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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2009 : 08:21:38 AM
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In fact, the dividing line between Bush and Obama may be less ideology than human nature — whether people, and countries, are more likely moved by force or by persuasion.
In a recent interview with POLITICO, former Vice President dick Cheney warned about what he said he feared was Obama’s naïve approach to the threat of terrorism and the harsh steps on interrogation, surveillance and detainment needed to stop it. Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” Cheney said. He added: “The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected. Sometimes, that requires us to take actions that generate controversy. I’m not at all sure that that’s what the Obama administration believes.”
Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich ridiculed Obama's "fantasy foreign policy,” telling “Fox News Sunday” that Obama’s plan for a global summit on nuclear security is a “wonderful fantasy idea” but that Russia and other potential participants can’t be trusted.
The skepticism hasn’t been entirely partisan. Washington Post deputy editorial page editor Jackson Diehl also gave a harsh review of the opening swing of Obama’s trip, with the headline, “Obama, Going Along to Get Along.” Diehl concluded with the provocative question: “Is the new president shrewd and pragmatic about using his power at home and abroad — or too passive, even weak?”
None of that dissuades Obama. On his European trip, the president again and again asserted his faith in the power of openness and good will. “I think the most important thing to start with is dialogue,” the president said in Prague. “When you have a chance to meet people from other cultures and other countries, and you listen to them and you find out that, even though you may speak a different language or you may have a different religious faith, it turns out that you care about your family, you have your same hopes about being able to have a career that is useful to the society, you hope that you can raise a family of your own, and that your children will be healthy and have a good education — that all those things that human beings all around the world share are more important than the things that are different.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21001_Page2.html
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
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Ten
Member
USA
169 Posts |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2009 : 7:09:09 PM
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The guy who made that movie is a paranoid loon with a cult following.
here is a movie that proves Obama's wife is a hooker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU13MRtSD7E
Yeah, the paranoid's movie is that stupid.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 09 Apr 2009 7:12:27 PM |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2009 : 10:02:47 PM
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LOL...just got a look at the Enneagram Monthly. Too funny! That Anders Remsen, he who hails from "Jolly Old England" really gave you guys a drubbing...just too funny.
He thinks you are too left wing. He really should have been subjected to me! Because the thing is, you guys kind of pulled your punches, so came out just a little left of center....which on Bozo's analysis makes you Marxist Pinko Commies! And he's clearly a right winger...so we have the right wing and a slightly center left position. This will not do! We have to push the center to the left. That means you have to really be Marxist Pinko Commies. The dialectic requires it! It will be a service to the logos. ( I mean really...Sarah Palin is a warm Three or a healthy Eight!?....Now that's some fine grained analysis for you. And she has a lot of experience running her little fiefdom, more experience than Obama, McCain and Biden combined (I am assuming that Anders has never been to Alaska) and she has a highly functional family life. Lol...Too much! Really. It exceeded my entertainment quotient for the day.)
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Edited by - marie on 20 Apr 2009 10:23:39 PM |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:14:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by n/a
Spam deleted by EIDB Moderators
THE BOSTON GLOBE
I'M NOT ONE who thinks the right is dead in this country. If conservatism can learn from its losses, adapt, and modernize, the movement should continue to play an important role in American politics.
And yet, analytic introspection is hardly what we've seen since November. Instead, any number of conservative commentators have come down with the vapors.
That hysteria is regularly in evidence on "fair and balanced" Fox News. Witness, for example, Cody Willard, who reported for Fox from the anti-tax "tea party" on Boston Common last week. Inveighing against "the $800 billion Republican-Democrat fascist stimulus package," Willard posed this question: "Guys, when are we gonna wake up and start fighting the fascism that seems to be permeating this country?"
Willard managed to give his charge a veneer of nonpartisanship by including Republicans as among the sinners. Make no mistake, however: Cries of fascism are fast emerging as the favored conservative criticism of the Obama administration. You can see why: Given its inextricable link to Mussolini and Hitler, fascism carries no end of unsavory connotations. And, of course, charges of socialism haven't stuck to Obama.
But wait. Where is the extreme militaristic nationalism that the Encyclopedia Britannica tells us is fundamental to fascism? The contempt for electoral democracy and cultural liberalism? The effort to subordinate the individual to an authoritarian state?
