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ptypes
Member
6040 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 1:04:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Sometimes I worry about Obama's gullibility and find myself thankful for Rahm by his side. Rahm who makes sure Obama is not played a sap.
I don't see it as gullibility. I think that Barack Obama sees things realistically but that he is compulsively forgiving and accomodating of the faults and differences of others.
He got Rahm, who's also a realist, because Rahm Emmanual is ruthless and able to do the dirty work.
Barrack Obama has ruth:
ruth
#8194; #8194;/ru#952;/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rooth] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. pity or compassion.
2. sorrow or grief.
3. self-reproach; contrition; remorse.
I'd say that 3s got less ruth than 9s. |
Edited by - ptypes on 19 Feb 2009 1:12:25 PM |
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ptypes
Member
6040 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 1:27:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Barack Obama's primary personality patterns are Ambitious/confident, with secondary features of the Accommodating/cooperative, Conscientious/respectful, and Outgoing/congenial personality patterns.
I've been following that guy at St John's for a long time. Hardly ever have agreed with his typings. He usually has the same kind of superficial impressions that we are imo seeing in the 3w4 typing of Obama.
To be more accurate and fair, the St. John's (Minnesota) professor and his student team don't do typings, they construct psychological profiles. |
Edited by - ptypes on 19 Feb 2009 2:01:38 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 1:32:10 PM
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yeah... I just removed it... I read where he was raving that Obama was going to get us all killed because he is not tough enough to push the red button if Russia attacks us. The guy is a ranting nut. lol
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 1:39:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Sometimes I worry about Obama's gullibility and find myself thankful for Rahm by his side. Rahm who makes sure Obama is not played a sap.
I don't see it as gullibility. I think that Barack Obama sees things realistically but that he is compulsively forgiving and accomodating of the faults and differences of others.
Hm... I think Obama has an issue of thinking people are better than they really are. We saw it in his cabinet picks. Where he trusted people to be upfront and then got burned when deeper vetting was done. Obama learns, though.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 19 Feb 2009 1:40:37 PM |
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ptypes
Member
6040 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 1:40:25 PM
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I think the ranter may have lifted it. The psychologist at St. Johns is not political. But from a later [Oct. 31, 2008] essay of his:
"The ‘right stuff’?
"For voters, the key question should not so much be whether Obama has the right stuff to move the nation in the right direction, but whether he has what it takes to prevail in the dog-eat-dog world of international politics.
"Accommodating personalities like Obama have a strong need to reconcile differences and are able to conceding when necessary. But that begs the question, when is it really necessary to make concessions?
"On the other side of the coin, cordiality and compromise characterize accommodating leaders; they are respectful and gracious, even with adversaries and people that they don’t like very much. That tendency could be significant on the domestic front to change the tone in Washington, something President Bush promised but failed to deliver."
Here are his two pages on Obama. You have to scroll down.
http://www.csbsju.edu/uspp/Obama/Obama_Personality-Profile_2007.html
http://www.csbsju.edu/USPP/Obama/Obama_Immelman_10-31-2008.html |
Edited by - ptypes on 19 Feb 2009 1:48:36 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 1:41:17 PM
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You are right... they lifted some of that and then went on a tear with it.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 19 Feb 2009 1:43:30 PM |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
11085 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 2:19:27 PM
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I'm still looking for an audience for my 8-wing argument as regards Obama.
Hear me out:
1) He doesn't have the I-know-what's-right brand of certainty that's an underlying component of having a 1-wing. No signs that he already possesses all the answers and knows how it all should be done. If he had a 1-wing, we should see, at least, trace notes of intolerance for "those who don't know".
2) The particular agitative effect of the 1-wing makes for a faster-vibrating edginess that causes contra-9-ish acerbic comments to erupt 'out of nowhere', especially under pressure.
