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Kellay
Member

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2010 :  11:03:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Kellay's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Which enneagram type do you think is the rarest and which do you believe to be the most common in general? And which is the rarest and most common in the USA?
Thanks!

shakti
Member

USA
11104 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2010 :  11:42:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit shakti's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't believe studies have been done on this, but I've heard that the sx/soc stack is somehow rare and that there are more people who are 3, 6, 9 than 2, 4, 1, 7, 5, 8. The former set somehow representing that aspect of our personality that is in more direct relationship to shared reality.

The self perception of being rare, special, unique, of course, falls in the 4 terrain.
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  01:50:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree, looking at the teypes system realistically..... as a construct...... fear, image and insecurity are the three most defining facets of human behavior...it could be said that the better people know themselves, the more 3,6,9's there will be........the other etypes could from a certain point of view be seen as( wing types) or subsets of these three.

It would be better to arrange etypes into these combinations

types 3w2, 3w4, 6w5, 6w7, 9w8, 9w1.

people in general don't like to confront death, fear, insecurity and their need for validation...or to dwell on these, as we see ourselves more clearly I think we will all come to see ourselves as either 3,6,9's

Actually first and foremost we are all sixes since fear and the need for validation are subsets of insecurity.



"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  01:58:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's a shame that the geography of this system exists as a dogma rather than malleable model....the ideas of e6 should be attributed to number 9...those of e9 should be attributed to point 3........and those ideas of e3 which are the weakest since they actually belong (i suspect to a subset of a subset of a subset of insecurity.

that is......... they are less fundamental than fear and insecurity.

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  03:34:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
exactly..and they will not........ because the system would fall down if they attempted to do so.........

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...
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dfgray44
Member

USA
12090 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  10:13:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit dfgray44's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dnimon



Actually first and foremost we are all sixes since fear and the need for validation are subsets of insecurity.


All the etypes can be defined by their fears and insecurities. Even a cursory glance at the type descriptions should have informed you of that. For some reason, it's important that you zero-in on being the socially shameful one...i.e.- the type that is afraid.

In an enneagram/archetype conversation, yes, we're all existential sixes....arranging things in polarities, demonizing 'other', having an ambivalent relationship to what is perceived as 'higher'.



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enforest
Member

2129 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  2:44:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit enforest's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Kellay, I thought you had already made a thread like this in the past.

Am I mistaken?
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relicquery
Member

1598 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  3:42:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit relicquery's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by enforest


Kellay, I thought you had already made a thread like this in the past.

Am I mistaken?



Yes, with variations of the theme.

Edited by - relicquery on 20 Sep 2010 3:53:58 PM
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Boss
Member

1736 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  3:56:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Boss's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shakti

I don't believe studies have been done on this, but I've heard that the sx/soc stack is somehow rare and that there are more people who are 3, 6, 9 than 2, 4, 1, 7, 5, 8. The former set somehow representing that aspect of our personality that is in more direct relationship to shared reality.

The self perception of being rare, special, unique, of course, falls in the 4 terrain.



Agreed.
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enforest
Member

2129 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  9:01:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit enforest's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Haha, thanks Relicquery.

I knew I wasn't crazy.
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  9:05:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44

quote:
Originally posted by dnimon



Actually first and foremost we are all sixes since fear and the need for validation are subsets of insecurity.


All the etypes can be defined by their fears and insecurities. Even a cursory glance at the type descriptions should have informed you of that.

you don't say....

For some reason, it's important that you zero-in on being the socially shameful one...i.e.- the type that is afraid.

off the beaten track again doctor...who knows where you pull these convictions from...imagination masquerading as intuition?


In an enneagram/archetype conversation, yes, we're all existential sixes....arranging things in polarities, demonizing 'other', having an ambivalent relationship to what is perceived as 'higher'.

this is closer to my point.........there are weights given to different types..insecurity is highly weighted in the six.........so the all"" statements are deceptive doctor








"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...

