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dusty
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3718 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2010 :  3:17:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
9w1/1w9- The Holy
1w2/2w1- The Sacrifice
2w3/3w2- The Luminary
3w4/4w3- The Elect
4w5/5w4- The Other
5w6/6w5- The Seer
6w7/7w6- The Innocent
7w8/8w7- The Agent
8w9/9w8- The Ancient

4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9

dusty
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3718 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2010 :  5:22:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
yeah anyways archetypes are fun. the 2/3 was difficult but i think everything else is pretty spot on. suggestions would be welcomed.

4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9
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Stormy
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16347 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2010 :  5:38:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dusty

9w1/1w9- The Holy
1w2/2w1- The Sacrifice
2w3/3w2- The Luminary
3w4/4w3- The Elect
4w5/5w4- The Other
5w6/6w5- The Seer
6w7/7w6- The Innocent
7w8/8w7- The Agent
8w9/9w8- The Ancient


I'd swap the first two.

[Stormy]
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Invicta
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USA
6278 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2010 :  5:46:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Invicta's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I was impressed with these, good work.
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dusty
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3718 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2010 :  9:40:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Stormy, I don't see sacrifice as being more nineish than twoish. Why would you switch those two?

4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9
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shakti
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USA
11081 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2010 :  12:21:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit shakti's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Definitely a fresh take... thanks for posting!
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Stormy
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16347 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2010 :  04:54:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dusty

Stormy, I don't see sacrifice as being more nineish than twoish. Why would you switch those two?


E2s have more issues with self-righteousness and egocentricity, whereas E9s have more issues with self-neglect and being over-accommodating.

[Stormy]
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Saj
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16 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2010 :  08:42:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit Saj's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I like Luminary for 2/3 and Seer for 5/6.

9w1/1w9- Idealistic
1w2/2w1- Obedient
2w3/3w2- Charming
3w4/4w3- Elegant
4w5/5w4- Mysterious
5w6/6w5 Rational
6w7/7w6- Playful
7w8/8w7- Unrestrained
8w9/9w8- Earthy
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dusty
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3718 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2010 :  1:36:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My intent was to have these religious/spiritual in nature. The idea being that each originates in the primal and/or divine. Some are more obvious (1/9, 1/2, 5/6). The Luminary (one that emits light, celestial body), The Elect (God's chosen people), The Agent (the catalyst, the mover) might be less obvious. I don't know how self-evident this is so I thought I would explain.

4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9
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Pipistrelle
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519 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2010 :  9:09:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Pipistrelle's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think that may be the first one of these kinds of lists that I've liked.
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enneathing
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4666 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2010 :  10:17:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit enneathing's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure about this to be honest. Even though these types are in the 'same nook', other factors like stacking can make them very different, even in terms of 'archetypes'. imo, wings are the least important component of type. I see 4w3/4w5 as more similar at a fundamental level than 4w5/5w4 - however the latter may be more similar 'archetypally' - that is, in terms of the role they play on a superficial level.
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dusty
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3718 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2010 :  3:26:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing

I'm not sure about this to be honest. Even though these types are in the 'same nook', other factors like stacking can make them very different, even in terms of 'archetypes'. imo, wings are the least important component of type. I see 4w3/4w5 as more similar at a fundamental level than 4w5/5w4 - however the latter may be more similar 'archetypally' - that is, in terms of the role they play on a superficial level.

I see your point, I just mean that 7w8 and 8w7 have a certain something in common. A shared ancestor.

