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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 4:49:46 PM
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Obama Has Upper Hand in Stimulus Fight
Gallop
President Obama receives a 67% approval rating for his handling of the government’s efforts to pass an economic stimulus bill, compared to 31% for the Republicans in Congress.
http://www.gallup.com/search/default.aspx?q=stimulus&s=
And yet the republicans in congress are yowling about their victory in regards to standing against the stimulus and the high approval from the public they got for it. 31%. They are nuts. I think the only republicans left in congress are the really dumb one's from the hard core republican southern states. They are now the Grand Ol' Graveyard party. They are a sad batch these days.
I think Obama is a winner. Regardless of type. The guy sets goals and targets and hits them.. always. I also think rahm was a perfect pick to keep Obama awake. I would not bet against Obama. He knows himself very well.
In 2 years things will start to improve in the economy. Also, Obama is hot and heavy on bin laden's tail and will have his head before too long. The GOP will look more lost and stupid than ever.
I almost feel sorry for the deluded party... almost. Well, OK, not even almost. Almost all of them suck.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 16 Feb 2009 4:55:40 PM |
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Anastacia Lacrosse
Member
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 6:28:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Estranged Protractor
quote:
Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
Type Five needs most to learn from Seven that life is a joy and that the universe is benevolent.
Focusing in on this quote: 7s are realistic when healthy (and the healthy part of 7 would be the missing piece of 5, wouldn't it?). Would something along these lines work better as a generality?:
Type Five needs most to learn from Seven that life has positives, and that the universe isn't malevolent.
I don't like my phrasing. It seems a little odd, but something along those lines maybe?
______________________________________
Verbifying nouns is my favorite adjectivity!
Sure.
Healthy Sevens are realistic, why?
Because they have gone to point Five. What do they encounter at Five?
Deprivation.
Life is no longer a joy, the universe has not been belevolent enough to supply for my needs and the needs of everybody else.
Drama.
They become sad, withdrawn and helpless.
Now they are no longer Sevens, they are avarage Fives.
Where do avarage Fives need to go to integrate to Seven?
( and why does healthy Seven needs to most learn from missing piece One acceptance and to live for a higher purpose? )
Well, because having gone to Five and seen the reality of life; loss of joy through painfull experiences of deprivation, separation and devaluation they are now faced with the demand of a "Reckoning".
They have now hit low Eight.
Having tasted the violation of their freedom ( and Sevens are the said free spirits of the E ) and drank from the cup of the desire for vengeance they come to realize what Fives have known all along that life is not always a joy and that the universe, including themselves can be malevolent. Having had a direct experience of their own suffering ( which may or may not include the suffering of others ) and, under such circumstances, their own inclination to "return an eye for an eye" ( which explains a lot of the universal "malevolence")
they are now in a position "to accept life as is and live for a higher purpose"
Or not.
Now how would you play out those dynamics as working out for Obama?
Healthy Three going to Six ( Community Service after Uni ) then learning "how to be" while achieving the presidency at point Nine.
or
Healthy Nine going to Three ( Get serious about my degree and being a Nine go straight into community service ) then learn "how to rely on himself and grow in adversity" ( 'Do you think I should run for President?' ) |
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Ten
Member
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 6:55:01 PM
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Sevens just integrate five when they become more cerebral instead of escaping too much into stupidity and insobriety. Intelligence isn't always the mark of the devil. And the high side of E1 that becomes a part of E7 is just its idealistic streak, firmly grounded in reality. Oh cheer up. At least we're all doomed.
I'm all the numbers at sometime or another. Sometimes they even let me switch planets. |
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Anastacia Lacrosse
Member
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 7:34:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
quote:
Originally posted by Anastacia Lacrosse
quote:
Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
Type Five needs most to learn from Seven that life is a joy and that the universe is benevolent.
But life is not a joy and the universe is not benevolent.
It could be, you are missing something ?
Dear Ron,
I am more than likely missing a lot of things.
