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Desdemona
Member
USA
10419 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 2:59:39 PM
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Sx/sp 9w8
Force-merging. This can be very disturbing, and they can come across as dark to the person they are attempting to force into a merge. It is creepy and uncomfortable.
I was walking past the mental hospital the other day, and all the patients were shouting, '13....13....13.' The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a little gap in the planks, so I looked through to see what was going on. Some idiot poked me in the eye with a stick! Then they all started shouting '14....14....14…....
7w6 cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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9angel
Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 4:31:58 PM
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The story about the candy and the cartoon really made me laugh! Now, regarding the darker sides of 9, a couple of things come to mind. First of all, that 9 is "balancer". If someone is being all, say 4ish melancholic or 6-ish pessimistic, 9 will try and be a balance to this (seeeing that nothing is alwsys this-or-that). So, I think there can be an expression of the macabre or of dark humor--definitely :-)--if one, as a 9, is surrounded by treacly sweet (i.e. some "New Agers", hmmmm? ;-) Balancing that with a bit of salt or bitter.
Also, Riso and Hudson say that 9s with 8 wings at unhealthier levels can look more like 4s at unhealthy levels than what is usually thought of as 9-like, so perhaps that's what you are referring to or asking about??
9 is so much more complex (as are all the types) than they are normally given credit for I think it's that because they can be so complex that people don't really "get them" and often too easily dimsiss them.
Something else that may be going on--this thought came to mind as I viewed the images on the link--and this is that 9s have a capacity for the archetypal that not all the types necessarily have (or have interest in). The images to me weren't so much "disturbing" as archetypal. 4s are sometimes referred to as the "deep-sea divers of the psyche", but I think it's Helen Palmer that has pointed out that it is the 9s, in fact, that go down even further, into the archetypal realms (whereas 4s are masters at going deep into the emotional realms, into the personal and "human condition", while 5s are masterful at the levels of the mental/intellectual.)Sometimes those archetypal images are "disturbing" (think "Kali"), but 9s can really have the capacity to embrace even those aspects of existence as all part of the Whole, the All. Saccharine images? Ugh. I recognize that some 9s love that stuff (and I have known some 2s who really love 'em! ;-), but I'm not one of them! |
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tagua seeds
Member
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2009 : 7:10:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 9angel
Something else that may be going on--this thought came to mind as I viewed the images on the link--and this is that 9s have a capacity for the archetypal that not all the types necessarily have (or have interest in). The images to me weren't so much "disturbing" as archetypal. 4s are sometimes referred to as the "deep-sea divers of the psyche", but I think it's Helen Palmer that has pointed out that it is the 9s, in fact, that go down even further, into the archetypal realms (whereas 4s are masters at going deep into the emotional realms, into the personal and "human condition", while 5s are masterful at the levels of the mental/intellectual.)Sometimes those archetypal images are "disturbing" (think "Kali"), but 9s can really have the capacity to embrace even those aspects of existence as all part of the Whole, the All. Saccharine images? Ugh. I recognize that some 9s love that stuff (and I have known some 2s who really love 'em! ;-), but I'm not one of them!
Hi 9angel,
Which book by Palmer discusses this? Also, what do you mean by "deep-sea-diving" into the archetypes? That 9 can get to the bottom of the other types faster than all the others? |
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banja
Member
42 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 1:23:38 PM
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Even though I am intimidated by every person I meet, I confidently and honestly think that no one has a clue about life the way I do, and that in a way I'm superior.
Even though I am empathetic, I don't care about people as much as they think I do. And even though I don't specifically have an ill wish towards anyone, I present myself as more harmless than I actually am.
I have an ability to manipulate people's reactons towards me due to life schooling from my highly emotionally manipulative father. I use it, even if I don't do it consciously, I do it.
I have an attraction towards morbid things and blood, although I don't think it's abnormal.
I think no one would ever really understand me because I believe most people think too narrowly and black and whitely, even though I myself narcissistically think I understand people and their motives.
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Edited by - banja on 18 Nov 2009 1:28:24 PM |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 3:29:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 9angel
Something else that may be going on--this thought came to mind as I viewed the images on the link--and this is that 9s have a capacity for the archetypal that not all the types necessarily have (or have interest in). The images to me weren't so much "disturbing" as archetypal. 4s are sometimes referred to as the "deep-sea divers of the psyche", but I think it's Helen Palmer that has pointed out that it is the 9s, in fact, that go down even further, into the archetypal realms (whereas 4s are masters at going deep into the emotional realms, into the personal and "human condition", while 5s are masterful at the levels of the mental/intellectual.)Sometimes those archetypal images are "disturbing" (think "Kali"), but 9s can really have the capacity to embrace even those aspects of existence as all part of the Whole, the All. Saccharine images? Ugh. I recognize that some 9s love that stuff (and I have known some 2s who really love 'em! ;-), but I'm not one of them!
Yes.
quote:
Originally posted by banja
Even though I am intimidated by every person I meet, I confidently and honestly think that no one has a clue about life the way I do, and that in a way I'm superior.
Even though I am empathetic, I don't care about people as much as they think I do. And even though I don't specifically have an ill wish towards anyone, I present myself as more harmless than I actually am.
