| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Veiled One
Member
4731 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 02:48:39 AM
|
Er...I hope we're not going to run into that "if someone expresses emotions strongly in their art, they are Fours (or not Fives)". They will be flamed very, very hard.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
 |
|
|
marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 08:07:49 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by thesingularsensation
http://www.napacabs.com/Merkin-2006-Chupacabra-Caduceus-California-Red-Wine-Maynard-James-Keenan-P2878.aspx
I have seen enough of him (not a fan of his band) to grant him sp/sx status. You all can argue over type, but he's certainly no four. And I don't understand why anyone would think him particularly healthy, anyway. I mean, he's obviously nothing like Ashton Kutcher.
jesus loves a cheerful four.
Maybe if it was a white wine...but red? I think that points to sx.
But agree, there's no evidence whatsoever that he's healthy, whatever his type or stacking. |
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 11:03:46 AM
|
quote:
Er...I hope we're not going to run into that "if someone expresses emotions strongly in their art, they are Fours (or not Fives)". They will be flamed very, very hard.
Not from I...
Shawn says he will take him to 5w6w5 camp with him tho |
|
|
|
the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 12:45:17 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by skunk
I see SX as the archetype of "the lover" -- and that's where the simplicity ends: love is complicated and sublimation and sexuality make it worse.
I'm pretty certain that Keenan's no 4-winger: his awkwardness comes from a purely schizoid place, not orality; feeling small as opposed to feeling ashamed.
Hmm..he has 5w4 vibes to me. What do you mean by 5w4-ish orality?
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
|
|
the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 1:21:53 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpionical
quote:
5w4 vibes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUXBCdt5IPg
LOL! what a good example you give Scorp, "the sadistic voyeur" huh? 'The Universe is hostile/ So impersonal...' Yes, indeed..
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 1:34:23 PM
|
quote:
even his body language on stage - his posture - symbolise that feeling of smallness. Fetal-like.
I thought fetal-like the epidome of sensitive 5w4..Thinking of Kurt Cobain and even Mister Bewilders sig for a long time..? |
|
|
|
the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 1:37:19 PM
|
I don't know much about him to talk on him but I don't like Tool's videos either, at least what I've seen so far. Perhaps their videos aren't his fault. About Cobain, I must confess a little heresy of mine: I rather believe he's a 4w5 or even a 5w6 before he could be a 5w4. IMHO. Cobain to me is rebellious and detached but not emotional, not emotional enough.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
Edited by - the_eye on 29 Oct 2009 1:40:02 PM |
|
|
|
awakening
Member
USA
1761 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 1:49:29 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by the_eye
I don't know much about him to talk on him but I don't like Tool's videos either, at least what I've seen so far. Perhaps their videos aren't his fault. About Cobain, I must confess a little heresy of mine: I rather believe he's a 4w5 or even a 5w6 before he could be a 5w4. IMHO. Cobain to me is rebellious and detached but not emotional, not emotional enough.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht'
5w4 is not more emotional than 4w5. |
|
|
|
enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 2:31:13 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Veiled One
I have aestrivex as sp/sx. He doesn't have much sx preoccuptions I will argue. sx does not equal confrontational and aggressive. Sure, their energy tends to cause reactions from others, but to me sx has no ownership to aggression.
Some might even call sx the "make love not war" instinct, but I am not going to go that far yet.
This hasn't been my experience. My real understanding of the differences between the instincts has come from comparing myself to other Fours I know of different instinctual variants. The SX Fours seem far more involved, connected, impulsive than myself, and to a lesser extent than an SP Four I know (though she's still involved and connected - she just seems to value privacy and alone time more). All in all, they seem more aggressive and forceful.
SO seems to value 'social harmony' more, whereas SX does not care so much. Because of this, it seems to me that SX will be less socially constrained, and therefore more likely to act out on impulses. Hence the reason why SO Fours are often the quietest and SX Fours, IME, the most extraverted and confident (keeping in mind that I've only known SX Three wingers, and I'm the only SO Four I know). SP has a more contained energy, but it is not because of an adherence to social etiquette that they will be this way. SX may carry a lot of frustration though - maybe more than SO - but I can't quite put my finger on where this frustration comes from. Obviously all the variants are frustrated about different things, I guess. The SX instinct is quite hard for me to fully grasp and get a clear notion of - and yet I think I can sense its difference from SO and SP. It is hard to define the differences between the instincts though - particularly SX and SO.