I am missing my clarity E5
I am missing my stability E6
I am missing my freedom E7
I am missing my innocence E8
I am missing my presence E9
I am missing my purpose E1
I am missing my unconditional love E2
I am missing my value E3
I am missing my self E4
To me is not so much being reminded of what piece I am missing but rather how to reassemble from being reduced to just one piece.
The essential qualities of our human nature have never been a constant expression in the history of mankind.
There has been a loss and the pieces are missing. Otherwise it wouldn't take "continuous transformational work" to access these qualities, they should just arise and flow at the demands of reality.
Ego didn't arise out of free will, ego arouse out of a necessity and that necessity still remains a part of our human condition.
You don't compensate for something unless there has been a loss and that loss is real.
Telling a Five they need to learn that life is a joy is a bit like telling someone on a gas chamber:
-"You look a bit unhealthy. Don't you think you could benefit from getting in contact with some essential fresh air?"
-"You don't say. Let's open this window over here to get a whiff of the oxygen, shall we?"
And in that moment we remember how to breathe again and know that who we are is beyond that window..
..and in that moment we also forget that where we are is still in that gas chamber.
Getting my missing piece does not complete me when I know that the spirit of humanity is still being broken by that toxic gas.
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Ten
Member
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 8:57:45 PM
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Humanity as a whole will survive. I probably won't. I probably wouldn't want to be immortal anyways. I'd want to forget myself and then reincarnate into something else, like sleep. There are those who posit immortality in the new age. Realistic and pessimistic fives like Ray Kurzweil. Maybe I'll just live 1000 years. Maybe 2000. Or an eternity of Heaven might not be so bad. 
I'm all the numbers at sometime or another. Sometimes they even let me switch planets. |
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bear
Member
USA
4072 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 10:08:07 PM
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Wow. I was just trying to clear up something ptypes wrote, would never have expected the response. FTR, I wasn't trying to lay out an argument that Obama is a 3, it's just that as I was writing a response, it dawned on me that the gestalt of Pearl fits him better than the gestalt of Living Daylight. I'm taking an undecided position on his type in order to keep my lens clear.
I do see that the way I phrased my post could be misconstrued. I was not attempting to explain R/H's missing piece theory. That said, I do think that reading the EI's description of each of the things the types most need to access, it's very easy to make the correlations to those aspects (you could do it with the Holy Ideas as well). For example, in the arrows article on this site:
Fives may have glimpses of Level 1 or 2 of the Seven, but can seldom maintain this perspective of joyful gratitude for existence. It is too ego-alien to the Five's basic worldview. Similarly, a Four needs to work on himself a long time before he can see himself and others as manifestations of pure love—the position of the healthy Two.
Those descriptions certainly match up easily with the aspects of joy and merging love, the aspects of 7 and 2.
To me, all of the words attached to all of the enneagrams fit together rather seamlessly, so my use of one that is less familiar to others has nothing to do with slipping out of reality or becoming abstract (at least in my own personal understanding). In a sense the entire enneagram is an illusion, so it doesn't matter which particular version of the wheel we use as a framework. Fears, desires, passions, fixations, holy ideas, virtues, aspects, avoidances, whatever - they all contain both truth and illusion. I do realize that most people are going to see the aspects as an abstraction, but I also expect to be largely ignored when I mention stuff like that. It has meaning to me... I know it has meaning to a small handful of people here... the end. If I was trying to make a lucid argument for Obama's type, I would not be so opaque (as I think most of my posts on the subject demonstrate).
I'm not under the impression that people don't get the idea of the missing piece. ptypes' point about the Pearl seeming like the missing piece has a great deal of truth in it, as anyone who has developed personal essence to a certain level will not have barriers to those pieces.
