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christabel
Member

United Kingdom
325 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2010 :  04:40:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit christabel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK, I just gotta know . . . what types are we talking about with Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler?

I'm guessing Scarlett might be a 3 and Rhett might be a 7 but I'm not all that sure of this, so I thought I'd throw it out and see what you all thought.

Melanie was a classic E2, but I'm also not that sure of Ashley Wilkes' type, so anyone who wants to have a go at that one can add it in!

What do you all think, and why?

E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei

Rory
Member

55 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2010 :  07:01:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit Rory's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi.Personally,I think that Scarlett was 3w4 and Rhett 8w7,Melanie classical 2w1 and Ashley propably 5w4.
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16705 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2010 :  10:33:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Why are you typing Ashley 5w4? Just curious.


We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
7w6 cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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christabel
Member

United Kingdom
325 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2010 :  3:42:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit christabel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not sure about Rhett. I had Scarlett down as a 3, and I could see an argument for a 4 Wing there (she didn't seem to have a 2 wing so much). As for Rhett . . . I wasn't sure whether he would be an 8w7 or a 7w8. I could see arguments there both ways. He definitely had moments of more high-minded idealism (like when he went to join the Confederate army for their last stand).

Ashley . . . I could see him as a 5, but no idea on the wing. I also thought he might be some type of 1, as he was fairly idealistic in some ways.

Hmmmm . . . this bears thinking about. Can you explain your thinking a bit, especially about Ashley and Rhett?

E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei

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4wants8
Member

3284 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2010 :  9:59:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit 4wants8's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh. Uhhh....

According to the book...

Scarlett - 3w2
Rhett - 8w7
Melanie - I honestly think that she is a 6! Heaping helpings of 1/2 qualities in there, and some 9, but - 6.
Ashley - 1w9

http://www.cracked.com/video_18156_a-trailer-every-academy-award-winning-movie-ever.html

Edited by - 4wants8 on 27 Apr 2010 10:02:59 PM
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christabel
Member

United Kingdom
325 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2010 :  05:03:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit christabel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi 4wants8

I'm having some trouble picturing Melly as a 6, so I'd be keen to hear more on why you reckon she might have been E6.

She did a lot of 2w1 things like defying propriety etc and taking Belle Watling's money when no one else would in thoes days etc. She also overlooked any negativity in others and spent a lot of time soothing them, so I'd be interested to hear more about your thinking there. I'm not saying she definitely isn't a 6, but I'm curious as to why you see her that way.

I could almost see her as a 9, but I reckon she was more 2 than 9. She didn't strike me as a 1 because they tend to be more rigorous than 2s and a real 1 would have had trouble approaching Belle Watling, even for a donation to "the Cause".

Rhett . . . 8w7 again. . . I'm beginning to believe this could be the case but I don't know many 8w7s so I'm trying to understand the difference between 8w7 and 7w8 still.

Scarlett I would have said was a 3w4 rather than a 3w2 but I'm not sure about that one either, either way. Ashley as a 1w9 I could also see a few arguments for actually. Then again . . . he knew that the war would not be successful and he wasn't so much into the "Cause" as thinking clearly on the matter and saying "Gentlemen, if Georgia fights, I'll fight with her but . . . " That whole "BUT" strikes me as not very 1-like because the usual 1s are gung-ho for whatever institution they believe in. "Onward Christian soldiers" etc. Ashley didn't go gung-ho for any particular belief system and, in fact, was something of romantic in the sense that he felt a melancholy loss of the world which he knew was disappearing, and he knew he would be out of place in the world which was replacing it. I would have put him at maybe a 5w4 because 5s tend to not want to get involved in social issues, maintain distance and can be afraid to feel things.

All this strikes me as Ashley being a 5w4 more than a 1w9. He intellectualized his feelings and tried to distance himself from what he felt for Scarlett as well. When he admired Scarlett for her passion for life and her strength and fearlessness of her emotions, it was because he was the opposite of her---the man who was afraid to feel and acknowledge his strong feelings, more detached, intellectual, able to see the big picture but private and sometimes unable to take a strong stand and lead.

Just my two cents, though, so feel free to disagree!



E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei

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4wants8
Member

3284 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2010 :  10:28:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit 4wants8's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by christabel

Hi 4wants8

I'm having some trouble picturing Melly as a 6, so I'd be keen to hear more on why you reckon she might have been E6.

She did a lot of 2w1 things like defying propriety etc and taking Belle Watling's money when no one else would in thoes days etc. She also overlooked any negativity in others and spent a lot of time soothing them, so I'd be interested to hear more about your thinking there. I'm not saying she definitely isn't a 6, but I'm curious as to why you see her that way.

I could almost see her as a 9, but I reckon she was more 2 than 9. She didn't strike me as a 1 because they tend to be more rigorous than 2s and a real 1 would have had trouble approaching Belle Watling, even for a donation to "the Cause".

