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Diane
Member
26 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 2:31:09 PM
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| I'm a 5w4 and have a lot of trouble socially. I feel people seem to either love or hate me. I'm interested in buddhism and try hard to be a good, loving, kind, compassionate person. I think an outsider would view me as relatively attractive with a "good life". My husband says people are jealous of me and that's why I have trouble finding good friends, or why I get negative responses from some people. But really I think there must be real reasons why people dislike a 5w4? Is there some sort of vibe a 5w4 gives off that repels others? |
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randy mizer
Member
67 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 2:57:36 PM
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A few thing I generally don't like:
their snooty, elitist effete point of views... maniacal jerks... a lot of them talk about authenticity yet seem to lack it at the same time. Hypocrites.
If that doesn't describe you, then I suppose your "healthy".
However, I get the distinct feeling none of this applies to you for some reason. |
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.ron4
Member
9126 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 4:36:04 PM
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TYPE 5
Average levels
Preoccupied
Impractical
Detached
Complexifying
Agitated
Antagonistic
Argumentative
Cynical
Pessimistic
Provocative
R&H
Ron
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Art_Skidmore
Member
13305 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 5:35:47 PM
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5x4s are into a few images they switch into from time to time....hardly noticed by themselves...lol.
5x4 may be unaware they really really like their image that talks the mask of others faces.
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manda7panda
Member
178 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 5:47:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diane
I'm a 5w4 and have a lot of trouble socially. I feel people seem to either love or hate me. I'm interested in buddhism and try hard to be a good, loving, kind, compassionate person. I think an outsider would view me as relatively attractive with a "good life". My husband says people are jealous of me and that's why I have trouble finding good friends, or why I get negative responses from some people. But really I think there must be real reasons why people dislike a 5w4? Is there some sort of vibe a 5w4 gives off that repels others?
Those who love you, what do they love about you? Sometimes the things that certain people dislike about us, can be the same things that those who love us, love about us. Not necessarily saying that's true in your case, but it might be worth looking at.
Are there observable commonalities among those who dislike you? e.g. certain types, certain preoccupations/dispositions etc. For example, if highly demonstrative and/or insecure types react negatively to you, it could be that they perceive you as "cold" or emotionally unresponsive, or don't have a sense of knowing where they stand with you. You might be quite compassionate on the inside, but if there's not "warmth" in your mannerisms (obviously this is not something that can be effectively faked, nor am I recommending that) then some people might not get to know you well enough to learn what is going on inside. If you're living in the U.S., the mainstream culture's emphasis on charisma might not be helping any. And frankly, some people are prejudiced against intelligent women - especially intelligent women who are not highly emotionally expressive. So these might be a few possibilities to consider.
2w1 - ENFP |
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.ron4
Member
9126 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 6:18:51 PM
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What probably bothers most others about 5s is their
"leaden rule";
"Make others feel helpless,incompetent,stupid,and incapable".
Ron
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yatzee
Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 6:59:35 PM
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Suspected 5w4 here Diane.
I haunt a different board where I have much the same effect as the one you are talking about. The most amazing outburst came from an outrageously demonstrative chick who says she is an INFP. She talked about a friend who could "see" through all of her personality defences and told her exactly what she was doing. She expressed fear that some people could see through the "rose fodder" that she was throwing around. Also, she expressed frustration that there were some people whose "rose fodder" she could never see through.
There is an element of "He, who accuses all, convicts one."
I have a lot of "pet enthusiasms" that I use to connect to other people, in either a humorous or educational way. I don't know whether the enthusiasms, or I do it, but few seem to be indifferent to me.
When I weigh in on a thread the discussion often stops at that post. Not from the devastating clout of my wisdom, I assure you! I do want feedback, but am not going to beg in my posts. As you are I am committed to a life of goodness and compassion from a totally different religious and philosophical background.
Perhaps the "good life" is viewed as hypocritical by hypocrites.
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 7:05:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diane
But really I think there must be real reasons why people dislike a 5w4? Is there some sort of vibe a 5w4 gives off that repels others?
The acute angularity of their 'architecture' is the problem.
