| Author |
 Topic  |
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 12:53:01 PM
|
Ann Dunham - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
"In an interview, Obama referred to his mother as "the dominant figure in my formative years... The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics."[3]" |
Edited by - ptypes on 26 Jan 2009 12:54:43 PM |
 |
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 1:34:46 PM
|
| That's one of the reason why I type Jack 7w6 not 7w8. He's kind of dumpy. |
Edited by - ptypes on 26 Jan 2009 1:38:37 PM |
|
|
|
JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 1:39:40 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
quote:
Originally posted by marie
[quote]Originally posted by ptypes
Btw, I think Caroline Kennedy is a member of your tribe. I think she would have been a good Senator also. She just couldn't handle the invasion of her privacy and the disrespect.
I think that Caroline Kennedy and Obama's mother share a similar temperament and the same type: 9w1. I also see a physical resemblance. Obama, his mother, and his maternal grandfather are all 9w1.
That would account for the 9/1 being highly developed.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
|
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 1:43:47 PM
|
Biden' fashion sense.
http://www.gop.com/News/NewsRead.aspx?GUID=11b7c4b7-c708-4a63-9d09-789183ef4364
"Joe Biden's sense of style has long been: Never let them see you rumpled.
"As Barack Obama's running mate, Biden will be basking in the national and international limelight like never before.
"Yet the Delaware senator has long understood that first impressions are lasting. He may sometimes put his foot in his mouth, but the 65-year-old is also known for putting a natty foot forward.
"Local style arbiters believe that Biden's bastion of old school fashion savoir-faire -- from his carefully coifed head and dazzling white teeth to crisp shirts and neatly polished shoes -- will continue to serve him well with the very picky fashion police.
"I think Joe has a very American high style. Very Ralph Lauren. He has a commanding look about him, but it's a sophisticated look as well. It's very approachable," says Michael Christopher Hemphill, owner of Wilmington's Michael Christopher Hair Salon." |
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 1:45:57 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JoL
That would account for the 9/1 being highly developed.
It could also be a matter of genetic endowment, that is, temperament. |
|
|
|
ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 1:55:32 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
Biden' fashion sense.
http://www.gop.com/News/NewsRead.aspx?GUID=11b7c4b7-c708-4a63-9d09-789183ef4364
"Part of Biden's elegant style can be attributed to his "good body type," says Leonard Simon, owner of the Wright & Simon men's clothing store on Market Street in Wilmington.
"Joe is handsome and thin, and he looks good in his clothes. Certain people look good in clothes and he does. He's tall and slender. That's a good look for any person. He always look sharp and crisp," Simon says." |
|
|
|
JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 2:03:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
quote:
Originally posted by JoL
That would account for the 9/1 being highly developed.
It could also be a matter of genetic endowment, that is, temperament.
agreed.
9-7-4sx/sp/so XNFP
|
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 3:02:09 PM
|
quote:
Plouffe is a bit harder...but he seems like a double head type to me...I could see Seven with Six or Six with Seven.
Axelrod seems like an uber-Nine to me. It might as well be written on his forehead it's so obvious. In my always humble opinion.
thanks. I was thinking 6w7 for Plouffe. He reminds me so much of my son who is only 8 but clearly a 6w7. He is very gifted in mathematics and working out new ways of operating systems within a pre-established system. He is top of his class but is very much a team player and does not like to stand out too much. He is loyal to his groups of friends and very much cares about his teachers approval.
I could see him growing up to be a lot like Plouffe. He even has that same kind of boyish cuteness.
Plouffe came up with Obama's winning 'strategy' in the primaries.. and did it with a great understanding of the mathematics involved inside a system. That is how my son's mind works. I think the 7 wing helps them reach out and find new ways of working in the pre-established system.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 26 Jan 2009 3:35:18 PM |
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 4:32:10 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
Ann Dunham - Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
"In an interview, Obama referred to his mother as "the dominant figure in my formative years... The values she taught me continue to be my touchstone when it comes to how I go about the world of politics."[3]"
This gives insight into there relationship.
"And yet for all her professed secularism, my mother was in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I’ve ever known. She had an unswerving instinct for kindness, charity, and love, and spent much of her life acting on that instinct, sometimes to her detriment. Without the help of religious texts or outside authorities, she worked mightily to instill in me the values that many Americans learn in Sunday school: honesty, empathy, discipline, delayed gratification, and hard work. She raged at poverty and injustice, and scorned those who were indifferent to both.
