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Originally posted by ptypes

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Originally posted by bear

Out of the gate things are really looking niney.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/opinion/08dowd.html

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I think my friend Marie is wrong on Henry David Thoreau's type (1w9). In my book he is a prototypical 9w1.



“He’s a bit of a restless soul,” Gibbs said, laughing. “His idea of a crazy day is to take a long walk.”

"A long walk where? somebody asked.

“In solitude and isolation,” Gibbs replied.

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Originally posted by ptypes

"The Voice of American Pragmatism"

"What is American pragmatism? It is a political philosophy rooted in the twin principles of action and usefulness. "If we take this action, will it be more useful than that action?" That is the basic question of American pragmatism.

"The great American pragmatists, of course, are names that we once held up in this country with great pride, Ralph Waldo Emerson, William James, Abraham Lincoln.

"Listening to Obama's press conference, it was strikingly clear that he was speaking in the voice of American pragmatism."

"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-feldman/the-voice-of-american-pra_b_165631.html

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Originally posted by marie

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Originally posted by ptypes

"The Voice of American Pragmatism"

"What is American pragmatism? It is a political philosophy rooted in the twin principles of action and usefulness. "If we take this action, will it be more useful than that action?" That is the basic question of American pragmatism.

"The great American pragmatists, of course, are names that we once held up in this country with great pride, Ralph Waldo Emerson, William James, Abraham Lincoln.

"Listening to Obama's press conference, it was strikingly clear that he was speaking in the voice of American pragmatism."

"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-feldman/the-voice-of-american-pra_b_165631.html

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I don't know - this definition of American pragmatism isn't the same as the one I use when referring to the philosophical movement. Maybe people use that term differently nowadays. I don't know.

I would consider William James to be an American pragmatist (as I define the term) but I would classify Emerson (and Thoreau) as transcendentalists. As for Lincoln - I would consider him to be an American who could be pragmatic, but I think his pragmatism was in service to an ideal. I see Obama that way as well.

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Originally posted by Feral Feline

He reminds me of Tony Blair in so many ways ... (who also ran clever and ultra-disciplined election campaigns on the basis of "change" and ethical government).

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Originally posted by Estranged Protractor

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Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute

Now that the 2008 Election is over, we thought that we would present our views about the major candidates’ types.

—Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson with Katy Taylor, Joyce Stenstrom, and Jessica Dibb
The Enneagram Institute
January 12, 2009

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You've probably realized this by now, but waiting the better part of a year to present your ideas as to the candidates' types is not a great way of having those ideas taken seriously. Especially when others have since fleshed out very good arguments for why they are different types.

At the least, maybe a sockpuppet to present opinions on the board early last year, or a page on the EI website highlighting aspects of the candidates and the public reaction to the candidates that you thought indicative of certain types, would have helped. Then, people would have seen your ideas, considered them, and argued them more than they do now...

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Originally posted by Cory

Yes, Dee, great idea! Here, let me pour your drink...

:::pours 1 part tonic, 3 parts gin, 1 part cyanide:::

Cheers! By the way, great to see an old face from 9types from way back when...

Ok, but seriously, I'm rather skeptical of Obama's promises and don't go for all that happy optimistic "hope and change" unicorns and rainbows BS. To me, I see him as an opportunistic politician who exploited people's hopes (and fears) to get elected. Said the right things, did the right things.

I think people voted for him because he ran against someone who represented the failed policies of the previous administration. Just changing the course of this country in a slightly positive direction is “change” and “hope” enough compared to what we had. He’s already manifested many of the things he’s promised after he got elected. So the “just to get elected” thing isn’t holding up. He ran on a positive message because it was more effective than just downing the opposition (and he had plenty of reason to). It was smart in the sense that people are more motivated towards something positive than motivated to act against something negative. This is particularly true for those who have opted out of the political system. (i.e. non voters). These are the people he targeted and who got him elected. If this is opportunistic then way to go Obama!!!! That people are projecting blind optimism, unicorns, and rainbows just because he refused to get down in the mud is really an interesting commentary on how screwed up our campaigning process has become.

I don't think he's a "bad guy" by any measure, and I do appreciate his (so-far) moderate, pragmatic approach to being president. However, I am skeptical that he can really can change this country around and solve our problems. Not that he isn't intelligent or anything, but he ain't Superman either.

I don’t think any single person can change this country around or solve our problems. I’m not sure if President Obama made that promise either. In fact, I think he has challenged the people of the United States of America to take some active ownership of the problems we face. If I have skepticism about President Obama, it’s not due to his abilities, but rather the limitations of our political system which is a systemic problem larger than any one single subcomponent.

All and all I think RH are pretty accurate in their 3w4 assessment, because he certainly strikes me as one. I can see the Ninishness in him, and understand why people might see him that way, but I think that's just the IMAGE he is trying to project.

If that’s the case, then I hope this “Nine as a cool executive image to project” thing really takes off. (God knows Dubya really screwed it up for us Nines).


I cast my vote for 3w4.

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Originally posted by Habanero

After reading the EI analysis, I'm wondering if I'm an 3w4. Why not? Well, except for the good looking, charming thing. And the successes. Well, depending on how you define success, I think I could make it work. My mom said my personality was similar to Alex P Keaton on "Family Ties." That had me scratching my head too. But it's true in a lot of respects. And to my family I was an E3...labeled "the overachiever." I guess it goes to show you that type really is relative to perspective.