Those are matters an intelligent commentator would want to consider before invoking the term. Not that that would deter Willard, who obviously won't be winning a MacArthur Foundation genius grant anytime soon. Fascism, he explained, is "big business and government gettin' in bed together." Still, it's puzzling that conservatives, who have waxed wroth about CNN's Susan Roesgen's hostile, unprofessional reporting from the Chicago tea party, have hardly uttered a peep about Willard's ludicrous performance.
He's not the only Fox personality who sees fascism around every corner, mind you.
"Like it or not, fascism is on the rise," Fox host Glenn Beck told his viewers this month. Sly Foxie that he is, Beck quickly added this qualifier: "That doesn't mean the Adolf Hitler kind of fascism."
Now, I'm confused. If it doesn't mean that, then why did Beck feature Nazi footage on the screen behind him as he launched into his rant? And why is he so prone to drawing analogies between contemporary America and Nazi Germany?
Here's one measure of how wacky he's become: His repeated assertions that Obama is moving the country toward fascism has provoked deep skepticism from fellow Fox host Bill O'Reilly, who, let's remember, is no stranger to simple-minded conservative bombast. Noting that his phones aren't tapped and that the government wasn't harassing him, O'Reilly recently told Beck that "I have just as much freedom now as I've ever had."
Ah, but the government is merely gathering its power, explained Beck, who issued this ominous warning: "You're about to not have freedom."
Proceed a few steps further toward tinfoil hat territory, and there you find Sean Hannity, who takes a back seat to no one - well, perhaps Michael Savage - in the cause of advancing idiocy on the nation's airwaves. Hannity, you'll recall, is the one who last fall gave kooky character assassin Andy Martin a platform to claim that Obama's time as a Chicago community organizer was actually "training for a radical overthrow of the government."
"The administration is on a mission to hijack capitalism in favor of collectivism," Hannity recently proclaimed. "The Bolsheviks have already arrived."
Nor are the squawking heads the only conservatives trafficking in the preposterous. Newt Gingrich recently asserted that Democrats are trying to move the country "towards a political dictatorship." Texas Governor Rick Perry last week suggested that his state might someday secede from the union.
No, this lunacy doesn't represent the totality of the right or even of its commentators. Yet it's prominent enough that starboard-side writer David Horowitz has expressed concern over the movement's "over-the-top hysteria" about Obama.
It's a problem that thinking conservatives should care about. After all, political rebuilding won't be easy if conservatism's loudest voices are those who sound as though they've just escaped from the asylum. |
Edited by - EIDB Moderators on 03 Sep 2009 3:53:56 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
12531 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2009 : 12:22:49 AM
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I think Obama read the torture memos. Obama, being not only a constitutional lawyer but a constitutional lawyer that was a constitutional law professor, knew that their was a very strong case that the Bush administration broke constitutional law. Obama made the principled choice to release the memos. If Obama had not released them then he himself would be guilty of cover-up. Most people know Obama is a constitutional lawyer and would never believe he was ignorant of the significance of the memos and information he just released. There was no way Obama would, himself, be involved in the cover-up of the crime. And that's just what it would have been had Obama kept them hidden.
I think Obama truly did want to focus on the future and not have to deal with all of the Bush administration transgressions. But once Obama read those memo's he knew that the 'possible' transgressions were too serious a case to sit on.
I think releasing them in the first 100 days was a very wise call by Obama.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 25 Apr 2009 12:24:00 AM |
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Laelth
Member
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2009 : 1:19:37 PM
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Not a popular opinion, I know, but I still think Obama is a one.
Remember the presser when one journalist asked Obama twice why he waited a few days to speak to the nation about a breaking bit of news? The President politely brushed off the question the first time (because being polite is the right thing to do). When the reporter asked the question again, Obama replied in a crisp, cold, one-like manner with narry a hint of a smile on his face, "Because I like to know what I am talking about before I speak." (i.e., like every good one, he wants to be right.)
Remember Obama planting trees with President Clinton on Earth Day? Clinton knew what he was doing, and he went first. Obama was originally standing behind a row of kids, but he pushed his way through the line (not a good thing to do), and then apologized to one of the kids saying, and I paraphrase, "Sorry. I had to get up here to get a better view so I can do this right." (i.e. the urge to be "right" outweighs his alleged, three-ish "look good" and "look successful" motivation.)