Rhett . . . 8w7 again. . . I'm beginning to believe this could be the case but I don't know many 8w7s so I'm trying to understand the difference between 8w7 and 7w8 still.

Scarlett I would have said was a 3w4 rather than a 3w2 but I'm not sure about that one either, either way. Ashley as a 1w9 I could also see a few arguments for actually. Then again . . . he knew that the war would not be successful and he wasn't so much into the "Cause" as thinking clearly on the matter and saying "Gentlemen, if Georgia fights, I'll fight with her but . . . " That whole "BUT" strikes me as not very 1-like because the usual 1s are gung-ho for whatever institution they believe in. "Onward Christian soldiers" etc. Ashley didn't go gung-ho for any particular belief system and, in fact, was something of romantic in the sense that he felt a melancholy loss of the world which he knew was disappearing, and he knew he would be out of place in the world which was replacing it. I would have put him at maybe a 5w4 because 5s tend to not want to get involved in social issues, maintain distance and can be afraid to feel things.

All this strikes me as Ashley being a 5w4 more than a 1w9. He intellectualized his feelings and tried to distance himself from what he felt for Scarlett as well. When he admired Scarlett for her passion for life and her strength and fearlessness of her emotions, it was because he was the opposite of her---the man who was afraid to feel and acknowledge his strong feelings, more detached, intellectual, able to see the big picture but private and sometimes unable to take a strong stand and lead.

Just my two cents, though, so feel free to disagree!



E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei





Um, in a real rush, but - whenever I think of Melanie, I think of her fitting up her bedroom as a "shrine" to her brother and father who fell in war, and her husband. There's all that "loyalty" - like, really insane loyalty to Ashley and her belief in his being second only to God, and her tenacity in protecting Scarlett when the Scarlett-Ashley scandal breaks loose during Reconstruction. "Love me love my dog!" It breaks my heart when Melanie throws India out of her home.

But the film types are different - in the film, Scarlett is 3w4 and Melanie is 2w1.

http://www.cracked.com/video_18156_a-trailer-every-academy-award-winning-movie-ever.html
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The_Weatherman
Member

257 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  11:14:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit The_Weatherman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I see Scarlett as a clear 4w3. Very emotional and dramatic. Not a 3.

5w4 sx/so/sp
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christabel
Member

United Kingdom
325 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  11:46:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit christabel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting, weatherman, because Scarlett was very image and achievement conscious, but at the same time she also had a lot of drama to her and didn't deal at all well with rejection. It's interesting since she had both 3 and 4 qualities, but it's hard to define the "mix" exactly.

In the film she was very competitive (with her sisters over men, with other women over image at the ball etc). That's why I put her as a 3 first, but I can see a 4w3 argument too.

E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei

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Gontxu
Member

Argentina
565 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  11:47:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit Gontxu's Homepage  Reply with Quote
IMO, Scarlett is a clear example of an unhealthy Histrionic Personality. If you take the DSM IV, she fits almost all the characteristics.
In the Enneagram of pathologies, the Histrionic Personality equates the Type 2.
She´s a pretty unhealthy Sexual Two,(with a heavy 3 wing) IMO. Naranjo, on his book ¨Transformation thru Insight¨ depicts her as a Sexual Two as well.But on the other hand, in the same book he depicts Julius Caesar, Alexander The Great, Napoleon & Queen Cleopatra as Twos...and no other teacher agrees with these characters (except for Cleopatra, I guess).
I guess she´s TOO INTENSE to be a Three...
-Rhett is an 8. Not sure about the subtype.
-Melanie, a 9 (And here we go with the ¨gentle doormat Two¨ again...)

No clue about Ashley. The character didn´t make quite an impression on me.He was kind of a wimp.

GONTXU

Sexual 3/7/1
ENFJ

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christabel
Member

United Kingdom
325 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2010 :  1:56:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit christabel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gontxu

IMO, Scarlett is a clear example of an unhealthy Histrionic Personality. If you take the DSM IV, she fits almost all the characteristics.
In the Enneagram of pathologies, the Histrionic Personality equates the Type 2.
She´s a pretty unhealthy Sexual Two,(with a heavy 3 wing) IMO. Naranjo, on his book ¨Transformation thru Insight¨ depicts her as a Sexual Two as well.But on the other hand, in the same book he depicts Julius Caesar, Alexander The Great, Napoleon & Queen Cleopatra as Twos...and no other teacher agrees with these characters (except for Cleopatra, I guess).
I guess she´s TOO INTENSE to be a Three...
-Rhett is an 8. Not sure about the subtype.
-Melanie, a 9 (And here we go with the ¨gentle doormat Two¨ again...)

No clue about Ashley. The character didn´t make quite an impression on me.He was kind of a wimp.

GONTXU

Sexual 3/7/1
ENFJ





OK . . . I could see her as a possible 2 with a HEAVY 3 wing, but she would have to be REALLY unhealthy. She was highly manipulative but really 2s only get like that if they are really unhealthy whereas other types can get like that when they are more on the "average" levels.