I think where the real confusion lies is in this statement by the EI: Obama’s “Nine” qualities can also be explained by his moving toward the Three’s "Missing Piece" at Nine. Given this other statement - Only after doing a considerable amount of transformational work, will the Seven be in a position to assimilate the healthy lessons of type One consistently - and so far no one has turned up any evidence of Obama doing any transformational work, the argument hasn't landed well for many of us. I've already posted more about that so I won't repeat myself. But to clear up what I intended before...
quote:
In Almaas' Enneagram of Idealized Aspects, the Pearl is the essential aspect of point 3. 3s emulate the Pearl - they attempt by imitation to embody it. The idealized aspect of 9 is Living Daylight. The realization and actualization of the missing piece is unrestricted access to the high qualities of the disintegration point. If we were to use the IAs to represent the missing piece, the corresponding aspect for 3 would be Living Daylight, for 9 it would be Will (the IA of 6).
The EI may not agree with my take on their theory, but it fits like a glove for me.
Anne - thanks for your contributions on the subject. The soul child is from Almaas.
baba - the habit you made of dogging a particular member of the EIDB betrays something else about your self-esteem. Here the understanding of false vs. essential will might be clarifying.
marie - I agree with a most of the things you wrote, disagree with a few, could clarify others. Anne has addressed most of it - I'll just add a few things. The idealized aspects are not taught as some attempt to illustrate the enneatypes for mass consumption. They're primarily used in the context of soul child work, where they help to point out what qualities each type tends to deny and sublimate within their self-image. I have experienced some, others I haven't, most I've seen others embody or experience. Almaas is more scientist than philosopher - his approach to spirituality reminds me of Darwin in some ways - a collector of observations who recognizes the underlying unity of what he sees. |
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Estranged Protractor
Member
USA
2670 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 10:21:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ten
Humanity as a whole will survive. I probably won't. I probably wouldn't want to be immortal anyways. I'd want to forget myself and then reincarnate into something else, like sleep. There are those who posit immortality in the new age. Realistic and pessimistic fives like Ray Kurzweil. Maybe I'll just live 1000 years. Maybe 2000. Or an eternity of Heaven might not be so bad.
I'm all the numbers at sometime or another. Sometimes they even let me switch planets.
I think Kurzweil's likely a 7 (w8). sp/so.
Imagine being able to reincarnate into a new form, with no memory of your past self. And then imagine that when your new form dies, you reincorporate all memories into one being, and remember all. And can share those memories with others as easily as with yourself. That's one of my dream tangents. It doesn't speak to me, but ideas like it are why I'm in college now.
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Verbifying nouns is my favorite adjectivity! |
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Estranged Protractor
Member
USA
2670 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 10:28:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anastacia Lacrosse
Now how would you play out those dynamics as working out for Obama?
Healthy Three going to Six ( Community Service after Uni ) then learning "how to be" while achieving the presidency at point Nine.
or
Healthy Nine going to Three ( Get serious about my degree and being a Nine go straight into community service ) then learn "how to rely on himself and grow in adversity" ( 'Do you think I should run for President?' )
I don't really think about Obama as per type (except fleetingly), and haven't imbibed enough about his life to seriously consider such questions.
Thanks for your analysis though. Writings such as that are what I come to this board for.
______________________________________
Verbifying nouns is my favorite adjectivity! |
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Bluelamp
Member
USA
637 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 2:45:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anastacia Lacrosse
Telling a Five they need to learn that life is a joy is a bit like telling someone on a gas chamber:
-"You look a bit unhealthy. Don't you think you could benefit from getting in contact with some essential fresh air?"
-"You don't say. Let's open this window over here to get a whiff of the oxygen, shall we?"
And in that moment we remember how to breathe again and know that who we are is beyond that window..
..and in that moment we also forget that where we are is still in that gas chamber.
Getting my missing piece does not complete me when I know that the spirit of humanity is still being broken by that toxic gas.
but objectively knowing the reality on the inside and outside is a form of protection even if we don't know the hows and whens exactly. One does have to make sure the "joy" is not subjective wishful thinking but is objective truth enjoyed from a front row seat. |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 3:14:19 PM
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I just love the guy. Obama!
man of destiny. He is indeed.
He gives all the power to the people.
All of us one and yet each with a gift and power too give.