Just watch his press conferences. His most common answer to why he's doing one thing or another is "because it's the right thing to do."
Michelle Obama gave an interview that appeared in GQ, I think. She says her husband has no instinct for style and appearance. He goes digging through her closets asking, "What do you need all these shoes for?" (and it's typical of a one to be very critical of others, especially close others, but never so much as the one is critical of himself). He also can't remember specific items in Michelle's wardrobe. He'll ask her, occasionally, "Where did that dress come from? Have I seen that before?" I've asked my wife that question more times than I can count. In fact, the way Michelle Obama described her relationship with her husband was so errily similar to my own relationship with my four wife that I asked my wife to read the GQ article, and she concurred. My wife has been living with me for a good while now, and we have both been studying the enneagram for a few years. She thinks she knows a one when she sees one, and she is convinced Obama is a one. If that GQ article is actually refelective of Michelle Obama's personality, she may be a four.
Further evidence cribbed from a post in the Michelle Obama thread:
At a rally last year in New Hampshire, Michelle described falling in love with her husband's ideals. "He talked about the simple notion that we as Americans understand the world as it is-and it is a world sometimes that is disappointing and unfair-but our job as American citizens is to work toward building the world as it should be." Her husband has written that what he wanted more than anything was to be the kind of father he'd never had. After his parents divorced and his father returned to Africa, he visited him only once. In a speech he gave on Father's Day, Obama said, "I resolved many years ago that it was my obligation to break the cycle-that if I could be anything in life, I would be a good father to my girls.''
Obama is still trying to do the right thing, as he understands it, for his country and his children, without the slightest hint that he cares what others think of him. I just can't see him as a three at this point.
-Laelth
Type 1 (wing irrelevant), SX/SO/SP, INTJ
"The only way to always be right is to always be open to the possibility that you are wrong." -Laelth |
Edited by - Laelth on 20 May 2009 09:29:23 AM |
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Dee
Member
6920 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 10:48:42 PM
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I've said it once and I'll say it again, "Obama is Type 9!"
peace
4w3 sx/sp/so
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Edited by - Dee on 04 Jun 2009 10:49:17 PM |
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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2009 : 04:17:43 AM
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That's twice then, isn't it ?
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Estranged Protractor
Member
USA
2670 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2009 : 8:00:18 PM
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Palin's acting more and more like 7 is her type, IMO:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_palin_resigning
quote:
Palin hinted she had a bigger role in mind, saying she wanted to make a "positive change outside government."
quote:
"Many just accept that lame duck status, and they hit that road. They draw a paycheck. They kind of milk it. And I'm not going to put Alaskans through that," she said.
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9angel
Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2009 : 4:19:50 PM
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| Just heard that Sarah Palin is stepping down from her governor-ship in Alaska. :-) |
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9angel
Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2009 : 4:51:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by salome
As for Bush's being a Nine, I find that VERY hard to believe. I just saw some video (television) of him at a basketball game or a baseball game or something. A little girl had come to him--she must have been around 5 years old) to ask for his autograph (you know a parent had sent her over). He didn't look up at her or engage with her in any way, just signed whatever it was she had handed him over his shoulder. Completely ignored this cute little kid! A Nine would never do this! I can't imagine any Nine I have ever known to do this!
To which Stormy replied: "I can - unresponsive; lack of engagement; 'on autopilot'; all lower Health E9 characteristics. Or as bear pointed out, perhaps he just 'didn't want to deal with' her.
-  "
I said:
Stormy, I don't think you've got a good handle on what "unresponsive; lack of engagement; 'on autopilot' or "not wanting to deal with someone" looks like in a 9. And, In the video, rather than being "unresponsive", George Bush was dismissive of the little girl. Arrogant. very unlike 9. |
Edited by - 9angel on 04 Jul 2009 8:27:14 PM |
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9angel
Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2009 : 8:07:31 PM
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Salome posted:
>>Even at average levels, Nines are exquisitely sensitive to those around them. We may not be aware of ourselves all the time, but we are certainly aware of others.[/i]
Bear replied:
I've seen 9s be completely oblivious to what's happening around them and others' feelings. I would never use "exquisitely sensitive" to describe a 9. Not that they can't be, but it certainly isn't a standard characteristic.