I'm not sure if the SX instinct would be the most aggressive and forceful in the case of all types, but it seems to me that the nature of the instinct lends itself to having an antagonistic bent. In people I assume to be SX, there's a need to contradict, to oppose - but there's also a need to seduce, to attract. The SX instinct can be seen as the instinct representing 'union' - two forces which merge together to form one. This seems to be what the SX first-er longs for in life - someone who will 'complete' them and be their other half. So, they believe they are not complete without this 'other half', and that is the source of frustration. There is also a kind of magnetic opposition going on, a polarity - like in an electrical polarity where positive and negative forces are needed to merge together and form one. SPs are different in that they already see themselves as 'one', but they have fears and insecurities regarding their physical existence, whether they survive or not. They seem to represent 'neutrality' (in the most general sense, I'm not saying SP types are neutral), while SX represents 'opposition'. Can't really think of a word that sums up what SO represents.
But yeah, calling the SX instinct 'make love not war' would cause a raised eyebrow from me. |
|
|
|
the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 2:52:01 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by awakening
quote:
Originally posted by the_eye
I don't know much about him to talk on him but I don't like Tool's videos either, at least what I've seen so far. Perhaps their videos aren't his fault. About Cobain, I must confess a little heresy of mine: I rather believe he's a 4w5 or even a 5w6 before he could be a 5w4. IMHO. Cobain to me is rebellious and detached but not emotional, not emotional enough.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht'
5w4 is not more emotional than 4w5.
Yeah, I was thinking Cobain as a 5w6.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 3:08:53 PM
|
What exactly is Keenan's talent? It's not in the music, so...is it the lyrics?
A purely technical description of Tool music: brown (kind of like how Grunge is generally brown [Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, etc]), but with Tool the meaninglessness and unattractiveness of the brown are augmented by washed-out grayish-ness...a kind of emotional anti-matter.
It's "hip" because it's depressed/morose/bleak, i.e.- post-Apocalyptic cynicism.....but the emperor has no clothes on. The emotional architecture is some of the flattest I've ever heard. Imagine a room with no windows or doors...with the walls, floor and ceiling covered in beige sandpaper.
I hope, for everyone's sake, that the lyrics are incredible.....
********* / *
|
|
|
|
Veiled One
Member
4731 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 3:28:18 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
This hasn't been my experience. My real understanding of the differences between the instincts has come from comparing myself to other Fours I know of different instinctual variants. The SX Fours seem far more involved, connected, impulsive than myself, and to a lesser extent than an SP Four I know (though she's still involved and connected - she just seems to value privacy and alone time more). All in all, they seem more aggressive and forceful.
I only said that sx doesn't equal aggressive and confrontational. I think different stackings are confrontational for different reasons (of course!) so for instance, when a sp's personal space and belongings are messed with, they probably react much more strongly than those of other variants first. I've seen my sp/sx sister completely worked up with how other people handle her cd's, for instance.
Also, I am not limiting the idea to type Four...
The sx instinct goes to war for its Helen--but the Helens sure aren't the principal causes of most wars are they? Aggression can be invoked by reasons that most concern the sp and the soc's as well.
I do agree sx is about looking for *the other half*...and about mating. I do not find the problems of mating, intimacy, sexuality, and the missing piece to be the greatest source behind aestrivex's aggression.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
Edited by - Veiled One on 29 Oct 2009 3:30:51 PM |
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 3:33:46 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
What exactly is Keenan's talent? It's not in the music, so...is it the lyrics?
A purely technical description of Tool music: brown (kind of like how Grunge is generally brown [Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, etc]), but with Tool the meaninglessness and unattractiveness of the brown are augmented by washed-out grayish-ness...a kind of emotional anti-matter.
It's "hip" because it's depressed/morose/bleak, i.e.- post-Apocalyptic cynicism.....but the emperor has no clothes on. The emotional architecture is some of the flattest I've ever heard. Imagine a room with no windows or doors...with the walls, floor and ceiling covered in beige sandpaper.
I hope, for everyone's sake, that the lyrics are incredible.....