Enough for all.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 17 Feb 2009 3:19:29 PM |
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baba
Member
1132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 3:34:13 PM
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baba - the habit you made of dogging a particular member of the EIDB betrays something else about your self-esteem. Here the understanding of false vs. essential will might be clarifying.
Dogging is a British euphemism for engaging in sexual acts in a semi-public place (typically a secluded car park or a cinema) or watching others doing so. Frequently, there are more than two participants; both group sex and gang banging can be included. As observation is encouraged, voyeurism and exhibitionism are closely associated with dogging. The two sets of people involved often meet either randomly or (increasingly) arrange to meet-up beforehand over the Internet.
Interesting, Bear really.
But believe me there's nothing wrong with my self-esteem.
Ps..Bear, always thought 5's are highly specific..
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/3181612665_dbc195f907.jpg?v=0 |
Edited by - baba on 17 Feb 2009 3:50:12 PM |
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bear
Member
USA
4072 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:27:47 PM
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verb ( dogged |#712;d#596;g#601;d|, dogging |d#596;g#618;#331;|) [ trans. ]
1 follow (someone or their movements) closely and persistently : photographers seemed to dog her every step.
• (of a problem) cause continual trouble for : their finance committee has been dogged by controversy. |
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baba
Member
1132 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:35:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bear
verb ( dogged |#712;d#596;g#601;d|, dogging |d#596;g#618;#331;|) [ trans. ]
1 follow (someone or their movements) closely and persistently : photographers seemed to dog her every step.
• (of a problem) cause continual trouble for : their finance committee has been dogged by controversy.
lol
While, English is not my native language, I understood "dogging perfectly"
With "Specific" I meant: a particular member of the EIDB..
Give me a name, and I will give you feedback, if it's true.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/3181612665_dbc195f907.jpg?v=0 |
Edited by - baba on 17 Feb 2009 4:36:10 PM |
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Anastacia Lacrosse
Member
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:38:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ten
Sevens just integrate five when they become more cerebral instead of escaping too much into stupidity and insobriety. Intelligence isn't always the mark of the devil. And the high side of E1 that becomes a part of E7 is just its idealistic streak, firmly grounded in reality. Oh cheer up. At least we're all doomed.
I'm all the numbers at sometime or another. Sometimes they even let me switch planets.
Hello Ten,
*Are you really 13?*
It's intersting you encouraged me to cheer up.
Who told you I was gloomy?
And where in my post did I say we were doomed?
This is excellent to highlight one of my points on the missing piece.
Is this not an example of one's type interpretation superinposed on another type?
Seeing profoundly into the human condition does not make me feel dark, evil, joyless/nihilist or pessimistic. It makes me feel compassion and it fills me with wonder as to how we make it inspite of all the odds. Why is the Five's nonattachement and emptiness interpreted as negative? It is from this emptiness that with the quality of clarity Fives are able to be filled with wonder and joy for the miracle and the sanctity of life.
Clarity is an essential quality, is it not?
Just as joy is an essential quality.
When I am visited by clarity I am also gifted with joy. A virtue when it visits you does not come empty handed. If we blink it, because we are preocupied with what else is missing, we literally
miss it. That is what I meant when I said, we are not missing the piece, we are missing the point. Miss the point and you miss the piece( the gift).
So to Five, clarity presents them the "lesson"/experience of the Seven that life is a joy and the universe is benevolent enough to, at least, have blessed them with the light/insight to see/cut through the dark.Think of a Five who has had a breakthrough and made a discovery and yelled: "Eureka!" - that may not be joy to a Seven or a Four or even to another Five, but to that one's life, his experience of joy and benevolence from the universe was not missing.
Now take Obama as an example.
It was said about him that pre-election he was giving the people Hope. Could a Nine/Holy Love/LivingDayLight become a chanel of hope/shine like a Pearl and then..;
Then post-election he was,from my perspective, "telling it like it is", as if to say to the people: "Right, I have given you hope and now here is exactly why..."