3) The 8-wing is a smoothing agent - it makes for a less-agitated energy. This is a major factor in why people are seeing 'slick 3'. Compare two 9s from a bygone era - Bing Crosby (9w8) and Jimmy Stewart (9w1). Jimmy has a shakiness in his energy; the bio-rhythms never quite slow down enough to form big well-rounded arcs on the graph. Whereas, Bing is smooth as silk.
4) Obama's life story and current news show him to be more of a referee than a dreamer/reformer. We should be seeing little traces of the 1-wing's particular brand of unattractiveness - irritability, sarcasm - some kind of 'biting' quality. Instead, we get stodgy slowness - the monolithic heaviness of '9w8 energy'.
********* / *
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lilalove
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13571 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 2:32:28 PM
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Just by watching Barack Obama walk down the stairs with George W. Bush last month, Helen Fisher, a research professor of anthropology at Rutgers University, knew what kind of president he’d be—and what kind of mate he is.
I think he’s an Explorer/Negotiator. For a black man to seek the presidency, he’s clearly a risk-taker. He’s got a lot of curiosity, he’s creative in the way he addresses problems and handles people. I also think he’s a Negotiator, because he’s caring. This man cares about the whole world. He was trying to improve the South Side of Chicago as a young men when he could have gone to Wall Street and made a million bucks. He has wonderful verbal skills and people skills.
Two traits he has that indicate elevated activity in the dopamine system, which relates to the Explorer: He has a very expressive face, and he moves with a style…watching him and Bush walk down the stairs to the helicopter, he walked gracefully, like an Explorer would, and Bush lumbered down.
And Bush is…?
I think he is a Builder/Director. He has that intense need for loyalty. That’s in the serotonin system. He’s religious, stubborn, uncreative.
I know those are predominantly negative-sounding traits. I don’t want to malign Builders. They have some wonderful characteristics too. George Washington was a Builder.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-02-04/helen-fisher-decodes-obamas-personality-type
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 19 Feb 2009 2:33:17 PM |
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ptypes
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6040 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 3:34:07 PM
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"The Quiet American: How the World Sees Obama"
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1880379,00.html
"It has become clear that there's a bit of an obsession with process in the Obama Administration as well, but this is a necessary corrective. Rather than making peremptory judgments, pro and con, about foreign leaders, as Bush did, Obama seems predisposed to see every foreign policy problem in its global context — the decision to press the reset button with Russia, for example, could have a profound influence on the start of talks with Iran, especially if the Russians agree to help dissuade the Iranians from an illegal nuclear program (in return for a U.S. pledge to halt the antimissile defense system that Russia fears). Every decision will be evaluated for its synergy with other decisions: troop levels in Afghanistan will reflect, among other things, the level of tension between India and Pakistan.
"As a result, Obama's foreign policy will move at the speed of diplomacy — slower than a sclerotic donkey — punctuated by the occasional laser whoosh of a Hellfire missile in Waziristan. His policies will be nuanced and will not please anyone overmuch — not the Muslims (nor the Israelis) nor our NATO allies nor those Americans seeking ideological clarity or consistency. This will make for a round of more argumentative policy conferences next year, but perhaps fewer "How could you?" questions directed at Americans." |
Edited by - ptypes on 19 Feb 2009 3:35:18 PM |
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ptypes
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ptypes
Member
6040 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 4:01:19 PM
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"Is the Administration Winging It?"
"Obama's reputation for competence is at risk."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123500260310017735.html
By Karl Rove
"Team Obama demonstrated remarkable discipline during the presidential campaign. From raising an unprecedented amount of money to milking every advantage from the Internet to grabbing lots of delegates from inexpensive caucus states, they left nothing to chance.
"And now the administration has scored a major legislative victory in an extraordinarily short period of time. Less than 700 hours after taking the oath of office, President Barack Obama signed the largest spending bill in American history.
"Nevertheless, this fast start can't overcome a growing sense the administration is winging it on issues large and small." |
Edited by - ptypes on 19 Feb 2009 4:04:18 PM |
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baba
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2757 Posts |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
11085 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 02:41:07 AM
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9w1 and 3w4 are very different from each other.