********* / *
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Classi
Member
331 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 7:06:42 PM
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I know it's not the question you asked but I know a very well liked 5w4
He is secretary for a society at my university. He designs the society webpage and is very particular about how it should be done but noone minds that he doesn't delegate as noone else wants the responsibility.
Very quietly spoken, enfused with a wistful melancholy and sometimes condescending in the way he will lecture you on something intellectual, but it isn't annoying as he comes across more as a wise old grandad then a stuck up snob.
Very orderly, he has a refreshing way of talking about his life and routine that is completely without pretension. He will say things such as "I don't read books, they just make me tired". So there, not all fives like books  His life is orderly and he is refreshingly predictable and responsible.
He will talk about the shocking and bizarre as if it is mere table talk. You'll find he'll start a conversation about fetishism in the uni cafe at lunch. It's surprisingly not creepy as his curiousity underpins everything he says and often you'll think "Your just saying what everyone thinks but never says out loud anyway".
However, I will say the 5w4 celebrities I can think off are admired for their work and persona rather than their personalities. Tarantino is often a disappointment to those who meet him in real life. They expect a guy as cool as the films he makes and find "a geek" instead. Greta Garbo pretty much avoided her fans and was thought by many co-stars she filmed with to be "a snob". However, both are and were pretty damn well liked by the world for their artisitic achievements.
Garbo hasn't become the modern day poster girl like Audrey Hepburn (9w1), but I'd put that down to her films not being as popular as say Breakfast at Tiffanys. |
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Diane
Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 7:47:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by manda7panda
[quote]
Are there observable commonalities among those who dislike you? e.g. certain types, certain preoccupations/dispositions etc.
Yes, very often it is 7's. They seem to immediately not like me and I can almost never win them over. Other times I have problems with 3's, but not as severe. They more just seem to not acknowledge me. |
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hildegard
Member
20 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 8:32:17 PM
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I dislike how they pull away or close themselves off without warning. One friend, an sp/s_, had a tendency to leave parties I brought her to without even telling me because a sudden burst of melancholy made her feel she wasn't welcome. Another friend, an sx/sp, who once opened up to me and told me all his secrets, slowly and steadily stopped communicating with me entirely for no apparent reason.
When that happens, it's easy to feel judged, as if you didn't live up to whatever standard they had or that you weren't warm enough or affectionate enough or magnetic enough. It was selfish of them and sometimes cruel.
These were two of the smartest people I've ever been friends with. I consider myself pretty smart too, so I usually could keep up and I like being challenged anyway, but there were times when I felt they were unjustly dismissive of other people's intellect.
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9w1 sx/sp |
Edited by - hildegard on 17 Oct 2009 01:42:18 AM |
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enforest
Member
258 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 8:45:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
5x4s are into a few images they switch into from time to time....hardly noticed by themselves...lol.
5x4 may be unaware they really really like their image that talks the mask of others faces.
That talks the mask of others faces OR that talks to the mask of others faces?
If there was no accidental typo, what do you mean?
And these images they switch into, do you have any details of what they're like from your own observations? |
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montag
Member
1170 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 8:52:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enforest
If there was no accidental typo, what do you mean?
There was a typo. It should've read: "That talks the mask of others feces." |
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Art_Skidmore
Member
13305 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 9:39:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enforest
quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
5x4s are into a few images they switch into from time to time....hardly noticed by themselves...lol.
5x4 may be unaware they really really like their image that talks the mask of others faces.
That talks the mask of others faces OR that talks to the mask of others faces?
If there was no accidental typo, what do you mean?
i mean they rip the mask right off...then switch images.
And these images they switch into, do you have any details of what they're like from your own observations?
i have had the experience of chatting with such a 5...whose images are the work of an expert.
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Edited by - Art_Skidmore on 16 Oct 2009 9:53:35 PM |
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Art_Skidmore
Member
13305 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 9:52:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by montag
quote:
Originally posted by enforest
If there was no accidental typo, what do you mean?
There was a typo. It should've read: "That talks the mask of others feces."
now, now...momtag....what kinda face is that... |
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enforest
Member
258 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 10:01:04 PM
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Thanks Art.
quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
i mean they rip the mask right off...then switch images.
do you mean they become an intellectual bully for a few moments, wreak havoc, and then go back to their supposed unintrusive self?
