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.ron4
Member
9125 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 3:48:20 PM
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In 'Personality Types' R&H talk about the not so
unhealthy 9 disintegrating to 6 being more typical
than full disintegration.
Anyone attempting to reason with a 9 should read this part.
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 3:57:49 PM
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dfgray - I found your response to me to be somewhat boring, boring in the sense of being uninteresting to the point of tedium, not boring in the sense of being penetrating. (Much less did it manifest any creative virtuosity or intriquing psychological insight.) I have other things to do and can't be bothered responding to anything so utterly dull and uninspiring.
You are clearly impressed with the size of your balls. I suggest you grab your crotch, hoist energetically in an upward direction and robustly claim victory.
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 4:28:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
In 'Personality Types' R&H talk about the not so
unhealthy 9 disintegrating to 6 being more typical
than full disintegration.
'Full disintegration'?
[Stormy] |
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shakti
Member
USA
7845 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 4:41:25 PM
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| That was puzzling to me, as well, but I concluded that what .ron4 meant was that that disintegration to six was more likely than actually pushing the down button to head to lower levels of health. I'm curious what he has to say. |
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.ron4
Member
9125 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 5:00:40 PM
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stormy,
My view of disintegration is when disintegrated one
is not conscious of being so and if less unhealthy
returns to his normal level of health frequently.
Fully disintegrated or disintegrated type may or
may not return to his normal level and would take
more time to return or find his way back.
Maybe types are never fully disintegrated in that
we never change types for life. As we grow we become
less our type and more ourselves.
please correct or add to, thanks.
ron |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 5:24:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
My view of disintegration is when disintegrated one
is not conscious of being so and if less unhealthy
returns to his normal level of health frequently.
Fully disintegrated or disintegrated type may or
may not return to his normal level and would take
more time to return or find his way back.
Something like this:
"Probably what happens in most cases is that they [Unhealthy Nines] deteriorate into unhealthy states (denial, dissociation) after a crisis, but are able to bounce back to some degree of normal functioning. Their defenses are very powerful because they are so all-encompassing, and for better or worse, Nines are able to repress most traumas and go on living."
- Riso and Hudson, 'Personality Types', p.375
[Stormy] |
Edited by - Stormy on 25 Oct 2009 5:27:00 PM |
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.ron4
Member
9125 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 6:17:18 PM
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Stormy
If stress could be a crisis.)
Actually I was referring to ;
page-366, 9 goes to 6
Beginning at level 4, 9s under stress will begin to act
out some of the characteristics of average to unhealthy
6s. Average 9s are disengaging from the environment and
from their anxiety in order to maintain a peaceful equi-
librium within themselves. When events around them become
too stressful for this defense to work, they begin to
experience the full intensity or their anxiety and may
become reactive and insecure, like average 6s.
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 7:27:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
dfgray - I found your response to me to be somewhat boring, boring in the sense of being uninteresting to the point of tedium, not boring in the sense of being penetrating.
At first glance, your post appears as an adept psychological move. But subsequent readings don't hold up so well. For example, the problem with the above segment is in its over-emphasis. It makes your strategy and true emotions too evident. Three times, you've got the word "boring" - then there's "uninteresting" and "tedium" - and all of these in one sentence. You also started with "somewhat boring" and immediately switched an extreme of boring. Not good.
The biggest flaw, though, is in the last phrase. It doesn't make sense that a penetrating response would be boring. This seems to indicate that you were looking for an excuse to use the word 'boring' again. And the fact that this error slipped past you hints at the presence of more emotion than you would have wanted to reveal since the overall tonality of the post shows signs of an attempt at a nonchalant affect.
(Much less did it manifest any creative virtuosity or intriquing psychological insight.) I have other things to do and can't be bothered responding to anything so utterly dull and uninspiring.
Again, the lady is protesting a little too much. Remember this: It's always a shadow tell when someone uses absolutist words, like 'any', 'never' and 'always'. And the phrase "anything so utterly..." is another in the same category. Also, your use of the word "intriguing" (as a reflection back to my use of the word) is too apparent in its motive.
I will say this though: Overall, you've got solid potential.
You are clearly impressed with the size of your balls. I suggest you grab your crotch, hoist energetically in an upward direction and robustly claim victory.
The thing that impressed me the most about myself today was when I referred to ptypes as a "psychological accountant". 