Most of all, she possessed an abiding sense of wonder, a reverence for life and its precious, transitory nature that could properly be described as devotional. During the course of the day, she might come across a painting, read a line of poetry, or hear a piece of music, and I would see tears well up in her eyes. Sometimes, as I was growing up, she would wake me up in the middle of the night to have me gaze at a particularly spectacular moon, or she would have me close my eyes as we walked together at twilight to listen to the rustle of the leaves. She loved to take children....any child....and sit them in her lap and tickle them or play games with them or examine their hands, tracing out the miracle of bone and tendon and skin and delighting at the truths to be found there. She saw mysteries everywhere and took joy in the sheer strangeness of life.
It is only in retrospect, of course, that I fully understand how deeply this spirit of hers influenced me....how it sustained me despite the absence of my father in the house, how it buoyed me through the rocky shoals of my adolescence, and how it invisibly guided the path I would ultimately take. My ambitions might have been fueled by my father....by my knowledge of his achievements and failures, by my unspoken desire to somehow earn his love, and by my resentments and anger toward him (very 1ish, btw). But it was my mother’s fundamental faith...in the goodness of people and in the ultimate value of this brief life we’ve been given...that channeled those ambitions. It was in search of confirmation of her values that I studied political philosophy, looking for both a language and system of action that could help build community and make justice real. And it was in search of some practical application of those values that I accepted work after college as a community organizer for a group of churches in Chicago that were trying to cope with joblessness, drugs, and hopelessness in their midst."
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 26 Jan 2009 4:34:30 PM |
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 4:36:56 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by marie
I like Jack...but he is a complete vulgarian and very expansive. Absolutely not sp first.
I think we are working with different systems actually. So really there's no point.
sp/sx = sensual indulgence and a festering belligerence.
The extroversion in his personality type has you seeing 'soc' in the stack. He's actually shy and awkward in social settings. A Seven with a middle soc is the definition of 'gregariousness'.
Sp/sx adds 'dark' to one's picture.
At a party, will he pull one woman into a corner for a hushed intimate conversation, or stand in the middle and regale the crowd with his stories?
********* / *
I'll go with the the regaling on that one.
 |
Edited by - marie on 26 Jan 2009 4:56:09 PM |
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 4:44:56 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
That's one of the reason why I type Jack 7w6 not 7w8. He's kind of dumpy.
I see some elegant Six wingers and some elegant Eight wingers...but overall, I think we have reversed things as I see Eight wingers as being more prone to vulgar excess and extravagant hedonism; eventually this shows in the physique.
I think Biden could be a Seven with Six. He's really having a lot of fun. But he has a very big wing in my opinion, so Six with Seven also works.
Analytically (looking externally at the overall arch of his life as the EI does for Obama), he comes out more as a Six, but energetically, he seems more Seven to me. |
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 4:47:02 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
quote:
Plouffe is a bit harder...but he seems like a double head type to me...I could see Seven with Six or Six with Seven.
Axelrod seems like an uber-Nine to me. It might as well be written on his forehead it's so obvious. In my always humble opinion.
thanks. I was thinking 6w7 for Plouffe. He reminds me so much of my son who is only 8 but clearly a 6w7. He is very gifted in mathematics and working out new ways of operating systems within a pre-established system. He is top of his class but is very much a team player and does not like to stand out too much. He is loyal to his groups of friends and very much cares about his teachers approval.
I could see him growing up to be a lot like Plouffe. He even has that same kind of boyish cuteness.
Plouffe came up with Obama's winning 'strategy' in the primaries.. and did it with a great understanding of the mathematics involved inside a system. That is how my son's mind works. I think the 7 wing helps them reach out and find new ways of working in the pre-established system.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8
Six with Seven works for me. You are right that he doesn't like to stand out too much. What do you see as his stacking? |
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 4:52:02 PM
|
Hm.
That is harder.
sp/sx or sp/so would be my first guess. But I'm not sure.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 4:55:14 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Hm.
That is harder.
sp/sx or sp/so would be my first guess. But I'm not sure.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8
Lol...I was leaning that way as well. |
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 5:14:25 PM
|
BTW, as a left winger... Obama is delighting me.
He does not seem to be afraid of keeping his campaign promises to the left. Seems those promises were built upon a strong personal value system... and not on empty suit game show man bsing.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 26 Jan 2009 5:21:01 PM |
|
|
|
Habanero
Member
1197 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 7:01:03 PM
|
"And it was in search of some practical application of those values that I accepted work after college as a community organizer for a group of churches in Chicago that were trying to cope with joblessness, drugs, and hopelessness in their midst."