Edited by - dnimon on 20 Sep 2010 11:42:11 PM
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blackLight
Member

USA
6378 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  9:48:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit blackLight's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dnimon

exactly..and they will not........ because the system would fall down if they attempted to do so.........
You are persistent, d. If I wasn't lazy, I'd try writing some up right now. The system would not fall apart. The two ideas are not really equivalent anyway (basic fear of each type vs existential fear/doubt/uncertainty at point 6). The basic fear is closer conceptually to the enneagram of avoidances.

I agree that sx/so seems to be pretty rare and there do seem to be more inner triangle than rim types.
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2010 :  11:25:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm sure you and others could try and compile such lists Bear, the problem would be that there would be even less consensus of agreement about them and this would only further diminish the reliability of the system.

The individual "always" represents the collective, and vice versa....the premise, parameters and foundation for type is mapped in the individual; existential insecurity, for instance, applies to the collective........not to type 6 more or less especially; it is played out differently from type to type....and i for one would be intereted in (a) whether you agree with me on this point......and (b) to read any ones attempts to map the dynamic of this through the etypes...........and or (c) present supporting literature.

With both agree on the reality of type...lets see how closely we agree on the principles of type.

The doctor for instance expressed mystical wonder about the poetry of triads as a validating feature of etypes....and yet i explained all this in the three laws of triads on a thread six months ago, which he either did not take seriously or could not understand...but these laws apply to that system of type i have attempted to outline a few times before and depend on features not specific to etypes at all

you have a position...you put it forward persistently.......so do I...nothing wrong with that.

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...

Edited by - dnimon on 20 Sep 2010 11:43:29 PM
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Kellay
Member

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  12:22:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kellay's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by relicquery

quote:
Originally posted by enforest


Kellay, I thought you had already made a thread like this in the past.

Am I mistaken?



Yes, with variations of the theme.



Yeah, I couldn't find them. This was when the "search" bar was still being slow (I think it's better now). Thanks for finding them for me.
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Kellay
Member

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  12:29:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Kellay's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You guys say that 9s are more common than many other E-Types; I really haven't come across many Nines in my life!

I met one though, who fit the bill entirely. But, other than him, "peacemakers" seem hard to come by in southwest Michigan.

Have many of you come across a bunch of nines??
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Oneness
Member

Australia
418 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  07:27:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Oneness's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I previously asked about the most common types. According to the stats I found, the most common types were usually either 9 and/or 1. There are many issues with type tests, but I think the main issue is getting enough people to participate in a study for the results to be meaningful.


  istj 1
_______________________________________________________________
'We live by our imagination, our admirations, and our sentiments' - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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blackLight
Member

USA
6378 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  08:09:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit blackLight's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't think any collections of tests would reveal the population thing, as any group of people likely to be tested are already not a random sampling of the population. The best way to see it is to spend some time in a city park, or at a train station or airport observing. If you don't see any 9s, then it's likely you don't know how to recognize them.

quote:
Originally posted by dnimon

I'm sure you and others could try and compile such lists Bear, the problem would be that there would be even less consensus of agreement about them and this would only further diminish the reliability of the system.

According to you, because you seem to seek something solid in the answer. But not for everyone - each list is an expansion of understanding, an opportunity to explore, not an attempt to neatly file.

The individual "always" represents the collective, and vice versa....the premise, parameters and foundation for type is mapped in the individual; existential insecurity, for instance, applies to the collective........not to type 6 more or less especially; it is played out differently from type to type....and i for one would be intereted in (a) whether you agree with me on this point......
yes

and (b) to read any ones attempts to map the dynamic of this through the etypes...........

That's not necessary. We all have fear, we all have existential fear, it's not really different from person to person. It's been said many times: we have all the types within us. What varies is the degree to which it runs our engine or how we might react to it (deny, fight back, accept, obsess, et al).