********* / *
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Edited by - dfgray44 on 25 Oct 2009 7:28:57 PM |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 7:31:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
If stress could be a crisis.)
Actually I was referring to ;
page-366, 9 goes to 6
Beginning at level 4, 9s under stress will begin to act
out some of the characteristics of average to unhealthy
6s. Average 9s are disengaging from the environment and
from their anxiety in order to maintain a peaceful equi-
librium within themselves. When events around them become
too stressful for this defense to work, they begin to
experience the full intensity or their anxiety and may
become reactive and insecure, like average 6s.
That doesn't claim E9s are less likely to go to E6 (than other Types are to Disintegrate), though.
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
It doesn't make sense that a penetrating response would be boring.
It's a pun - 'to bore (into)' is a synonym of 'to penetrate'.
[Stormy] |
Edited by - Stormy on 25 Oct 2009 7:42:16 PM |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 7:49:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
It's a pun - 'to bore (into)' is a synonym of 'to penetrate'.
[Stormy]
Thank you Stormy. It's so boring, tedious and uninteresting that these things should have to be spelled out. (And yes...I did repeat these words purposefully. I doubt that my shadow was involved in any deep or penetrating fashion.) |
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.ron4
Member
9125 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 7:57:15 PM
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I think it claims that if the 9 isn't healthy
or in his comfort zone he is exhibiting 6 traits
when stressed ?
ron
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 7:59:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by .ron4
I think it claims that if the 9 isn't healthy
or in his comfort zone he is exhibiting 6 traits
when stressed ?
I think so - isn't 'out of comfort-zone' equivalent to 'stressed'?
[Stormy] |
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 8:00:04 PM
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| I'm not sure why it should be the case, but the type Nine's connection to Six seems to be stronger than the connection to the point of disintegration for other types. (I am not claiming that Nines are overall less healthy - just that they are more likely to pull from their disintegration point.) Maybe that's because fear is the absolute primary fallen emotion for all of us. Maybe we all sprang from type Six. We were born into fear with our first frantic breath, struggling for survival in a world which was suddenly cold, bright and empty of all of the meaning that we had come to know. |
Edited by - marie on 25 Oct 2009 8:04:41 PM |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
12541 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 8:13:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
Maybe that's because fear is the absolute primary fallen emotion for all of us. Maybe we all sprang from type Six. We were born into fear with our first frantic breath, struggling for survival in a world which was suddenly cold, bright and empty of all of the meaning that we had come to know.
I agree that fear is fundamental, although it's been remarked by several authors that E9 is the fundamental Type - Maitri, for example, describes (reiterated here extremely abridged) how disconnection from self at E9 leads to fearful insecurity about approaching these 'holes' in the self at E6, and corresponding activity to cover them over at E3, leading back to disconnection from the self.
[Stormy] |
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dfgray44
Member
USA
6546 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 8:15:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marie
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
It's a pun - 'to bore (into)' is a synonym of 'to penetrate'.
[Stormy]
Thank you Stormy. It's so boring, tedious and uninteresting that these things should have to be spelled out. (And yes...I did repeat these words purposefully...
That was one of my points - you feigned nonchalance while your post was too purposeful.
I doubt that my shadow was involved in any deep or penetrating fashion.)
Too late. Exposed.
********* / *
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 8:25:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
quote:
Originally posted by marie
Maybe that's because fear is the absolute primary fallen emotion for all of us. Maybe we all sprang from type Six. We were born into fear with our first frantic breath, struggling for survival in a world which was suddenly cold, bright and empty of all of the meaning that we had come to know.
I agree that fear is fundamental, although it's been remarked by several authors that E9 is the fundamental Type - Maitri, for example, describes (reiterated here extremely abridged) how disconnection from self at E9 leads to fearful insecurity about approaching these 'holes' in the self at E6, and corresponding activity to cover them over at E3, leading back to disconnection from the self.
[Stormy]
There is clearly something more basic about the primary types. It would seem to me that disconnection (at point Nine) would require a reason though, and that points to Six.
Type Nine has that very inviting place on the symbol though. If we take the symbol as indicative of a deep level of understanding, a view which has its appeal to me,...well, that points to Nine. I'm not sure I have a good story for that though. Unless we posit that disconnection is a necessary precondition for individuation, for the very existence in this mode of reality. Then "disconnection" would be prior to fear....logically if not temporally. I kind of like that actually. |
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carlos
Member
3565 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 8:42:30 PM
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my secret is revealed...