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bear
Member
USA
5789 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 09:08:53 AM
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| This is the kind of thing that makes it difficult to type him as a 3. |
Edited by - bear on 20 Feb 2009 7:25:37 PM |
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baba
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2757 Posts |
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marie
Member
5101 Posts |
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ptypes
Member
6040 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 10:41:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
The good Three thinks that Obama has to do a better job of selling hope and demonizing the opposition party.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/President44/story?id=6916695&page=1
"Bill Clinton: Obama Should Sound More Hopeful:
Says President Obama Should Voice Economic Optimism, Paint GOP as the Party of 'No'"
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Feral Feline
Member
United Kingdom
2620 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 11:57:17 AM
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As quoted by ptypes: "Seems to me that President Obama's management style has a lot in common with Ronald Reagan's style, and is very much what one would expect of a Nine, and not at all what one would expect from a Three.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/obamas_governing_style.html
"Obama's Governing Style"
"Whatever the reason, this level of presidential detachment from high policy decision making is dangerous in a White House that has so many czars and other senior players (the West Wing staff is reputed to be more than 130 -- about double the usual number) combined with emissaries and strong-willed Cabinet secretaries. It may well lead to what has been called (regarding another country's government) "the immanent structurelessness to the running of the state."
I saw this article a couple of days ago, ptypes, and thought it quite interesting. But it should be read as a whole and the following conclusion noted:
"I can think of four possible explanations for this almost unprecedented presidential detachment from the decision making of policies the president publicly declared to be vital to the country and his presidency:
1) He is a very, very big-picture man, and he delegates decisions even on the central points of vital issues.
2) For tactical reasons, he decided these matters were not worth using up political chits.
3) He is either hesitant or unskilled at management, and he let matters drift until it seemed too late to intervene personally.
4) Or his personality type leaves him surprisingly uninterested in things that aren't personally about him."
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Feral Feline
Member
United Kingdom
2620 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 12:31:06 PM
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As quoted by lilalove:
"Just by watching Barack Obama walk down the stairs with George W. Bush last month, Helen Fisher, a research professor of anthropology at Rutgers University, knew what kind of president he’d be - and what kind of mate he is ..."
As Obama says in "The Audacity of Hope", "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views."
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Edited by - Feral Feline on 23 Feb 2009 09:08:09 AM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 3:00:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Feral Feline
As quoted by lilalove:
"Just by watching Barack Obama walk down the stairs with George W. Bush last month, Helen Fisher, a research professor of anthropology at Rutgers University, knew what kind of president he’d be - and what kind of mate he is ..."
As Obama says in "The Audacity of Hope", "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views."
Lol, he wins, both ways.
indeed. And thanks for that line. It fits 9 rather perfect.
"We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.'
3's are masters of creation. They have an obvious identity they project to the public. (John Edwards was champaign of the mill workers. ect.) A very clear image creation that often does not hold up when out of the public eye. And they can change their values like a fish in water. What ever wins. They can get real nasty when under stress too. They devalue people and kneejerk reject them. They loose touch with 'the people'.
Obama.. he has been the same from the time of 22 onward. I have put up countless clips and post of him over the years. He is steadfast. People have always projected on him because he is so level. His ego does not get in the way of other people's views. If you can't see how that is far more 9 than 3... I'm not sure we are on the same wave length at all.
9w1's are like blinking cats. You are not fully sure what they think. they are very good at that. |
Edited by - lilalove on 20 Feb 2009 3:33:35 PM |
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ptypes
Member
6040 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 3:40:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
indeed. And thanks for that line. It fits 9 rather perfect.
"We have sometimes called the Nine the crown of the Enneagram because it is at the top of the symbol and because it seems to include the whole of it. Nines can have the strength of Eights, the sense of fun and adventure of Sevens, the dutifulness of Sixes, the intellectualism of Fives, the creativity of Fours, the attractiveness of Threes, the generosity of Twos, and the idealism of Ones. However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.'
