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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 06:46:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
dfgray44, what do you consider to be stratospherically brilliant art?
Here's a few: Debussy, Beethoven, Mozart, Klimt, Gershwin, Kubrick, Cole Porter, Bergman
I think Bergman seems quite healthy in interviews, especially if he was a social 4w5.
I think Kubrick may have been quite healthy too. He had some issues, but I didn't any evidence that he wasn't healthy.
I don't know very much about the others, so can't comment on them.
I think peop of both average and healthy temperaments have been brilliantly creative, but I think the art that really changes the world for the better is done by healthy folk.
Healthy people are exceedingly rare. At best, I'd put the percentage at somewhere between 1% - 3% of the population.
Disagree. I would say that, more like, the percentage of people at 'level 1' is 1% - 3% of the pop. I know a few people I would consider in the healthy range, not many though. I do agree they are a minority.
Secondly, there's no requirement of good health to produce good art - that's the bugaboo for the health-minded person as they consider artists.
Agree, but I was saying that I would think that most art that changes the world for the better is done by healthy people. But sure, average or even unhealthy people can produce brilliant art if they are gifted enough.
The creative flash/moment is precisely when the thoughts have stopped. These 'flashes' come to people who protect and revere a place in themselves which is profoundly separate from communal norms, including ideas about 'health' and spiritual living....and even including the influence of the artist's own good health, if he attains it.
The reality of the existence of great artists is not just unfair - it's one of the very most brutal bits of unfairness there is.
I don't think I would say it's unfair, as I don't think the art they create will benefit the average-unhealthy artist the same way it would the healthy one. Besides possible recognition and pride, it won't really do them any good if they don't have the 'health' to appreciate it as it is the way a healthy person would. I also think the underlying intentionality behind the art will determine whether the person benefits from creating it or not.
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 06:54:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
Angelina Jolie = sx 6w7
I've considered that before, but I'm still not sure. If she's a 4, she's definitely 4w3 and imo sp/sx. If she's a 6, she's definitely sx.
That was merely a gut-level impressionistic typing. I really can't explain why I think she's a 6w7 other than this vague sense that she embodies a certain mixture of vulnerability and toughness that I experience commonly unique to Sixes.
I find that often with Fours, too. Watching interviews of her, I find it amazing how socially relaxed she is, and how easily she communicates. But them, I find this with all the Fours I know IRL. I seem to be the only Four I know with this dreaded 'people disconnection', all the others seem to be able to communicate, connect and establish friendships easily. Hmph.
Alanis Morissette seems to skirt the 4/6 line, if it exists. I wonder if she really is a 6w5?
I would doubt it. SP 4s can seem 6ish.
Also, none of the aforementioned 4's or quasi-4's mentioned in this thread I would even consider to be "healthy" ...
Why don't you think Regina Spektor is healthy?
I argue they only seem healthy because they are being compared to those who I would think to be in the mid to low average health range (if one could quantify and qualify such a range). Level 3 (and beyond) health is a rare event that I have yet to really observe in a person for long periods of time. Sustaining such a level for a time, beyond a year say, would qualify you for sainthood in my eyes. I have NEVER witnessed such a person.
Interesting. I think the core issues associated with the neurosis of the type is bound to play up in some way, I don't think I've ever met a person who has completely transcended the shortcomings and pitfalls of a type. But, just because the negative characteristics associated with a type are evident, doesn't mean they aren't healthy. How they deal with their issues and how well/quickly they 'get over it' would be what would suggests health or non-health. Healthy people make better choices and are not controlled by their ego fixations.
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randy mizer
Member
67 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 11:52:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
Angelina Jolie = sx 6w7
I've considered that before, but I'm still not sure. If she's a 4, she's definitely 4w3 and imo sp/sx. If she's a 6, she's definitely sx.
That was merely a gut-level impressionistic typing. I really can't explain why I think she's a 6w7 other than this vague sense that she embodies a certain mixture of vulnerability and toughness that I experience commonly unique to Sixes.
I find that often with Fours, too. Watching interviews of her, I find it amazing how socially relaxed she is, and how easily she communicates. But them, I find this with all the Fours I know IRL.