I have an ability to manipulate people's reactons towards me due to life schooling from my highly emotionally manipulative father. I use it, even if I don't do it consciously, I do it.
I have an attraction towards morbid things and blood, although I don't think it's abnormal.
I think no one would ever really understand me because I believe most people think too narrowly and black and whitely, even though I myself narcissistically think I understand people and their motives.
Yes.
********* / *
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Bless
Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 7:41:55 PM
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I see the dark side of 9...lack of taking action when I should, or passive-aggressive acts as being the same thing but at different levels of intensity on the same continuum..if that makes sense. How I react between the two extremes depends on how much direct threat I feel. Lack of taking action is kind of like letting others wear their karma for their actions/thoughts/words. Kind of like 'learn from the consequences of your actions or not.... If I can't gently help you understand, then circumstances might, and if they don't, then maybe I was wrong'. I often express an opinion but its generally done with such brevity and lack of emotion, that I'm sure that people don't hear me 
When I'm passive aggressive, the threat seems more intense...its kind of like I'm aligning with the karmic debt you've created and I'm supporting it...helping it along...if that makes sense...without being seen to directly act.
So...what level of health do you think I'm at LOL! |
Edited by - Bless on 18 Nov 2009 7:45:20 PM |
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robroy
Member
1025 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2009 : 11:26:19 PM
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The disturbing part of 9's is the tendency towards violence when they reach their stress limit. They are an anger type. Anger types are physical types.
6w5
sp-so-sx
INTJ
Conscientious-Vigilant-Aggressive
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banja
Member
42 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 02:22:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by banja
Even though I am intimidated by every person I meet, I confidently and honestly think that no one has a clue about life the way I do, and that in a way I'm superior.
Even though I am empathetic, I don't care about people as much as they think I do. And even though I don't specifically have an ill wish towards anyone, I present myself as more harmless than I actually am.
I have an ability to manipulate people's reactons towards me due to life schooling from my highly emotionally manipulative father. I use it, even if I don't do it consciously, I do it.
I have an attraction towards morbid things and blood, although I don't think it's abnormal.
I think no one would ever really understand me because I believe most people think too narrowly and black and whitely, even though I myself narcissistically think I understand people and their motives.
Yes.
********* / *
:) I expected to be shunned instead |
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ChrisMarr
Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 04:29:02 AM
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I strongly agree with 9angel - nines are natural therapists and they have a knack at hiding their darker side. In fact, nines can be fearless when faced with the unknown... we're just so accepting!
_peace_
Drifting, searching, lost and possibly happy |
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Bless
Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 07:27:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by robroy
The disturbing part of 9's is the tendency towards violence when they reach their stress limit. They are an anger type. Anger types are physical types.
6w5
sp-so-sx
INTJ
Conscientious-Vigilant-Aggressive
This is something that I struggled with when I was much younger. I grew up with some violence (an alcoholic dad that used to beat up on my mum) and I could resort to getting physical if I was pushed beyond my limits...thing is though I always felt [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]e afterwards...I could see how that stuff was affecting my family and I certainly didn't want to recreate that stuff with other people. When I was in senior school we had an old car down the back paddock that I used to attack with a sledge hammer. Kind of like it would be OK to let the anger out on something inanimate, sometimes I'd lay into the car bare fisted until my knuckles were bloody and swollen. There was a mixture of emotions...relief at getting the anger out, shame at that anger, and also fear that I might one day loose control and beat a person like that because that anger release was so intoxicating, I saw it all as a weakness of character. The last time I even thought about expressing anger physically was the last time my dad made a move to hit my mum. I was washing the dishes at the time and I picked up a kitchen knife. I was so calm and collected in that moment and I was absolutely certain that I was going to stop it. I pointed the knife at my dad and everyones face dropped...in that moment my mum was more frightened of me than she was of my dad. I felt so ashamed. I concocted a lie on the spot...'just happened to be washing the knife at the time hadn't intended to use it'. I so sold myself on that lie, that the truth didn't come out until relatively late in my therapy.
But all in all, I think my strategy is to withdraw...if I can't deal with the anger I walk away, for me anger has never really delivered what I want in a situation and infact I feel much worse afterwards...it might be different if I'm prevented from walking away and particularly if I'm physically manhandled. But then its more like self defence...I've learned over time just to avoid being too close to people, both physically and emotionally who may bring that out in me. I feel that any form of violence (physical, emotional, or spiritual) is abhorent so I certainly don't want to be in situations that might evoke it in me.
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 08:02:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by banja
:) I expected to be shunned instead
Nope, welcomed with open arms. :)
********* / *
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JoL
Member
USA
2058 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 1:13:31 PM
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YIKES...you could have warned us df.
7/6sx/sp
That's what I said. |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 3:30:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoL
YIKES...you could have warned us df.
7/6sx/sp
That's what I said.
********* / *
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Quebranta
Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 3:36:57 PM
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hahahaha that was gross!
sp/sx E3w4
ESTJ |
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banja
Member
42 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2009 : 5:39:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by banja
:) I expected to be shunned instead
Nope, welcomed with open arms. :)
********* / *
:).
Repellingly charming.
I think I was a leech in my past lifetime. |
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the darker side of the 9?