I too have been motivated by similar values and every time I’ve pulled my career in this direction, E3’s have slammed me for it. They just don’t get it. E3’s I know base their esteem on what the larger society values as esteemed, and in this country, it’s money and status. (I’d say education but only to the extent that it is in service to the former). It is certainly not championing the rights of the underserved. This is quite a huge contradiction. Again, he might be an unhealthy 3 slacking at 9, allowing himself to be underemployed. That might be the explanation. Anyways, he does exhibit ambition by leaving to pursue a law degree for reasons (he says) of preparing himself to better serve the underserved. This theme repeats itself again when he declines taking the “fast track” after graduating from Harvard, and instead practices civil rights law. Interesting choices for a 3 if it were simply all about self esteem based on prestige and winning top spots.
People comment that the speed at which he ascended to the presidency is proof of hard work and competitiveness...and it is. But I do think he is an idea whose time has come. (And his ideas have been consistent and solidified long before his political career ever started). He doesn’t have to work too hard to come off as authentic and this is what people are impressed with. (In contrast to the 3ish notion that he simply adapting to the current zeitgeist). I think the collective wisdom of this country selected him in a desire to self correct and heal. And he seems well aware of this and readily acknowledges this.
More stuff:
E3 - Idealism as more individualistic. Improving oneself, acknowledging possibilities for one’s of growth, making goals and achieving them – helping others do the same. “self help”. “Being a role model” or “If I want to change the world, I need to start with myself.”
E1 - Idealism that is more global in nature – improving the conditions of others by removing the systemic barriers, (race, poverty etc) by means of justice, a sense of fairness. “Doing the right thing.” “ If I want to change the world I need to start with the world.”
Again, I may be missing a lot of information, but President Obama’s idealism seems to be of the E1 variety. His career choices seem to indicate a desire for social justice. But then again, I don’t have knowledge of his non public life. I reserve the right to declare him a Three once evidence starts piling in that direction.  |
|
|
|
lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 7:18:09 PM
|
Yes, that insight from Obama has E1 all over it.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 26 Jan 2009 7:22:23 PM |
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 7:49:13 PM
|
Plouffe is sp/so. I was wrong about soc-first, on second thought.
********* / *
|
|
|
|
bear
Member
USA
4072 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 9:33:02 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by bear
Diane Rehm... can be streamed later.
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/
Readers' Review: "Dreams from My Father" by Barack Obama
As the first black president of the "Harvard Law Review," Barack Obama received an advance from a publisher in 1995 to write a book. He decided to tell the story of his family in the hopes it might help people understand the fissures of race, class, and identity in America. Diane invites listeners to join a Readers' Review of our 44th President's first memoir.
Guests
Mark Whitaker, senior vice president & Washington bureau chief, NBC News
Lisa Page, freelance writer who teaches creative writing at George Washington University.
Kate Lehrer, author, most recently of "Confessions of a Bigamist."
I listened to this while I was working and occasionally wrote down phrases that struck me. Lots of 9 and 3 here. These may not be verbatim (what's in quotes is Obama):
when's the last time we had someone who was so introspective?
he remembers in detail so many things that happened when he was young
such calm acceptance of himself
search for identity around the missing father is really central to the book - it's the center of the search for identity [brings olife to mind]
he's inventing himself over and over again
at 33 so mature, mature his whole life
no posturing with this man
he writes about so many embarrasing moments, mistakes that he made - over and over he realizes things like this
creates himself, teaches himself about how to be a black man
by internalizing idealized sense of his father, his father may have had more positive influence than had he been there.
"perhaps if i'd lived in LA or NY I would have picked up more quickly the world I was playing in" (approx)
"I didn't know who my own self was."
plays with the pose of black anger and black rage. but it's phony - he hasn't experienced it and it's getting him nowhere. and not just him, but black folks in general.
mother taught him determination & responsibility
alienation is a big theme
this book is so self-revelatory
extraordinary powers of empathy - emotional & intellectual, ability to put himself in another's skin
not a heavy indulger in drugs - he knew he was on a slippery slope
needs to be in control
with his strong wife by his side
|
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 9:42:27 PM
|
Back to Obama.....as an so/sp 9w8....
9w1s have 'detail neurosis'. One of the ways they tune out reality is by getting tangled in various kinds of (OCD-ish) micro-tweaking projects that usually have no real productive value in relation to their long-term hopes/goals. The One-ishness seen in Obama is the so/sp stack. Abstractly speaking, you won't see him spending time in the corner with his micro fine-point paintbrush, fixing some little detail that nobody would ever even notice in the first place.