She does have a seemingly smooth presentation, which I can see as a connection to 3 (whether by wing or dis/integration). The vulnerability/toughness complex I made mention about is just something I experience most often with Sixes, for a lack of a better description. It's like a Six can't decide whether to be outwardly vulnerable, like a Four (I experience Fours as mostly sensitive and vulnerable ... and that's not to suggest that Fours don't have an inner toughness), or be domineering like an Eight. It's as if they have two alternating strategies to deal with the same issues.
I seem to be the only Four I know with this dreaded 'people disconnection', all the others seem to be able to communicate, connect and establish friendships easily. Hmph.
Is this why you think of yourself as a 5-winger perhaps? I can understanding not being able to connect with others easily. I really am naive to what I do or say that causes others to steer clear from me. I know some see me as child-like and therefore are more apt to look down at me like one (I don't know how that translates online though). As much as I love my alone time, I really hate it also. Being self-preservation primary, I sometimes wish I didn't have the strain of the secondary and tertiary instincts nagging at me to get out more. Dealing with others has always been a sticky issue for me.
Alanis Morissette seems to skirt the 4/6 line, if it exists. I wonder if she really is a 6w5?
I would doubt it. SP 4s can seem 6ish.
I thought Social 4's seem more Six-like? Nonetheless, I can see your point. SP primary types are concerned with security and meeting needs, regardless of E-type. This can certainly seem 6-like. As far as Alanis MOrissette goes, I'm not really convinced of her type either way, so I'm open to the possibility of her being a sp 4w3 or some combination of 6.
Also, none of the aforementioned 4's or quasi-4's mentioned in this thread I would even consider to be "healthy" ...
Why don't you think Regina Spektor is healthy?
You've merely hit a skeptical wall with me. I'm more prone to believe somebody isn't healthy than to think the otherwise. I really don't much about her to actually state with certainty. So my default answer seems to be, "I seriously doubt it."
But then, you are conversating with somebody who has witnessed people firsthand who seem very outwardly healthy, but are conversely demonic privately.
I argue they only seem healthy because they are being compared to those who I would think to be in the mid to low average health range (if one could quantify and qualify such a range). Level 3 (and beyond) health is a rare event that I have yet to really observe in a person for long periods of time. Sustaining such a level for a time, beyond a year say, would qualify you for sainthood in my eyes. I have NEVER witnessed such a person.
Interesting. I think the core issues associated with the neurosis of the type is bound to play up in some way, I don't think I've ever met a person who has completely transcended the shortcomings and pitfalls of a type. But, just because the negative characteristics associated with a type are evident, doesn't mean they aren't healthy. How they deal with their issues and how well/quickly they 'get over it' would be what would suggests health or non-health. Healthy people make better choices and are not controlled by their ego fixations.
No offense, but I seem to have a higher standard when it comes to judging the healthiness of others. It's not that I expect people to meet these lofty ideals of mine, because I don't. I expect humans to be humans, not saints, and unfortunately, one of the more defining traits of humanity is its flagrant inhumanity.
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the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 12:10:57 PM
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How popular the idea a tough woman could be a Four is!
Tori Amos who's a 4w3. I know little about her exact health, but her music and her capacity for emotional expression most always strikes me.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
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the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 1:05:41 PM
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Perhaps the concept of 'health' should be wiped out and replaced by something like 'life force'; some have it others don't, we're all individuals who share 9 distinct personality types, who have degrees of this 9 sorts of life force. All that matters is what we do with it and to a lesser extent what happens to it.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 1:10:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
I think that most of the great artists would have continued to be great or have been even greater had they been happier and that there are many others who would have achieved something of worth had they been healthier.
My point (about 'health and the artist') was only about the artist's skill-set within the creative space. Taking-the-art-into-the-world is a whole other animal, though it can have an effect on how much interest and time the artist applies to creating. Some degree of worldly success (or outer support of some kind) can affect the artist's attitudes and ability to assign meaning to life, and thus support his/her time-spent in creative space. Sometimes, though, this only expands the view of the meaninglessness of everything.
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 2:01:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
Can anyone give me an example (preferably including a video link) of someone they believe to be a Very Healthy Four?
Annie Lennox seems pretty balanced. I'm looking at her objectivity and contentment with life.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc-bWtOQ7j4
I think the debate here about health and artistic greatness is interesting. I suppose talent and health don't correlate. My favuorite author was pretty messed up but still able to channel into "the personal and universal". hmmm, on the main site very unhealthy fours are said to be "fatigued". Must be pretty hard to write if you're emotionally drained and ashamed of yourself. |
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 2:06:47 PM
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Does anyone think that art extracts a heavy cost from life?