I suppose I might not know what you mean about ripping the mask off others' faces. |
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Art_Skidmore
Member
13305 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 10:14:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enforest
Thanks Art.
quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
i mean they rip the mask right off...then switch images.
do you mean they become an intellectual bully for a few moments, wreak havoc, and then go back to their supposed unintrusive self?
nope...its more like a surgeons image cutting into a specific part of your person and keeping you unaware of the operation.
I suppose I might not know what you mean about ripping the mask off others' faces.
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Edited by - Art_Skidmore on 16 Oct 2009 10:16:19 PM |
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enforest
Member
258 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 10:31:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diane
I'm a 5w4 and have a lot of trouble socially. I feel people seem to either love or hate me. I'm interested in buddhism and try hard to be a good, loving, kind, compassionate person. I think an outsider would view me as relatively attractive with a "good life". My husband says people are jealous of me and that's why I have trouble finding good friends, or why I get negative responses from some people. But really I think there must be real reasons why people dislike a 5w4? Is there some sort of vibe a 5w4 gives off that repels others?
Diane, I don't think there's anything in particular that makes a 5w4 unsociable. In my case, I'm a sx5w4, and socializing is something I'm actually very good at. I'm actually quite skilled at making others feel comfortable and many people feel they can open up to me very easily.
Other than the moments where I tend to be rude, impatient and frustrated with people not meeting my standards, I think I also tend to be rather preoccupied with my own thought process. Sometimes, when interacting with someone, I'm too concerned with the theoretical model in my head to truly listen to what the other person is presenting. In a way, they don't seem all that interesting to me in that moment, and I sort of monopolize the conversation by forcing them to discuss my key interests with them (the worst is when I'm dealing with relationship issues, lol) or I just tune them out.
If you want people to have more positive responses towards you, then as a 5w4, I'd suggest being more attentive to what they have to say and contribute to your understanding of things. If it's hard to focus on others or to deal with small talk (I learned to love it, and now I do it quite artificially (but no one seems to notice, so shh!)), then try to get them to talk about something that they themselves are knowledgeable in but you're perhaps not.
I met an art history major once, and I kept the conversation interesting by getting her to explain the field to me. I knew next to nothing about it, and it never got boring since I was almost constantly being stimulated. (think of it as an interview!)
Anyway, it's a suggestion. I don't know your case very well, but this is what's been helping me feel more balanced and less anxious around people. |
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enforest
Member
258 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 10:51:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
quote:
Originally posted by enforest
Thanks Art.
quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
i mean they rip the mask right off...then switch images.
do you mean they become an intellectual bully for a few moments, wreak havoc, and then go back to their supposed unintrusive self?
nope...its more like a surgeons image cutting into a specific part of your person and keeping you unaware of the operation.
I suppose I might not know what you mean about ripping the mask off others' faces.
Is this how 5s try to "figure out" people? |
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4wants8
Member
2402 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 11:23:46 PM
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I have definitely seen in the 5w4 the intellectual arrogance and contemptuous derision for those less "intelligent and worthy" than the 5w4.
The sudden flashes of terribly displaced rage are even worse. They are relationship-enders. |
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goodmourning
Member
228 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 12:35:00 AM
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I don't want to prematurely judge myself as healthy. But around the few other 5's I've ever typed, it get's annoying to see the mirror of myself. The lack of the normal give and take in everyday conversation. And 5's so stuck in their inner world that they cannot adequately emphasize with others.
I almost drove myself crazy, going against the grain and learning to be practical, effective, and interested in the lives and doings of others.
But every type can be equally annoying in their own way with their particular antics. |
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Art_Skidmore
Member
13305 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 07:17:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by enforest
quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
quote:
Originally posted by enforest
Thanks Art.
quote:
Originally posted by Art_Skidmore
i mean they rip the mask right off...then switch images.
do you mean they become an intellectual bully for a few moments, wreak havoc, and then go back to their supposed unintrusive self?
nope...its more like a surgeons image cutting into a specific part of your person and keeping you unaware of the operation.
I suppose I might not know what you mean about ripping the mask off others' faces.
Is this how 5s try to "figure out" people?
an E5x4 uses an image cause its feeling its fear and desire toward its own thoughts...