He's like Reagan - delegating the details to others. One-wingers are nervous over whether their subordinates will 'do it right'. Eight-wingers have faith in their own authority - that their subordinates will carry out orders. The confidence of the 8-wing is why people see 3 in Obama.
The One-wing has more 'inner laws' that restrain 'displays of vanity' in comparison to the 8-wing which has more ease with the 9's Three-ness coming forward.
The 8-winger is also more the pragmatist than the 1-winger.
If Obama had a One-wing, we'd see more subtle chiding of the people he disagrees with, letting them know they were 'wrong', and visibly taking delight in assigning moral blame to their wrongness. Instead he's the pragmatic referee who's saying "Yes, you guys fouled over there, but come on - let's get something done."
The so/sp stack makes an exotic 9w8. So/sp is 'lofty', 'regal', 'airy', 'distant', 'ivory-tower'. Contrast that with the very earth-bound sp-9w8 which is our typical mental image of '9w8'. [Notice, also, how 'lofty' etc can be mistaken for 3-ish arrogance.]
Combining 'air' with '9w8' is a very unusual formula. You can expect a surprise animal.
********* / *
|
|
|
|
koolkatkuhner
Member
3777 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 9:50:27 PM
|
quote:
So/sp is 'lofty', 'regal', 'airy', 'distant', 'ivory-tower'.
You think that applies to Bill O'reilly?
|
|
|
|
bear
Member
USA
4072 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 9:59:58 PM
|
I've been moving towards the undecided column after attending the inauguration. One thing that really struck me was some of the images that other people attach to him. I find something disturbing about the star power aspect of Obama - the smiling face on every magazine at the check out counter, the amount of people willing to don all forms of his name and logo, etc... the commodified Obama.
These particularly struck me as how malleable his image is. The Mission Impossible & Superman images are all distinctly 3ish and I saw another guy selling buttons with Obama as James Bond. Of course what people project on him and who he is are not one in the same, but there's something very un9ish about the phenomenon.
I can't reconcile his relaxed posture, persistent umming and low key demeanor with any 3 I've ever known either, so I'm not switching camps until he comes more into focus. I think the difficulty for me (as it seems for others as well) with the EI argument is using his level of health to explain his access to 9. My sense is that the missing piece is not something any of us begin to integrate until we're stationed at level 2. It has me questioning my entire understanding of the levels because I can't see how levels 1-3 map to the Sufi's 3 journeys if Obama is accessing up to level 1. It seems like there are a lot of other ways to explain why he might have a 9ish demeanor if he's a 3 (influential 9 caregivers, Hawaiian culture, 9 in his trifix, etc). I just came across this: Indonesia is a country of great diversity and its national motto is "Unity in Diversity." http://asia.msu.edu/seasia/Indonesia/culture.html
quote:
It is only in retrospect, of course, that I fully understand how deeply this spirit of hers influenced me....how it sustained me despite the absence of my father in the house, how it buoyed me through the rocky shoals of my adolescence, and how it invisibly guided the path I would ultimately take.
I also thought what lila posted sounded very much like the OR of a 3.
|
|
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2009 : 10:34:14 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by bear
I've been moving towards the undecided column after attending the inauguration. One thing that really struck me was some of the images that other people attach to him. I find something disturbing about the star power aspect of Obama - the smiling face on every magazine at the check out counter, the amount of people willing to don all forms of his name and logo, etc... the commodified Obama.
I do agree that there is an extraordinary amount of projection when it comes to Obama. (And I don't exclude myself.) I have thought a lot about this.
I'm just not sure why the extent of the projection points to Three though. IME, Threes generally adopt a definitive persona that doesn't leave that much room for projection. There's a bit more of a blank slate that's waiting to be written upon when it comes to Nine ime.
Btw, on a personal note which I have no intention to discuss or explore, I have noted that, in my personal life, people tend to project Threeish qualities onto me...this always leaves me dumbfounded. But it causes me to think... maybe as a culture and a people we would tend towards a projection of Threeishness...we certainly wouldn't project type Nine. Nine is in our shadow.
I also agree btw, that the principal difficulty in accepting the EI's typing is their difficulty in accounting for Obama's Ninish tendencies if he is in fact a Three. The "missing piece" hypothesis is too messy for my taste. According to them, he was Ninish when young because he was unhealthy and now calls on type Nine because he is so healthy - at levels three to five, no less. Gives me a headache.(Also gotta say that I have known several soc Threes with Four who are not unhealthy and the narcissism with them tends to be pretty palpable.)
So, if Obama is a Three, the theory should be modified.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