That maybe a paranoid sensitivity and a sharp eye for insults for example, could make you an interesting writer but ruin your life?
I have to admit, I have been more interested in people who have made a mess of their lives than those who are stable. They almost seem more alive. |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 01:39:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer
Angelina Jolie = sx 6w7
I've considered that before, but I'm still not sure. If she's a 4, she's definitely 4w3 and imo sp/sx. If she's a 6, she's definitely sx.
That was merely a gut-level impressionistic typing. I really can't explain why I think she's a 6w7 other than this vague sense that she embodies a certain mixture of vulnerability and toughness that I experience commonly unique to Sixes.
I find that often with Fours, too. Watching interviews of her, I find it amazing how socially relaxed she is, and how easily she communicates. But them, I find this with all the Fours I know IRL.
She does have a seemingly smooth presentation, which I can see as a connection to 3 (whether by wing or dis/integration). The vulnerability/toughness complex I made mention about is just something I experience most often with Sixes, for a lack of a better description. It's like a Six can't decide whether to be outwardly vulnerable, like a Four (I experience Fours as mostly sensitive and vulnerable ... and that's not to suggest that Fours don't have an inner toughness), or be domineering like an Eight. It's as if they have two alternating strategies to deal with the same issues.
I see what you mean about how Sixes have a vulnerable/tough complex - it's suits their type. What you've said about them is also very accurate. Still, I've found that Fours can want to project a 'tough' image, particularly SX Fours (one sx/so Four I know really wanted to appear 'tough'). Though, I think Fours can make a point of making themselves appear more vulnerable than they actually are. I've done this before. SP Fours can be a lot tougher than they appear - when healthy, they are supposed to be very tenacious.
I seem to be the only Four I know with this dreaded 'people disconnection', all the others seem to be able to communicate, connect and establish friendships easily. Hmph.
Is this why you think of yourself as a 5-winger perhaps?
When I originally discovered The Enneagram, I thought I was probably a Five, though I couldn't decided between that and Four. I think I could (this is more a past thing) easily be mistaken for a Five, and at the time my parents seemed to think that Five suited me more. I can relate to Five in big way, so much that sometimes I wonder if it is my type, but the Four issues and description are really far more accurate. I can still relate to Three, in that I desire success and status, have a huge need for validation and a preoccupation with image. Unlike the Three, I am not adaptable or productive. Though I'm more like the Five in behaviour, I'm possibly more like Three in motivation; I think this is because I am in the image triad, and the motivations of those in the same triad are similar or revolve around a similiar theme.
I can understanding not being able to connect with others easily. I really am naive to what I do or say that causes others to steer clear from me. I know some see me as child-like and therefore are more apt to look down at me like one (I don't know how that translates online though). As much as I love my alone time, I really hate it also. Being self-preservation primary, I sometimes wish I didn't have the strain of the secondary and tertiary instincts nagging at me to get out more. Dealing with others has always been a sticky issue for me.
Alanis Morissette seems to skirt the 4/6 line, if it exists. I wonder if she really is a 6w5?
I would doubt it. SP 4s can seem 6ish.
I thought Social 4's seem more Six-like?
Haven't heard that before. I'm social and Six is one of the types I relate to the least.
Nonetheless, I can see your point. SP primary types are concerned with security and meeting needs, regardless of E-type. This can certainly seem 6-like. As far as Alanis MOrissette goes, I'm not really convinced of her type either way, so I'm open to the possibility of her being a sp 4w3 or some combination of 6.
Also, none of the aforementioned 4's or quasi-4's mentioned in this thread I would even consider to be "healthy" ...
Why don't you think Regina Spektor is healthy?
You've merely hit a skeptical wall with me. I'm more prone to believe somebody isn't healthy than to think the otherwise. I really don't much about her to actually state with certainty. So my default answer seems to be, "I seriously doubt it."
But then, you are conversating with somebody who has witnessed people firsthand who seem very outwardly healthy, but are conversely demonic privately.
I personally don't think you can ever really know if anyone besides yourself is healthy, you can only say 'from what I've seen, this person seems...', but even that will have your own bias, produced from your type's 'reality filter'.