_____________________________________________________________________
I say:
Hmmm...I haven't seen that kind of thing with 9s, sounds much more a 5 characteristic to me. 9s tend to be aware, a lot of times too aware, of others, how people are reacting to them, how they are feeling, trying to accommodate them, feeling they shouldn't take up too much space themselves. I have just really never had the experience you report with 9s. Are you sure they were 9s, not 5s? |
Edited by - 9angel on 04 Jul 2009 8:18:30 PM |
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pork
Member
USA
3089 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2009 : 4:26:36 PM
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That depends on how desperate the Nine is for emotional numbness and how successful they are in achieving this state. This is determined partly by the Nine's level of "health," IV stack, and environment, among other parameters.
Some Nines habitually tune out or keep the environment at a psychological distance; this is common among "low-average" or "unhealthy" SP Nines. Among these Nines, some are relatively successful at tuning out the environment. These Nines may have a zombie-like aspect about them. Nines who are unable, either because of innate ability or because of environmental stressors, may be touchy and reactionary.
Some Nines are compulsively receptive and have far less of a tune-out mechanism, or their tune-out mechanism may involve idealizing the environment more than numbing the self; this kind of idealization/receptivity is common among SX Nines. Also, some Nines seem happy to be compulsively receptive, while other Nines may harbor a grudge against this tendency of theirs.
^(oo)^
4w3-6w5-8w9
SP/SX
INFJ |
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mystery2me
Member
955 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2009 : 4:31:47 PM
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| Well, don't you feel important. |
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maryclyens
Member
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2009 : 11:19:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Estranged Protractor
Palin's acting more and more like 7 is her type, IMO:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_palin_resigning
quote:
Palin hinted she had a bigger role in mind, saying she wanted to make a "positive change outside government."
quote:
"Many just accept that lame duck status, and they hit that road. They draw a paycheck. They kind of milk it. And I'm not going to put Alaskans through that," she said.
Always saw her as either a 7 or a 3. You're right though... the last couple weeks adds a few tally marks to the 7 side.
6w7 sp/so
xNxJ on MBTI
How can you rebel when non-conformity is the only thing universally admired? |
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ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2009 : 4:49:30 PM
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The Character of Barack Obama
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bromwich/character-of-barack-obama_b_251186.html
"Obama cherishes the ideal of a frictionless transformation of society. It is a wish for aesthetic harmony, which he mistakes for a political goal. Its attainment would be a beautiful thing. But no matter how much he appeals for comity, Obama is certain to give offense to some. Better to choose your times and targets than allow others to force that choice.
"His aversion to strife was plain from his conduct in the primaries and the general-election campaign. But the degree of avoidance we have seen could never have been predicted. Obama's training, one recalls, was in the community-reform methods of Saul Alinsky; and yet he seems to have adapted the relevant ideas in foreshortened form. The Alinsky process of reform, as Jeffrey Stout has pointed out, goes from powerlessness to power in several stages. There is, first, the public recognition of powerlessness; then the airing of injustices, by legitimate polarization and active protest; then proposals of concrete reform; and only at last, power-sharing and reconciliation.
"The strange thing about Obama is that he seems to suppose a community can pass directly from the sense of real injustice to a full reconciliation between the powerful and the powerless, without any of the unpleasant intervening collisions. This is a choice of emphasis that suits his temperament. " |
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ptypes
Member
5394 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2009 : 1:35:12 PM
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This criticism of Obama centers on his lack of achievement, and it would be devastating if Obama were a 3w4. But it may just reflect the Left's frustration with Obama's and the 9w1's passive and accomodating style.
Is Obama Becoming a Joke?
By David Paul Kuhn
"Most presidents become a joke at some point. It's a matter of when and how. Both points should concern this president. In Winston Churchill's words, "a joke is a very serious thing." Or it can be, when the joke is about a very serious thing.
"Saturday Night Live" has long been a comedic benchmark. Last weekend, SNL took its first hard hit at President Obama. Fred Armisen, who plays the president, gave an Oval Office address questioning why some critics were distraught with him transforming the country: "When you look at my record it's very clear what I've done so far and that is nothing. Nada. Almost one year and nothing to show for it."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/10/08/is_obama_becoming_a_joke__98619.html |
Edited by - ptypes on 08 Oct 2009 1:36:47 PM |
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9angel
Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 12:26:48 PM
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Wonderful video on youtube regarding type 9. Barack Obama shows up in it (he's a 9, take it from this 9, he's a 9.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17YGpit3zRk
I'm curious whether others see THEMSELVES, their own type rather than their own perceptions of another type (in this case, of 9) in Obama? I see a lot of person's of other types saying, "oh, I know a (whatever) and Obama is (that)". I think it really takes one to know one and again I'll say it, as a 9 myself, Barack Obama is a 9. I recognize his energetic quality as my own, his priorities, etc.