3's are masters of creation. They have an obvious identity they project to the public. (John Edwards was champaign of the mill workers. ect.) A very clear image creation that often does not hold up when out of the public eye. And they can change their values like a fish in water. What ever wins. They can get real nasty when under stress too. They devalue people and kneejerk reject them. They loose touch with 'the people'.
Obama.. he has been the same from the time of 22 onward. I have put up countless clips and post of him over the years. He is steadfast. People have always projected on him because he is so level. His ego does not get in the way of other people's views. If you can't see how that is far more 9 than 3... I'm not sure we are on the same wave length at all.
9w1's are like blinking cats. You are not fully sure what they think. they are very good at that.
How about that, Mr. Fung? |
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Feral Feline
Member
United Kingdom
2620 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 4:14:36 PM
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Posted by lila:
"However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity."
Okay ... so how is it that Obama has a sufficiently defined sense of himself (self-consciousness) to know that he is a mirror for millions of others ? And take pride in it ? Even allowing it to go to the whole messianic thing ...
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Edited by - Feral Feline on 20 Feb 2009 4:50:11 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 5:03:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Feral Feline
Posted by lila:
"However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity."
Okay ... so how is it that Obama has a sufficiently defined sense of himself (self-consciousness) to know that he is a mirror for millions of others ? And takes pride in it ?
I don't read pride in that statement. Just acknowledgement of a fact. A fact that many tried to use against him in the campaign by saying he is unknown and dangerous. That was pretty much the sum total of the campaigns run against him. "Who is the real Obama"
The real Obama is rather boring and unchanging.. and it was not until the last few weeks of McCain's campaign that they figured it out.
Obama is a big government humanitarian liberal. Always has been. and he has a strong steadfast value system. Obama is by nature level. A blinking 9w1 cat. Most 9w1's are aware they are avoiding conflict by allowing others to project on them. It's what they do.
I also think Obama is healthy. He was not always as healthy as he is now. I have given a detailed account of Obama's development through out the ages of 22 to now. It explains your question. I'm not going to recount it. You can read through this thread and the other Obama thread the EIDB made (That one has most the information) to get your answer. It's a journey that started with him living like a monk for two years and reading countless books on philosophy between the ages of 22-24.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 20 Feb 2009 8:41:46 PM |
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marie
Member
5101 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 5:23:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Feral Feline
Even allowing it to go to the whole messianic thing ...
Do you think that he want's to be a messiah? Or to be seen as a messiah? Do you think Threes in general inspire the projection of the messiah archetype? (I thought they were "the winners.") It's strange, but this is one of those things that makes me call it for Nine. It's also something that I really worry about, in the back of my mind - that it might play itself out.
Anyway, Obama was not encouraging a messiah complex when he told people to grow up, which I think was the central message of his inaugural speech.
You know...we haven't seen common decency in this country for a long time. Many people resonate with that. (Others see it as a sign of the end times, I understand.) To me the really bizarre thing is that he is, more or less, just a standard bearer for a somewhat left of center position; he's a garden variety liberal for cryin out loud.
The collective unconscious sometimes projects exaggerated qualities onto those who can contain them. Sometimes the result is very strange indeed. The Obama phenomenon reminds me more of the excesses associated with Princess Diana for instance, more than it does with anything associated with Hitler, an identification which strikes me as truly bizarre. |
Edited by - marie on 20 Feb 2009 5:46:46 PM |
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Anastacia Lacrosse
Member
United Kingdom
374 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 7:09:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
quote:
Originally posted by Feral Feline
Posted by lila:
"However, what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity."
Okay ... so how is it that Obama has a sufficiently defined sense of himself (self-consciousness) to know that he is a mirror for millions of others ? And takes pride in it ?
"Who is the real Obama"
.. It's a journey that started with him living like a monk for two years and reading countless books on philosophy between the ages of 22-24.
The real Obama is..
The GateKeeper
http://drricklevy.com/resources/knowledge-base/gatekeeper/ |
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2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