I argue they only seem healthy because they are being compared to those who I would think to be in the mid to low average health range (if one could quantify and qualify such a range). Level 3 (and beyond) health is a rare event that I have yet to really observe in a person for long periods of time. Sustaining such a level for a time, beyond a year say, would qualify you for sainthood in my eyes. I have NEVER witnessed such a person.
Interesting. I think the core issues associated with the neurosis of the type is bound to play up in some way, I don't think I've ever met a person who has completely transcended the shortcomings and pitfalls of a type. But, just because the negative characteristics associated with a type are evident, doesn't mean they aren't healthy. How they deal with their issues and how well/quickly they 'get over it' would be what would suggests health or non-health. Healthy people make better choices and are not controlled by their ego fixations.
No offense, but I seem to have a higher standard when it comes to judging the healthiness of others. It's not that I expect people to meet these lofty ideals of mine, because I don't. I expect humans to be humans, not saints, and unfortunately, one of the more defining traits of humanity is its flagrant inhumanity.
What are your ideals and standards? Can you give me an example of a famous person (of any type) you consider healthy? I think some healthy skepticism is probably a good thing, but it's an important factor in health to try to see the good in people. I've noticed that whn I'm healthier, I see the good in people more, and they come across healthier. When I'm not so healthy it's the opposite. I've been in a lowsy place this past week, and it's been reflecting in how I register things; my massive fear of being defective and repulsive is playing up like crazy, I seem to be seeing signs of it everywhere.
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Edited by - enneathing on 18 Oct 2009 02:32:04 AM |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 01:43:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Classi
Annie Lennox seems pretty balanced. I'm looking at her objectivity and contentment with life.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc-bWtOQ7j4
What wing/stack do you think? |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 05:32:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by skunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eZfZOTWCyc
so/sx 5 winger. see from 4:30
Thanks for posting this. I think that typing seems right, interesting interview too. |
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lovexsaidxno
Member
Romania
2773 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 06:28:21 AM
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i really don't see angelina jolie as a 4. seems like a total sx 6 to me, i see a lot of dichotomies that i don't in 4 (4s can have dichotomies, i'm just saying these aren't 4ish to me). she lacks the sort of 'internal aesthetic', the kind of self-enclosedness, self-referentiality of 4. with 4s, there is a kind of inner world you know their cultivating like a selfish demiurge, which becomes a basis from which all their externality references. i don't get that from her.
she also seems too 'expulsive' for a 4. extroverted isn't the right word, but it's in the same neighborhood. she might be hiding from the press, like any self-respecting person would, but she doesn't seem to have that hidden, aloof quality as part of her general character, to me.
albert camus was a 4/3 who seems rather healthy to me - intelligent, active in the world, physically active, able to create something really beautiful in his philosophy.
________________________________
The 4omantic, 5 wing.
For I am divided for love's sake, for the chance of union. |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 12:00:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
[quote]Originally posted by dfgray44
[quote]Originally posted by enneathing
dfgray44, what do you consider to be stratospherically brilliant art?
Here's a few: Debussy, Beethoven, Mozart, Klimt, Gershwin, Kubrick, Cole Porter, Bergman
I think Bergman seems quite healthy in interviews, especially if he was a social 4w5.
I think Kubrick may have been quite healthy too. He had some issues, but I didn't any evidence that he wasn't healthy.
Neurosis is the ego's reflex. If a person hasn't made some conscious effort to attain health it isn't likely to arrive on its own.
I think peop of both average and healthy temperaments have been brilliantly creative, but I think the art that really changes the world for the better is done by healthy folk.
[blue]Healthy people are exceedingly rare. At best, I'd put the percentage at somewhere between 1% - 3% of the population.
Disagree. I would say that, more like, the percentage of people at 'level 1' is 1% - 3% of the pop. I know a few people I would consider in the healthy range, not many though. I do agree they are a minority.
People at Level 4 are 'high-functioning' neurotics. It's often mistaken for health.
Secondly, there's no requirement of good health to produce good art - that's the bugaboo for the health-minded person as they consider artists.
Agree, but I was saying that I would think that most art that changes the world for the better is done by healthy people. But sure, average or even unhealthy people can produce brilliant art if they are gifted enough.