I also recognize how others just don't "get it" (meaning where he is coming from). This is really not unusual, I have found, when it comes to 9. That is, I think, because we 9s have been too reticent (indifferent) in talking about ourselves, being willing to let others try and explain us to themselves and to the E'gram community. Only a 9 can know what it is to be a 9 inside and we've got to step up to the plate and speak OUR truth of how we see things and to ask for the respect that is due, as much as to any of the other ways of being.
So often, in other words, others who don't know our interiority speak about us and they can only describe us through the biases of their own type preoccupations and worldviews, their own lenses. Too often, in their view, 9 comes up short. This isn't true for all E'gram teachers (I think Russ Hudson and Helen Palmer have a pretty good feel for the type, in particular Palmer does, perhaps because she, as a 6, has a connecting line to 9.)As for those who don't seem to have a clue--Susan Rhoade's in her description of 9 in her "The Positive Enneagram". Huh??? Does any 9 relate to some of that? 9 as the "Storyteller"??? |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 6:34:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 9angel
I'm curious whether others see THEMSELVES, their own type rather than their own perceptions of another type (in this case, of 9) in Obama? I see a lot of person's of other types saying, "oh, I know a (whatever) and Obama is (that)". I think it really takes one to know one and again I'll say it, as a 9 myself, Barack Obama is a 9. I recognize his energetic quality as my own, his priorities, etc.
I don't see him as my Type.
[Stormy] |
Edited by - Stormy on 07 Nov 2009 6:40:55 PM |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2009 : 12:07:23 PM
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Obama has an 8-wing. This means he essentially gets to completely drop the persnickety detail-neurosis that tangles up the One-wingers and makes them look nervous. The surface smooths out considerably, and looks more like someone who's "got it together".
Besides his so/sp stacking adding the 3-ish 'political animal' colors, it also makes the 'voice' louder (his 'reach' is bigger, more expansive)....louder than we'd expect of a 9. The 8-wing expands it further still because you don't have the One-wing as a dorky micro-manager in the background.
He's Reagan-esque (9w8) in his management style...again, leaving the details to others....and his zeitgeist-appeal resembles Reagan's. Emerson would've called them both 'representative men'. 8-wingers do a better job of representing calm leadership. Think about another example... Walter Cronkite... "the most trusted man in America"; big voice; Simplicity as an ideal. Obama/Reagan/Cronkite are "men as collective shelters". The 'tall grandfather' archetype.
Also, 9s secretly have a big ego about their what's-the-big-deal?-ness, which is a loud tone coming off of Obama. And because he's soc-first, putting this affect on-display becomes part of his social image-management...and therefore looks 3-ish.
You'll also be continuing to hear that he "doesn't move fast enough" - there's your major contrast point in relation to E3.... and adds another point in the 8-wing column...the slow-moving gentle giant.
********* / *
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JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 2:06:05 PM
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I just noticed that Enneagram Explorations have Obama (recently) typed as a 9/1.
???my E-type is under review |
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pork
Member
USA
3089 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 12:26:21 PM
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JoL: I just noticed that Enneagram Explorations have Obama (recently) typed as a 9/1.
I figured they would guess 9w1. Their guesses are identical to mine with alarming frequency.
Why it took such a "long period of observation" is anyone's guess.
^(oo)^
4w3-6w5-8w9
SP/SX
INFJ |
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.ron4
Member
9124 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2009 : 11:52:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoL
I just noticed that Enneagram Explorations have Obama (recently) typed as a 9/1.
???my E-type is under review
what/where is that ? |
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JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 09:55:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
quote:
Originally posted by JoL
I just noticed that Enneagram Explorations have Obama (recently) typed as a 9/1.
???my E-type is under review
what/where is that ?
I saw something about it on facebook. You could probably google it.
That's what I said. |
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2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