A lot of people then began to moan and interpret it this way: "where is the hope he was giving us?why did he take away the hope?..I don't want to hear this..why is he so gloomy..why is he being so haarssh..? He is an opportunist.."
From my perspective the man was simply showing them: Before you can embrace the Hope/Rope ( pun intended ) you need to know exactly how hopeless it is right know ( acceptance of reality as is, point One ).
It seems to me also his attitude/motivation is for "self reliance and growth in the face of adversity" ( "It's time to leave childish things behind".."and let's get up and dust ourselves of.."). - That is point Six to me.
Isn't that Nine's missing piece according to the theory?
This is to any one who would care to attempt to elaborate on the missing piece theory for E3 and E9
*And how is it that when you are abiding in Love, Faith is missing?*
Or if we can see you are a Pearl and if Livingdaylight were your missing piece, wouldn't that mean we would not be able to see you?
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Anastacia Lacrosse
Member
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 4:45:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Estranged Protractor
quote:
Originally posted by Anastacia Lacrosse
Now how would you play out those dynamics as working out for Obama?
Healthy Three going to Six ( Community Service after Uni ) then learning "how to be" while achieving the presidency at point Nine.
or
Healthy Nine going to Three ( Get serious about my degree and being a Nine go straight into community service ) then learn "how to rely on himself and grow in adversity" ( 'Do you think I should run for President?' )
I don't really think about Obama as per type (except fleetingly), and haven't imbibed enough about his life to seriously consider such questions.
Thanks for your analysis though. Writings such as that are what I come to this board for.
It has been my joy.
( Did you miss that? )
*nothing missing here*  |
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bear
Member
USA
4072 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 7:55:05 PM
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| You can take or leave my feedback, carlito. I'm sure you can work it out without my input if you're interested. |
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Ten
Member
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2009 : 8:20:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anastacia Lacrosse
quote:
Originally posted by Ten
Sevens just integrate five when they become more cerebral instead of escaping too much into stupidity and insobriety. Intelligence isn't always the mark of the devil. And the high side of E1 that becomes a part of E7 is just its idealistic streak, firmly grounded in reality. Oh cheer up. At least we're all doomed.
I'm all the numbers at sometime or another. Sometimes they even let me switch planets.
Hello Ten,
*Are you really 13?*
It's intersting you encouraged me to cheer up.
Who told you I was gloomy?
And where in my post did I say we were doomed?
This is excellent to highlight one of my points on the missing piece.
Is this not an example of one's type interpretation superinposed on another type?
Seeing profoundly into the human condition does not make me feel dark, evil, joyless/nihilist or pessimistic. It makes me feel compassion and it fills me with wonder as to how we make it inspite of all the odds. Why is the Five's nonattachement and emptiness interpreted as negative? It is from this emptiness that with the quality of clarity Fives are able to be filled with wonder and joy for the miracle and the sanctity of life.
Clarity is an essential quality, is it not?
Just as joy is an essential quality.
When I am visited by clarity I am also gifted with joy. A virtue when it visits you does not come empty handed. If we blink it, because we are preocupied with what else is missing, we literally
miss it. That is what I meant when I said, we are not missing the piece, we are missing the point. Miss the point and you miss the piece( the gift).
So to Five, clarity presents them the "lesson"/experience of the Seven that life is a joy and the universe is benevolent enough to, at least, have blessed them with the light/insight to see/cut through the dark.Think of a Five who has had a breakthrough and made a discovery and yelled: "Eureka!" - that may not be joy to a Seven or a Four or even to another Five, but to that one's life, his experience of joy and benevolence from the universe was not missing.
Now take Obama as an example.
It was said about him that pre-election he was giving the people Hope. Could a Nine/Holy Love/LivingDayLight become a chanel of hope/shine like a Pearl and then..;
Then post-election he was,from my perspective, "telling it like it is", as if to say to the people: "Right, I have given you hope and now here is exactly why..."