To me, your comments point to an underlying belief about the upper aesthetic atmosphere only being available to 'the healthy'. It's unfortunately not the case. It doesn't make sense that the artist goes where he goes. And there's no way to make it 'right' in relation to morals or the superego's thought process.
I don't know how you feel about the Beatles - whether they changed things for the better or not - I bring them up as 'artists who changed things' - but they were never 'healthy'.
The creative flash/moment is precisely when the thoughts have stopped. These 'flashes' come to people who protect and revere a place in themselves which is profoundly separate from communal norms, including ideas about 'health' and spiritual living....and even including the influence of the artist's own good health, if he attains it.
The reality of the existence of great artists is not just unfair - it's one of the very most brutal bits of unfairness there is.
I don't think I would say it's unfair, as I don't think the art they create will benefit the average-unhealthy artist the same way it would the healthy one. Besides possible recognition and pride, it won't really do them any good if they don't have the 'health' to appreciate it as it is the way a healthy person would. I also think the underlying intentionality behind the art will determine whether the person benefits from creating it or not.
I wasn't talking about unfairness as relates to the art benefitting the artist's health or well-being. I was referring to the great artist's position as a person who rose above the mundane churn of bodies and body-making, despite their never having lifted a finger toward the pursuit of 'health'.
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 12:29:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by Classi
Annie Lennox seems pretty balanced. I'm looking at her objectivity and contentment with life.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc-bWtOQ7j4
What wing/stack do you think?
Lennox is unmaterialistic-has strong opinions and expresses them so I'd say 4w5.
She's idealistic and humanitarian which would suggest so/sp to me. Noone laugh but she does kinda remind me of Marilyn Manson.
This judgement would make her the same type and stacking as you enneathing 
What do you make of her quotes? http://thinkexist.com/quotes/annie_lennox/ |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2009 : 4:50:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Classi
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
quote:
Originally posted by Classi
Annie Lennox seems pretty balanced. I'm looking at her objectivity and contentment with life.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc-bWtOQ7j4
What wing/stack do you think?
Lennox is unmaterialistic-has strong opinions and expresses them so I'd say 4w5.
She's idealistic and humanitarian which would suggest so/sp to me. Noone laugh but she does kinda remind me of Marilyn Manson.
This judgement would make her the same type and stacking as you enneathing
What do you make of her quotes? http://thinkexist.com/quotes/annie_lennox/
I was actually thinking 4w3 sx/so...
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Desdemona
Member
USA
10419 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 2:23:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Classi
Does anyone think that art extracts a heavy cost from life?
That maybe a paranoid sensitivity and a sharp eye for insults for example, could make you an interesting writer but ruin your life?
I have to admit, I have been more interested in people who have made a mess of their lives than those who are stable. They almost seem more alive.
I think more often an ultra sensitivity can make someone a great artist of any type, yet also ruin their life. Isn't basically every artist an especially sensitive soul? (not talking about the "paranoid sensitivity and a sharp eye for insults" you mentioned, but extreme sensitivity in general)
I was walking past the mental hospital the other day, and all the patients were shouting, '13....13....13.' The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a little gap in the planks, so I looked through to see what was going on. Some idiot poked me in the eye with a stick! Then they all started shouting '14....14....14…....
7w6 cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2009 : 1:57:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
quote:
Originally posted by Classi
Does anyone think that art extracts a heavy cost from life?
That maybe a paranoid sensitivity and a sharp eye for insults for example, could make you an interesting writer but ruin your life?
I have to admit, I have been more interested in people who have made a mess of their lives than those who are stable. They almost seem more alive.
I think more often an ultra sensitivity can make someone a great artist of any type, yet also ruin their life. Isn't basically every artist an especially sensitive soul? (not talking about the "paranoid sensitivity and a sharp eye for insults" you mentioned, but extreme sensitivity in general)
I was walking past the mental hospital the other day, and all the patients were shouting, '13....13....13.' The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a little gap in the planks, so I looked through to see what was going on. Some idiot poked me in the eye with a stick! Then they all started shouting '14....14....14…....
7w6 cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
It's true, most artists, performers, actors, singers seem to have faced particularly difficult struggles in their lives.
Art could be a coping method that highly sensitive people use to find the fulfilment in life that they can't find in the day to day. Many different paths to health maybe.
