
"Sara Murphy wrote, with some exaggeration: "I have always told you you haven't the faintest idea what anybody else but yourself is like." And Hemingway, who agreed with her, told their editor Max Perkins: "Scott can't invent true characters because he doesn't know anything about people" (Meyers, F. Scott Fitzgerald, 1994, pg. 10). |
Edited by - ptypes on 26 Jan 2009 11:56:38 AM |
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:17:38 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Obama's unsung hero
What type is he. He played a very big part in Obama winning.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/25/obamas-unsung-hero/
7w8 istp "the tactician". He's been typed here, already. Marie thought 7w6. One of those. Definitely not 9w1. I've thought that David Axelrod might be 9w1, though.
So, you see similarities between David Plouffe and Naomi Campbell?
********* / *
|
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:20:01 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Obama's unsung hero
What type is he. He played a very big part in Obama winning.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/25/obamas-unsung-hero/
7w8 istp "the tactician". He's been typed here, already. Marie thought 7w6. One of those. Definitely not 9w1. I've thought that David Axelrod might be 9w1, though.
So, you see similarities between David Plouffe and Naomi Campbell?
No. |
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:24:04 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
No.
David Plouffe and Jack Nicholson?
********* / *
|
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:25:38 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
No.
David Plouffe and Jack Nicholson?
No further comments by me on this issue on this thread. |
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:32:50 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
No.
David Plouffe and Jack Nicholson?
********* / *
I see Jack Nicholson as a sx/soc Seven with Eight. Harvey Milk also - another sx/soc. Real flamboyant, expansive, lots of fun. Rahm seems like a soc/sx Seven with Eight. (None of them remind me of Palin - one of the reasons I doubt the EI's typing of her as a Sx Seven with Eight. She's not that flamboyant or fun; she does want to expand her little fiefdom though. Takes herself real seriously.)
Plouffe is a bit harder...but he seems like a double head type to me...I could see Seven with Six or Six with Seven.
Axelrod seems like an uber-Nine to me. It might as well be written on his forehead it's so obvious. In my always humble opinion. |
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:42:05 AM
|
Plouffe is "innocent". He's a "nice young man". This points away from 7.
Axelrod is cagey and 'strategic' by nature. Not a 9.
********* / *
|
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:49:41 AM
|
BTW, Nicholson is sp/sx. 'Social' is not a comfort zone for him.
********* / *
|
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 11:51:31 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
BTW, Nicholson is sp/sx. 'Social' is not a comfort zone for him.
********* / *
I like Jack...but he is a complete vulgarian and very expansive. Absolutely not sp first.
I think we are working with different systems actually. So really there's no point. |
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 12:32:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by marie
[quote]Originally posted by ptypes
Btw, I think Caroline Kennedy is a member of your tribe. I think she would have been a good Senator also. She just couldn't handle the invasion of her privacy and the disrespect.
I think that Caroline Kennedy and Obama's mother share a similar temperament and the same type: 9w1. I also see a physical resemblance. Obama, his mother, and his maternal grandfather are all 9w1. |
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 12:41:28 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by marie
I like Jack...but he is a complete vulgarian and very expansive. Absolutely not sp first.
I think we are working with different systems actually. So really there's no point.
sp/sx = sensual indulgence and a festering belligerence.
The extroversion in his personality type has you seeing 'soc' in the stack. He's actually shy and awkward in social settings. A Seven with a middle soc is the definition of 'gregariousness'.
Sp/sx adds 'dark' to one's picture.
At a party, will he pull one woman into a corner for a hushed intimate conversation, or stand in the middle and regale the crowd with his stories?
********* / *
|
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
|
|
Topic |
|
2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