A lot of people then began to moan and interpret it this way: "where is the hope he was giving us?why did he take away the hope?..I don't want to hear this..why is he so gloomy..why is he being so haarssh..? He is an opportunist.."
From my perspective the man was simply showing them: Before you can embrace the Hope/Rope ( pun intended ) you need to know exactly how hopeless it is right know ( acceptance of reality as is, point One ).
It seems to me also his attitude/motivation is for "self reliance and growth in the face of adversity" ( "It's time to leave childish things behind".."and let's get up and dust ourselves of.."). - That is point Six to me.
Isn't that Nine's missing piece according to the theory?
This is to any one who would care to attempt to elaborate on the missing piece theory for E3 and E9
*And how is it that when you are abiding in Love, Faith is missing?*
Or if we can see you are a Pearl and if Livingdaylight were your missing piece, wouldn't that mean we would not be able to see you?
Oh, I was just speaking in general, but I guess I should respect the morose side of the human experience too. There's sure to show the ill side of humanity at a psychology forum. I myself have trouble in the soul sometimes. Some of the sorriest times in my life were when I felt I was missing something of my essence, like my soul had become empty. Emptiness can be a good healer too though, like some of the spiritual masters teach. The universe itself might have been born of a void, which would make atheists the true believers of this world. The chaos of the cosmos can feel like Heaven or Hell. Jesus and Buddha both taught about the benefits of emptying out to feel whole. Am I really 13? 13 is the symbolic number of death. I'm only 10/13ths dead. 10 is the number of fortune in tarot, a card which teaches to retain a sense of equanimity even when fortune falls on its head. Good luck!
And whoever Obama is, I think he was Bush's missing piece.
I'm all the numbers at sometime or another. Sometimes they even let me switch planets. |
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baba
Member
1132 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 02:32:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bear
You can take or leave my feedback, carlito. I'm sure you can work it out without my input if you're interested.
Oh, Yes.
Carlito, it reminds me, how terrible this Board is..
Banned, because of showing some Mapplethorpe pictures.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/3181612665_dbc195f907.jpg?v=0 |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 09:46:59 AM
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Type Five needs most to learn from Seven that life is a joy and that the universe is benevolent.
Wasn't the Buddha's first noble truth that life is permeated by suffering? He was reputedly a Five. (I believe he was a Five at any rate.) Guess he was missing a piece. Didn't get to enough weekend seminars, I guess.
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Feral Feline
Member
United Kingdom
2617 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 10:48:52 AM
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It's certainly depressing that the NYT would employ Judith Warner to write a column, based on what I've read about her. But presumably the article was researched ... or something. I mean, isn't she part of their "science" team? A very similar kind of hysteria was evident amongst the Nazi Maidens, but they had an outlet - they could go off to mating clinics and produce babies with strapping great blond soldiers while fantasizing about der Fuehrer.
The bit about Obama appearing in a swirling mist with purple lips reminded me of one of those Hammer House Dracula films. Very disconcerting. 
But mainly I found the article sad. Because it's about emptiness.
I don't particularly enjoy watching youths stomping around chanting the name of their leader. Particularly when they look so unhappy doing it. Aren't there more subtle (and enjoyable) ways to motivate people?
Anyway, I think I'll go away now. 
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 11:21:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Feral Feline
It's certainly depressing that the NYT would employ Judith Warner to write a column, based on what I've read about her. But presumably the article was researched ... or something. I mean, isn't she part of their "science" team? A very similar kind of hysteria was evident amongst the Nazi Maidens, but they had an outlet - they could go off to mating clinics and produce babies with strapping great blond soldiers while fantasizing about der Fuehrer.
The bit about Obama appearing in a swirling mist with purple lips reminded me of one of those Hammer House Dracula films. Very disconcerting.
But mainly I found the article sad. Because it's about emptiness.
I don't particularly enjoy watching youths stomping around chanting the name of their leader. Particularly when they look so unhappy doing it. Aren't there more subtle (and enjoyable) ways to motivate people?
Anyway, I think I'll go away now.