I definitely am suspicious of that book, since there is no way I would have classed me (and the other typical 2s I know) in with Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar etc. I mean, I'm sure there are a few 2 leaders out there somewhere like Tony Blair ---classic Messiah complex there, very keen to blend in and had chameleon tendencies to smooth things over, such as saying his favourite dish was "fish and chips" in the Northern part of the country while in the South he was quoted as saying it was "Penne arrabbiata" or something along those lines. VERY 2-ish. But conquering hero types? Well . . . I have more trouble seeing that side of 2s---2s as generals? Maybe, but . . . ???


Mostly Tony was a bit of a chameleon to merge better with people though, and I don't see Scarlett as ever having merged deliberately with anyone. She manipulated people, but that whole "Oh, tell me all your problems! I just want to help and be as close as I can to you so we can solve them together" stuff just was not Scarlett at all.

Manipulative, sure, sometimes when 2s are unhealthy, but sometimes Scarlett was like that when things were going well. Also, she was by far a very disinterested mother and even the most unhealthy 2 usually makes a pretty big effort where her own kids are concerned, even in those days when nannies were the norm. More like Melanie did with hers, even risking her own life to have another baby.

I still like the idea of Ashley as a 5 though. Intellectual, dreamer, detached, not quite part of the world he was watching get swept away. Rhett I'm beginning to see as an 8w7 a bit more, although a few of his characteristics puzzle me still because they don't fit completely with the 8s I've met. For one thing, he absolutely adored his daughter and most of the 8s I've met have been good parents in the sense of "good providers" for their kids, but not exactly close emotionally to them. At least, maybe I'm biased because my dad was an 8 but he was a very unhealthy one and so not close to us at all as far as "daily" stuff went . . . what we thought about, what we wanted to be when we grew up, what stuff we liked to eat and drink. . . he left most of that to my mum whereas Rhett was like that with Bonnie---very "hands=on" as a dad.

Just a few more thoughts both ways to think about. I'm wondering about the histrionic 2 thing because . . well . . I fit the histrionic 2 profile when I'm very unhealthy and although I can be very difficult at those times, I wouldn't say I was acting quite like Scarlett even then. For one thing, she never sought Rhett's love and while she accepted love from people, she didn't really seem to need it. I mean, she didn't SEEK it. She used it, it was flattering for her, but she didn't seem to have a deep-seated need to be loved so much as simply admired.

Also, even her fixation on Ashley turned into something more like a deep desire to acquire him and she became fairly competitive with Melanie, making him a scarf at Christmas when Melanie made him a tunic.

This may just be my reading of it though, so keep the ideas coming in! Thanks!

E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei


Edited by - christabel on 30 Apr 2010 1:58:23 PM
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The_Weatherman
Member

257 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2010 :  07:29:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit The_Weatherman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi christabel,

the real life 4w3s (especially the sx first ones) I know are strongly competitive. It's almost a core trait of the sx 4. Also, they are very achievement oriented. When I saw the movie the first time I thought Scarlett is very similar to my ex 4w3 sx/sp girlfriend...

I see Rhett as a soc/sx 8w7.

5w4 sx/so/sp
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christabel
Member

United Kingdom
325 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2010 :  1:51:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit christabel's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey there, weatherman!

Since you're a 5w4, what do you make of Ashley? I mean, is he something like your type? What do you think?

E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei

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The_Weatherman
Member

257 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2010 :  3:50:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit The_Weatherman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi christabel,

I am not so sure about Ashley. He doesn't send out that strong type vibrations. He could certainly be a 5w4...

Another question. I see Jurij Zhivago in "Dr. Zhivago" as a 5w4 (sx/soc). Does anyone agree?

quote:
Originally posted by christabel

Hey there, weatherman!

Since you're a 5w4, what do you make of Ashley? I mean, is he something like your type? What do you think?

E2, so/sx/sp

"In order to be effective truth must penetrate like an arrow - and that is likely to hurt." 'Posthumous Pieces' by Wei Wu Wei





5w4 sx/so/sp
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DRAGON8
Member

293 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2010 :  03:22:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit DRAGON8's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Weatherman

I see Scarlett as a clear 4w3. Very emotional and dramatic. Not a 3.

5w4 sx/so/sp



Vivien Leigh was a 4. That would flavor the character of Scarlett. She does seem like either the 4w3 or 3w4.
In the movie, Rhett seemed like a self pres 7w8. Ashley was either the soc 9 or 4. He was so passive. Mammy was played like a self pres 8w9. Melanie was the social 9 or 2. Scarlett's maid. Prissy? was the 6.
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16705 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2010 :  09:44:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Weatherman

I see Scarlett as a clear 4w3. Very emotional and dramatic. Not a 3.


Being "emotional and dramatic" does NOT make someone a 4.




We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
7w6 cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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