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Originally posted by Cory


All and all I think RH are pretty accurate in their 3w4 assessment, because he certainly strikes me as one. I can see the Ninishness in him, and understand why people might see him that way, but I think that's just the IMAGE he is trying to project.

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Originally posted by ptypes



It seems to me that that this is the position of the Enneagram Institute, i.e., that Obama is a 3w4 and has developed Ninish qualities and image because it is useful to him. It also seems to me that this has to be the argument of anyone who supports the 3w4 typing. Anyone care to try to answer that.

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Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute

The “Nine” elements in his personality have been consciously and unconsciously learned along the way as an effective way to get along with people and be a "Mr. Nice Guy" who does not threaten others, gains their confidence and votes, and makes allies to help him with his political ambitions.

Thus, Obama’s "Nine" qualities can, at base, be explained by the Three’s tendency to want to be pleasing to everyone—to not lose popularity by alienating others. (“John [McCain], I agree with you….”) Threes are diplomatic and polite, even when they are privately preparing to go on the offensive or to say or do something undermining or hostile. They are concerned with “looking good,” and maintaining whatever image they have identified with. In Obama’s case, it is one of a moderate, an idealist, an intellectual, and a reasonable man—all qualities that Threes have in common with average to healthy Nines. To explode at someone or to become openly hostile would be among the last things he would want to do in public. Obama has also been consciously modeling himself after his personal role model, Abraham Lincoln, who was a Nine with a One-wing. This kind of carefully calibrated personal expression is a basic survival skill learned early by most Threes; as Obama says of himself:

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“’I had given her a reassuring smile and patted her hand and told her not to worry. I wouldn’t do anything stupid. It was usually an effective tactic; another one of those tricks I had learned: people were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied—they were relieved—such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time.’
“It is indeed an effective tactic: you could say that the whole campaign was defined by the motto: ‘No sudden moves.’ And yet how telling that last sentence is for there is a world of difference between being angry and not seeming angry.” (Obama, Dreams from My Father, no page cited, in “The Times,” page 17.)

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Obama’s “Nine” qualities can also be explained by his moving toward the Three’s "Missing Piece" at Nine, something we would see only in a healthy, conscious Three. Rather than their finding personal value only in achievement and external success, the healthy Three knows that his value is inherent in his Being, and that he can abide in Being itself (as a very healthy Nine does). In short, highly developed Threes move from “human doings” at Three to “human beings” at Nine (after learning at Six how to connect with and serve other people).

This is the meaning of the Three's "Missing Piece" which we believe Obama is intuitively learning especially in moments of ego-transcendence that seem to happen during some of his momentous speeches. At such times, Obama does not have to do almost anything except to offer himself as a clear channel, a kind of priest calling forth the highest aspirations of the people. As one of the participants on our website’s Discussion Board (“Marie”) beautifully put it:

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“I could feel all of this when I heard him speak. The energy came from the crowd. He called it forth and stood out of the way. An old black woman stood next to me weeping and teenagers who didn't even understand the nature of what called to them cheered. He wasn't basking in the limelight...he stood out of the way, and became the greater because of it.

"If it were about him...if it was a narcissism expressing itself...I would have known. I would have felt it. The dancing in the streets on November 4th was not about him; even he knew as much. It was written on his face. It was about something much bigger...something that we never could have felt had it been about him...he is but its channel.”

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Originally posted by dfgray44


Another question: If he was using 'E9' as a strategy to win the presidency, now that he's won, why hasn't he taken his victory lap and 'set up shop' as a 3? Instead, we've still got this guy who's bound and determined to get 'both sides' to get along...

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Originally posted by Anne


Obama's public strategy works, there's no need to alter it, and further it is an embodiment of him. It is about feeling comfortable in his clothes..his role...his approach to the outer world. (It is the development of the pearl if you wish to speak of it using another language...a type of personalization...of one's participation in the world...that allows one to be paradoxically contactful).

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Originally posted by bear

In Almaas' Enneagram of Idealized Aspects, the Pearl is the essential aspect of point 3. 3s emulate the Pearl - they attempt by imitation to embody it. The idealized aspect of 9 is Living Daylight. The missing piece is unrestricted access to the high qualities of the disintegration point, so for 3 it would be Living Daylight, for 9 it would be Will (the IA of 6). I hadn't thought about this at all, but from this perspective I'd be more inclined to put him at 3.

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Originally posted by marie


This is precisely the sort of thing that sounds quite suspicious from my perspective. Being a Five myself, I know theorizing at the expense of lived experience quite well.



Almaas can talk about Being itself. I think that he is simply talking about his own experiences; he made it all up and decreed it to be the way things are. All philosophers do this...but at this point I think we should be onto their game.

Oh...and I do understand that Almaas's students, under his tutelage, will experience much the same things in much the same way that he does. And at Lourdes, the Virgin Mary cures the ills of the afflicted. She really does.

Life is so much easier if we let someone else do our thinking for us, if we let them pre-structure our experience.

It's one thing to play with a system. It's quite another thing to confuse it with reality itself.

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