I think Judith Warner (sp/soc Two with One maybe) is a holdover from the 1950's. She was hired to represent a "woman's point of view." I have never known her to engage in research exactly. Typically she sites what her friends (educated upper middle class women who devote themselves largely to raising their children) and the friends of her friends are thinking and doing - so her evidence is all anecdotal and I have always suspected that she makes much of it up. Nobody much calls her on it though because she is not considered a "serious" journalist. Why the NYTimes employs her is beyond me.
Mostly I don't think she and her friends are sad or suffering from any sort of profound state of emptiness. I just think she and they are kind of silly and superficial.
I do think comparing them to the Nazi maidens and Obama by extension to Hitler(?) is also kind of silly. And I don't think that Obama is trying to motivate youth to march around while chanting his name. This is a big country and there's a lot going on...not much of it reminds me of Nazi Germany though...I think if we were to make such comparisons, which are a real stretch in any case, we were much closer to that sort of blind "follow the leader" mentality under the rule of the chimp than we are now. Obama is a civilized man who believes in democracy and decency; he may not be as great as his admirers believe, but the comparisons to the Nazis are over the top imo...although, come to think of it, I have also heard him compared to the anti-Christ. Like I said, it's a big country with a wide diversity of opinion and view point. |
Edited by - marie on 18 Feb 2009 12:15:22 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 12:13:31 PM
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I've been known to shout out, Marie! When I read one of her post.
I think marie has been called many ugly names too. And she has been typed a 3. She gets a lot of envy that 3's often get. But she is a 5 with out doubt.
Sometimes when something smart is said.. or someone touches on a deep truth in a way we have not heard from others in a long, long time... we respond with joy. America has a winner at the helm.. and he feeds the good wolf. It is far from empty. It is far from evil. And it is far from mindless.
Hitler fed the bad wolf. So does Palin.. who got crowds chanting evil things. One must know the difference of the meal being offered. I have found that it's almost always the people with a painful hollow that think Obama is nothing but empty. Those with a deep poverty within. Those that find joy in the juices of bitterness find it hard to trust Obama. Hope taste like nothing to those who have lost it long ago and see it as empty. I'm talking of good people, smart people, not those that feed from evil. But they latch onto the the most shallow of things to try and define Obama by and don't go deeper. It speaks more about them than it does Obama.
Obama speaks about far more than hope. It seems that those that can't stand the taste of hope never go much deeper to understand that.
It makes their own understanding impoverished.
So, it is with Judith Warner, imho.
Obama is far from perfect.. he is also far from empty. I do not react to empty. I trust my own discernment far above Warner's.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 18 Feb 2009 12:21:29 PM |
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Feral Feline
Member
United Kingdom
2617 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 12:36:11 PM
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I felt entirely neutral about Obama when I first saw him. But then, apart from objecting to Tony Blair and the abomination that was the Iraq War, I'm not a political animal. Yet the more I watched Obama and read "Dreams from my Father", the more an alarm bell went off in my head.
I think he's a consummate skillful politician; but I also think he's profoundly narcissistic.
He may well do brilliantly (and I hope so for all our sakes), but I do think people shouldn't lose their critical faculties over the man. That's my point.
Okay, i'm off. |
Edited by - Feral Feline on 20 Feb 2009 2:36:38 PM |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 12:55:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Feral Feline
I felt entirely neutral about Obama when I first saw him. But then, apart from the abomination that was the Iraq War, I'm not a political animal. However, the more I watched him and read "Dreams from my Father", the more alarm bells went off in my head.
I think he's a consummate politician; but I also think he's profoundly narcissistic.
He may well do brilliantly (and I hope so for all our sakes), but I don't think people should lose their critical faculties over the man.
Okay, i'm off.
I don't think we should lose our critical faculties either and I do recognize that there are a great many unrealistic projections which attach themselves to Obama.
But perhaps you should take a bit of your own advice about the importance of maintaining one's critical faculties...I mean an argumentum ad Hilterum is just about always cause for suspicion.
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2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