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Diane
Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 10:21:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by enforest
In my case, I'm a sx5w4, and socializing is something I'm actually very good at. I'm actually quite skilled at making others feel comfortable and many people feel they can open up to me very easily.
If you want people to have more positive responses towards you, then as a 5w4, I'd suggest being more attentive to what they have to say and contribute to your understanding of things. If it's hard to focus on others or to deal with small talk (I learned to love it, and now I do it quite artificially (but no one seems to notice, so shh!)), then try to get them to talk about something that they themselves are knowledgeable in but you're perhaps not.
I met an art history major once, and I kept the conversation interesting by getting her to explain the field to me. I knew next to nothing about it, and it never got boring since I was almost constantly being stimulated. (think of it as an interview!)
This is interesting because this is what I have actually learned to do as well. And after these interactions it is these people who seem to love me, but strangely they know nothing of me because I barely spoke of myself. Which over time, I can see someone thinking I wear a mask, because I am never revealing myself, only mirroring the other person back to themselves. But in my defense there is no other way, because they never seem to ask about me or seem at all interested when I do speak of myself, so they never come to truly know me. But yet, these are the people that love me, probably because I am pretty much like a free counselor that allows them to talk incessantly about themselves.
I am more interested in the people who seem to show an instant dislike to me, before I have even spoken or before they even know anything of me. Which once they begin to learn, they seem to dislike me even more. In my daily life I want to be at peace with everyone and be on positive, or at least neutral ground. So this very much frustrates me that I can't figure out the problem these people have with me so that I could work on fixing it. |
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Diane
Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 12:22:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by skunk
Some of the deepest connections I ever made with another person were with intuitive Sevens.
I love their intelligence and their lack of defensiveness, their non-judgementalism, their ability to take people as they find them. And I love their love of life. Their interpersonal intuition can be unnerving though; I swear I've known 7w6s with eyes in the back of their head.
Funny, because I often see 7's to be shallow, flighty, unfocussed, materialistic, unsatisfied, uncentered, manic, overextended and unwilling to find calm. I see little depth to their character and when I do glimpse it for a moment, it is quickly swept away with more rambling, displaced manic energy. I see the image they present as well as their accomplishments, and I do understand why people enjoy them, but I can not help but see what is underneath all that. However this is of course just with the 7's I've encountered in my life.
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Diane
Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 12:43:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by skunk I get this too - and it's a very marked reaction. I get the feeling that it's often social Sixes, or thereabouts. They will immediately shun me. I think loners and misfits can be a target for their anxieties. What is most irking is that their fixation becomes projected onto others as some kind of moral imperative; like it's almost a crime to not belong.
Some women seem a bit spooked by me too - I think being heavily SP may have something to do with that. Accentuates the "coldness".
Yes --- This is very much it. It's like an instant judgment of me as something negative that gives me the feeling of being a loser/misfit/undesirable, not "cool", not worthy of their attention or even pleasantries. Which I want to know - how can they perceive this so quickly? What is it that I give off? Because as a woman, on outward appearances only, I probably appear like a 3. How is it they know to instantly react to me as 5? With barely any words exchanged? |
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goodmourning
Member
228 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2009 : 1:02:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Diane
quote:
Originally posted by enforest
In my case, I'm a sx5w4, and socializing is something I'm actually very good at. I'm actually quite skilled at making others feel comfortable and many people feel they can open up to me very easily.
I am more interested in the people who seem to show an instant dislike to me, before I have even spoken or before they even know anything of me. Which once they begin to learn, they seem to dislike me even more. In my daily life I want to be at peace with everyone and be on positive, or at least neutral ground. So this very much frustrates me that I can't figure out the problem these people have with me so that I could work on fixing it.
I can relate to both of these. When in the right moods I can also be great at small talk. I had to teach myself it, and keep on track of caring about the lives of others, but it was learnable. The latter quote sounds familiar. Almost in a 9ish way, I want everything going smoothly, and try to be everyone's friend. But more actively than a 9 supposedly is. This causes me to be well liked in my work. There have been a few neurotic 3's, 6's, 8's that I have not tried at all to be liked by. |
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Topic |
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what do people dislike about 5w4's?