4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9
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Zapperbazzer
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1478 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2010 :  3:41:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Zapperbazzer's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dusty

The Elect (God's chosen people)
4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9



I'm familiar with Caruth's trauma theory where she theorises that truama's effects on the mind in which tragedies leave victims questioning why it was they survived and forever returning to the traumatic event in nightmares causes us to seek meaning in tragic events to leave them behind and move on. This meaning can take the form of believing oneself to be "chosen" - that is, spared by fate for a specific reason.
This is similiar to the enneagram's teaching that fours find meaning in suffering in order to transcend it. Very interesting that you thought of the idea of choseness in relation to 4w3.
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dfgray44
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USA
11897 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2010 :  6:09:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit dfgray44's Homepage  Reply with Quote
9w1/1w9- The Idea
1w2/2w1- The Humanitarian
2w3/3w2- The Golden
3w4/4w3- The Refined
4w5/5w4- The Fracture
5w6/6w5- The Specialist
6w7/7w6- The Ricochet
7w8/8w7- The Antagonist
8w9/9w8- The Stronghold



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enneathing
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4666 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  03:18:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit enneathing's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
9w1/1w9- The Idea
1w2/2w1- The Humanitarian
2w3/3w2- The Golden
3w4/4w3- The Refined
4w5/5w4- The Fracture
5w6/6w5- The Specialist
6w7/7w6- The Ricochet
7w8/8w7- The Antagonist
8w9/9w8- The Stronghold


That's a good list... except I don't see 7w8 as particularly antagonistic and I don't get 'idea' for 1w9.
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shakti
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USA
11081 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  05:59:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit shakti's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dusty

My intent was to have these religious/spiritual in nature. The idea being that each originates in the primal and/or divine. Some are more obvious (1/9, 1/2, 5/6). The Luminary (one that emits light, celestial body), The Elect (God's chosen people), The Agent (the catalyst, the mover) might be less obvious. I don't know how self-evident this is so I thought I would explain.




Thanks for clarifying. I wondered about elect and agent, but the rest seemed to be clear.



Inspired by this thread, I searched for some correlations and I happened to come across an article by David Hey that speaks of the Enneagram and also addresses some spiritual aspects. It draws on some of Faisal's teachings (a co-creator of the Diamond Approach) related to the Enneagram. In case it's of interest to anyone:
http://www.davidhey.com/eng/art_map_real_you.htm

From the article:
Ego activity is like...attempting to cover the whole earth with leather instead of wearing shoes.

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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  07:37:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
5w6/6w5- The Specialist

totally doesn't work for me, and odd timing, i was thinking today about how i know a reasonable amount about a lot but specialize in nothing.....the jack of all trades was viewed dimly in my formative years, so i carry some guilt about being like this.

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...
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Stormy
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16347 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  07:41:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dnimon

5w6/6w5- The Specialist

totally doesn't work for me, and odd timing, i was thinking today about how i know a reasonable amount about a lot but specialize in nothing.....the jack of all trades was viewed dimly in my formative years, so i carry some guilt about being like this.


And "The Seer"?

[Stormy]
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  09:11:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
lol...well now that's just pandering to my ego...I'd like to see myself as the seer but then I'd like to see myself as a genius as well.....perhaps closer than specialist though.......I see my core quality as "the critic" fwiw

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...
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dfgray44
Member

USA
11897 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  10:51:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit dfgray44's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by enneathing

quote:
9w1/1w9- The Idea
1w2/2w1- The Humanitarian
2w3/3w2- The Golden
3w4/4w3- The Refined
4w5/5w4- The Fracture
5w6/6w5- The Specialist
6w7/7w6- The Ricochet
7w8/8w7- The Antagonist
8w9/9w8- The Stronghold


That's a good list... except I don't see 7w8 as particularly antagonistic and I don't get 'idea' for 1w9.


All the 7w8s I can think of have an antagonistic quality. Looking at a few famous 7w8s - Howard Stern, Naomi Campbell, Simon Cowell, Gordon Ramsey, Boy George, Charles Barkley, John McEnroe, Joan Rivers - conflict is a form of entertainment for them. Some 7w8s aren't known for their outright conflicts with others but as cultural antagonists in terms of how they live their lives; Jack Nicholson, for example, poses a moral threat (to some) as a living essence of hedonism.