********* / *
And what took you so long? |
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 3:41:29 PM
|
I didn't want to insult you again, so soon, my Dear. Ironically though, I'm destined to be a tool.
********* / *
|
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 3:55:31 PM
|
quote:
I didn't want to insult you again, so soon, my Dear. Ironically though, I'm destined to be a tool.
mmmm I don't believe it, sorry...
|
|
|
|
Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 4:10:41 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
This seems to be what the SX first-er longs for in life - someone who will 'complete' them and be their other half.
This is where I get confused, because this is what I believed to be at the heart of type four. What's different for how a sx first four experiences it, is the need just stronger?
|
|
|
|
.ron4
Member
9125 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 4:16:59 PM
|
4s are also about unrealistic ideas/dreams, fantacies.
ron |
|
|
|
tagua seeds
Member
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 4:51:39 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Classi
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing
This seems to be what the SX first-er longs for in life - someone who will 'complete' them and be their other half.
This is where I get confused, because this is what I believed to be at the heart of type four. What's different for how a sx first four experiences it, is the need just stronger?
4 is about personal significance and meaning, stemming from a desire of recovering that missing something. The "other half" is just one of many components of this and is more pronounced in the sexual variant. |
|
|
|
faultyideal
Member
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 11:04:39 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpionical
Seems like 13th step fits together to tell a story. I like it and have done artwork based loosely around it and what I pair it with. I would never post here tho.
Haha and just why not? It sounds interesting.
I've done a video based around some of the concepts of Lateralus, but I'd be embarrassed to show it. It was just a short story infused with my meanings to the songs.
INFP 4w5 sp/sx? |
|
|
|
faultyideal
Member
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2009 : 11:14:05 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
I hope, for everyone's sake, that the lyrics are incredible.....
He has always said he waits until the music is written, then he gets a feeling from it and writes what he feels/thinks. In my opinion the lyrics from their middle albums are amazing.
The music serves in the same way that a 4's imagination sort of ramps up existing feelings, to me at least...
If you want Keenan singing to emotional music, listen to A Perfect Circle, a rock band instead of overly-technical progressive metal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWFv5ZoVET8
That song used to make me cry, listened to it too much, now just brings back memories, borderline melancholy-inducing.
I don't know why someone would say Marylin Manson is a 4, but Maynard could not be, not even give off Fourish vibes.
I see similarities in them, Manson being a little more sexual/aggressive about it.
And yet, here's a song I consider sort of 5ish of him. A rejection of his mother's religion, but a requiem for her at the same time,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23eZMdixAuk
INFP 4w5 sp/sx? |
Edited by - faultyideal on 29 Oct 2009 11:22:53 PM |
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2009 : 12:03:57 AM
|
quote:
Haha and just why not? It sounds interesting.
haha..You let me know when you post yours okay |
|
|
|
faultyideal
Member
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2009 : 01:47:47 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Scorpionical
quote:
Haha and just why not? It sounds interesting.
haha..You let me know when you post yours okay
The spirit is willing, but the old lady brain is telling me I'll get embarrassed lol.
Also
Tool is actually highly involved with the Enneagram (hint: look at Danny Carey, the drummer's, bass drum...)
I saw somewhere Maynard espousing very fourish principles, as if he knew what he was talking about, enneagramically(new word) speaking...
INFP 4w5 sp/sx? |
|
|
|
Scorpionical
Member
4596 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2009 : 01:57:57 AM
|
quote:
I saw somewhere Maynard espousing very fourish principles, as if he knew what he was talking about, enneagramically(new word) speaking...
My husband just reamed the world about feeling misunderstood and incapable..sigh.
So I'm wary of communication..hate the ass part but I guess I am too serious. I've decided JoL is not trolling and am full of regret..
Taste that LovesaidNo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWRDZwV8jGE |
|
|
|
faultyideal
Member
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2009 : 02:06:05 AM
|
this, to me, is rather fourish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hglVqACd1C8
four's self indulgence, as witnessed by an e5
maybe maynard was an e5 who witnessed a tragic e4 moment?
INFP 4w5 sp/sx? |
Edited by - faultyideal on 31 Oct 2009 02:14:36 AM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Example of a Very Healthy Four