Without mortality and suffering and the possibility of overcoming these there's not much to strive for. People who suffer more need art to reach health maybe? of all types?. I like seeing the approach that each type takes to overcoming their suffering in their art. I can think of artist examples of all nine types who show that their art is responding to darkness and pain, and they all take a neat different approach. It's a shame that only the art of 4s , 5s and 9s is discussed on the "Type comparisons" on the site. |
Edited by - Classi on 20 Oct 2009 1:59:00 PM |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 03:23:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by manda7panda
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
Can anyone give me an example (preferably including a video link) of someone they believe to be a Very Healthy Four? Also include what you think their wing subtype and IV stacking are.
I'll include my own input on this later. First, I want to see what people come up with.
I don't know that much about him, so I'll just throw this out there and those who have more basis for an opinion can say yay or nay...
Rumi?
2w1 - ENFP
Very intriguing thought. I'd be interested to hear an explanation...  |
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randy mizer
Member
67 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 03:59:19 AM
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quote:
What are your ideals and standards? Can you give me an example of a famous person (of any type) you consider healthy?
Simply put, my ideal is for pure love.
I'm looking for a "higher" type of love. A type of love that can transcend not only one's own fixation, but can and will transcend mine. I'm searching for a conditional kind of love that loves me for me unconditionally as opposed to the unconditional kind that loves "all", which is the kind of non-discriminating watered-down love that cannot make any kind of distinction between a piece of rotting [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] from one that (merely) feels like it is a piece of rotting [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]. Anything less than this is not the real deal to me.
It seems at some point, I decided others simply did not have even an iota of this (and it was a TAD unfair to believe others could actually give a little of what they don't have); my conclusion was I was going to have to find this within myself. I'm obviously still working on that.
Also: I don't know of any famous person (at least offhand) that I would consider to be healthy. but then, I don't follow any person religiously so that I would know enough to determine its level of health.
quote:
I think some healthy skepticism is probably a good thing, but it's an important factor in health to try to see the good in people. I've noticed that whn I'm healthier, I see the good in people more, and they come across healthier. When I'm not so healthy it's the opposite.
Are you suggesting I'm unhealthy?
I'm sure there is good in others, but it aint good enough for moi.
quote:
I've been in a lowsy place this past week, and it's been reflecting in how I register things; my massive fear of being defective and repulsive is playing up like crazy, I seem to be seeing signs of it everywhere.
I think I'm defective and repulsive too. Not sure how my feelings differ from your Fourish perspective though. |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 07:52:56 AM
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randy mizer - Sorry, no I wasn't suggesting you were unhealthy, I was worried it would come across that way. I was actually referring to the fact that I've been feeling unhealthy lately, so people in general haven't been appearing particularly healthy.
You do seem like an idealist, and I'm one too, but I've found that letting go the idealistic images we have of other people and ourselves is the best to see them for they truly are, and to see the best in them. I hope you find the 'higher' love you're searching for. |
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Veiled One
Member
4731 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 12:15:15 PM
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I have Annie Lennox as 4w3 sx/sp. Her most conspicuous vibe has been that of the operatic-diva, very beautiful, and I saw none of the horrors, spooks, and "I am weirder than everyone else" outsider mentality of Manson.
She's rather unambiguously sx-first too.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 5:07:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Veiled One
I have Annie Lennox as 4w3 sx/sp. Her most conspicuous vibe has been that of the operatic-diva, very beautiful, and I saw none of the horrors, spooks, and "I am weirder than everyone else" outsider mentality of Manson.
She's rather unambiguously sx-first too.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
I think that's probably right.
I see her as having a quite strong Three wing in fact. (In a good way as it grounds her.) |
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 5:20:59 PM
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Yeah, I see that.
I remembered seeing her perform at live 8 where she was all "save the world, feed the children!" and thinking social 4w5, but at an event like that everyone will come accross that way.
I think I have a tendency to overcomplicate my approach to the instinctual variants
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 5:24:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
"I am weirder than everyone else" outsider mentality of Manson
lol, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOhcNWtBFUo
Pretty much captures the spirit of 4w5 |
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2009 : 9:03:55 PM
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manda7panda - fine, no explanation then. 
Yes, she struck me as very sx, but not socially oblivious enough to be sx/sp... To me, at least.
That bit at the end: 'Can I slap you now?'. Hahahaha. I was like, that's sooooo sx. |
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Topic |
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Example of a Very Healthy Four