As for 1w9 and 'the idea', I type Thomas Jefferson, George Will, William F. Buckley and Noam Chomsky as 1w9s - people whose life stories are about service to abstractions. Abstraction is the key with 1w9 and 9w1 - there's a quality that has to do with 'not touching the earth'. As in the R&H description, 1w9, as compared to 1w2, doesn't like to get his hands dirty with the day-to-day implementation of his beloved ideas/ideals, and 9w1 naturally veers off into space (imaginary worlds) as a comfort-seeking mechanism.

The other word that comes up for 1w9/9w1 is 'wooden'...i.e.- there's something of them that feels related to Nature (wood), yet a dignified stiffness makes it difficult to interact with them in a personally-revealing way. It can seem like they've, long ago, dried up - it's hard to find 'the juice' - the water of vivaciousness and emotional to-and-fro. Both types have reason to avoid emotion, and since Universalist Abstraction is their superego's ruling king, they attempt to raise themselves above the low-lying fluids of 'the personal'. This rejection of water renders a piece of drift wood, unrelated (un-rooted) to the forest of humanity. By jettisoning their water weight they end up as an idea floating above the earth.

Of course, behind closed doors you might end up with the occasional flash-flood out of nowhere. :)




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dfgray44
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USA
11897 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  11:03:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit dfgray44's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dnimon

5w6/6w5- The Specialist

totally doesn't work for me, and odd timing, i was thinking today about how i know a reasonable amount about a lot but specialize in nothing.....the jack of all trades was viewed dimly in my formative years, so i carry some guilt about being like this.

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...


Unfortunately, we're not allowed to talk about your so/sx stacking as a factual reality, and how this affects the ability to specialize. Nonetheless, 'study' appears as an obvious element.

There's a seemingly ambivalent interplay here (with 5w6/6w5) between willful independence-of-thought and deep immersion in what's already been discovered on a given subject.



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dusty
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3718 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  1:48:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by dusty

Stormy, I don't see sacrifice as being more nineish than twoish. Why would you switch those two?


E2s have more issues with self-righteousness and egocentricity, whereas E9s have more issues with self-neglect and being over-accommodating.

[Stormy]

I mean sacrifice born out of love and nobility and holiness born out of purity of heart.

4w5 sp/sx 4-5-9
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sunny
Member

USA
11530 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  1:59:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit sunny's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A big difference between 2s and 9s might be energy level...9s get tired and need to go away/recover...2s have more drive generally.


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Stormy
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16347 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2010 :  2:25:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dusty

quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by dusty

Stormy, I don't see sacrifice as being more nineish than twoish. Why would you switch those two?


E2s have more issues with self-righteousness and egocentricity, whereas E9s have more issues with self-neglect and being over-accommodating.


I mean sacrifice born out of love and nobility and holiness born out of purity of heart.


Those aren't Type specific. I do think "The Holy Idea" fits for 9w1/1w9, though, and "The Humanitarian Sacrifice" for 1w2/2w1.

[Stormy]
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 12 Jul 2010 :  07:35:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't mind the so/sx/sp pov doctor...all i said is that these are close in degree for me.

FWIW...the way it works for me is to work through a concept or exciting conceptual project or interesting mystery without reference to any one else's views or literature...esp literature...if i get stuck somewhere...I seek the answer outside of myself to that specific point averting my eyes from anything else.

I'm almost OCD about it actually; I think an early experience of what my father said to me as a young boy turned things in me. "If you learn to paint in formal classes..you will inevitably paint ""like your teacher", the composition might be yours but the lines and strokes will belong to your teacher."

If find sometimes that If I do research first influences my thinking...people say this or that can't be done...I am convinced by their narrative and don't bother to try; at least not with the same emotional interest and sense of adventure.

I like to discover, I like to learn ...but I don't like to be told what is and isn't true or right or possible, for me...I learn by doing, hands hearts or minds on....and i love learning this way


"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...
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