I AM THE SKY FATHER
and MY SWORD IS BIGGER THAN YOURS
Ambassador to the Savage Tribes |
Edited by - carlos on 25 Oct 2009 8:47:47 PM |
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.ron4
Member
9125 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 8:54:34 PM
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All types include adaptability , instinctually .
Our saving grace.
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marie
Member
4292 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 9:13:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by carlos
my secret is revealed...
I AM THE SKY FATHER
So, you're the one I have been trying to impress!
and MY SWORD IS BIGGER THAN YOURS
Ahem...well, I should hope so. (But you know...they do say that it's not the size but what you do with it that matters.)
Ambassador to the Savage Tribes
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enneathing
Member
Australia
518 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 9:20:53 PM
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| Yeah...5w4s...they're pretty cool. |
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the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 05:37:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by koolkatkuhner
quote:
Originally posted by the_eye
Gee. And I thought I was insane..
What I don't like about 5w4s: they're tetchy, overbearing creatures, when they're not overprotective with others (as 5s) they're tyrannical and insane. Sensitive to anything that might affect them, can become fatigued with life (like 4s so do 5s seemingly); have an appetite for violence and power but don't admit it as they often preach fair-mindedness and righteousness (like 1s), that might not respect themselves in return. Sometimes strong, weak and sensitive at other times (during which their sensitivity makes them hate suffering). Lucky to them in healthier cases they're energetic and original or claim to be like that.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht'
Who let you loose? 
I can't believe you slipped thru the school system. Must've been during the chaos in the early nineties.
True.
In my country, not too long ago, the government would have never let you roam free.
They actually didn't. But I'm still free and ok.
They used to lock young girls up for having minds of their own.
Our government sometimes kills them. Probably for not having minds of their own.
Though, I have to say, as a guy, I was [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]ing horrible for public education...and probably a bit insane myself.
I understand you perfectly.
'mich interessiert kein Gleichgewicht/ mir scheint die Sonne ins Gesicht' |
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the_eye
Member
Romania
4183 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 05:48:10 AM
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Oh, another thing about 5w4s that could be called dislikable: paranoia. For instance- James Angleton obsessed with KGB moles into the CIA.
For Dee - the board is full of 5w4s and some of them are 5w6s.
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Edited by - the_eye on 26 Oct 2009 06:17:42 AM |
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Sea Shell
Member
45 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 07:26:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
Since the thread is about "disliking 5w4s", I thought I'd bring in some actual dislike...just on a whim...crazy me. I, for one, appreciate my honesty.
PS- I'd actually prefer for my voice to have been only one of several who were expressing their honest dislike (though it's not accurate to say that I dislike 5w4s as a group). And at this point would prefer not to have the conversation stay on myself....believe it or not.
I appreciate your honesty.
You said you don't dislike 5w4s as a group. I assume there are certain characteristics that you dislike about 5w4s, but these characteristics are not possessed by all 5w4s.
If you are still in the mood after all these arguments, would you mind sharing what are the things that you honestly dislike about 5w4s?
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bear
Member
USA
4072 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 08:13:08 AM
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| I think what's underneath the sky father thing is not specific to marie, but to 5w4 in general, and sx 5w4 in particular... unconsciously knocking people off their game. It's a part of "confidence" - to force the other into a place of uncertainty keeps fear at bay and maintains a comfortable "i know you don't" self-image. It's definitely something that is disliked about us because we're constantly undermining the other in subtle ways, stealing their confidence. In carlos' case, apply what Naranjo said about sx 5s to finding the right teacher: passionate about the one person (usually someone they can't find). Search for absolute love and it's too hard for others to pass the test. Very easily disappointed. Looking to trust in another - the one that will be with you and for you no matter what, beyond the level of marriage vows. There's a need to undermine all that don't pass the test (and sometimes idealize those that aren't available). |
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awakening
Member
USA
1761 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2009 : 08:19:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by the_eye
Oh, another thing about 5w4s that could be called dislikable: paranoia. For instance- James Angleton obsessed with KGB moles into the CIA.
For Dee - the board is full of 5w4s and some of them are 5w6s.
Fwiw, 5w6s are more paranoid than w4s. |
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what do people dislike about 5w4's?