The doctor for instance expressed mystical wonder about the poetry of triads as a validating feature of etypes....and yet i explained all this in the three laws of triads on a thread six months ago, which he either did not take seriously or could not understand...but these laws apply to that system of type i have attempted to outline a few times before and depend on features not specific to etypes at all
None of us ever seem to get to a point where we grok what you're talking about. IMO that's either because of your presentation style, or the content. You've had some captive audiences of fairly smart people w/o lightbulbs turning on... so I can't comment on this.

you have a position...you put it forward persistently.......so do I...nothing wrong with that.
Indeed.
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Veiled One
Member

5623 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  08:38:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Veiled One's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't even think airports are the best random sampling environment. It will represent a population that travels more than average, I think. Also extroverted types might potentially be more out-and-about than introverted types.

Also I recalled the theory that sx and soc goes up in major cities, and sp/soc increases as we slowly spread into the suburbs and the countryside. If cities already contain more sp/soc than other stackings I think it's even more the case away from them.

However I agree that it is possibly the best sampling methods available, provided that one is an expert on typing-by-vibe-only. Vibes is best told once people open their mouths though.

8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
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Veiled One
Member

5623 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  08:49:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Veiled One's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The most numerous type? Six, no contest. True I am often in scientific environments (sixvilles) but I have observed the same in pretty much everywhere else too, including the arts. The greatest difference between scientific and artistic sixes on average is the MB T/F dimension and the strength of the sx instinct.

Scientific Sixes could often be NT. If one goes to, say, the military or the business world, then the S Sixes come to the fore as the overwhelming majority.

Nine is a distant second ime.

8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2010 :  8:59:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
and (b) to read any ones attempts to map the dynamic of this through the etypes...........

That's not necessary. We all have fear, we all have existential fear, it's not really different from person to person. It's been said many times: we have all the types within us. What varies is the degree to which it runs our engine or how we might react to it (deny, fight back, accept, obsess, et al).

The idea was put about the 9 different shames...angers etc and really, type differences around all "in common" behavioral manifestations...the remark you make above italicized and underlined in blue is to be questioned because it is in fact experienced entirely differently from one type to another; the second italicized part of your reply is quite incorrect...degree has nothing to do with it whatsover...and this is one of the worst idea/mistakes perpetuated in this system

the degree is the same....the character and quality of the experience is different

only seldomly and with a quarter of the types is it tasted as existential, and even then this existential insecurity/fear takes three quite different forms, is experienced and acted on in three quite different ways.

As i recall you fall into that category which does experience existential fear insecurity directly...so it is normal to expect everyone tastes it like that... and in much the same way.....I also experience it as existential...but differently than you...you, for instance attempt to insulate and isolate yourself from it..i tend to martyr myself to it.

In regard to your later remarks about my ideas of type.........I explained the difficulty in learning about type...the language acquisition begins with the apprehension of much simpler esoteric constructs......and without knowing the language, type cannot be understood.....people quite naturally hate this idea and bite off the finger of anyone who points it out.

Think of me as an arrogant, missguided self involved egomaniac and an as/shole.......if you must


"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...

Edited by - dnimon on 21 Sep 2010 9:16:00 PM
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relicquery
Member

1598 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  07:26:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit relicquery's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by enforest


Haha, thanks Relicquery.

I knew I wasn't crazy.



I feel useful and informative now.




quote:
Originally posted by Kellay

Yeah, I couldn't find them. This was when the "search" bar was still being slow (I think it's better now). Thanks for finding them for me.



Why do you start threads like this, anyway? They come across as superficial, to me, so when I post in them I tend to act silly rather than contribute like an honest member of the EIDB. (Flirting with level Six; my "Wisdom of the Enneagram" book has been tut-tutting for about a week.)




dnimon, I didn't know this subject was one you actually cared about, so I apologize for my offhand reply.

Edited to fix the spelling of dnimon's name. So why did you pick "no mind"?

Edited by - relicquery on 22 Sep 2010 07:46:47 AM
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dusty
Member

3795 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  07:35:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
6s are taking over the planet. Fundamentalist bastards.

I kid the 6s. Kinda.




4w5
sp/sx
4-5-9

frelling froot loop.

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dusty
Member

3795 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  07:53:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit dusty's Homepage  Reply with Quote
6s of the sp/so variety.
Worker Bee type + Worker Bee stacking = MVP




4w5
sp/sx
4-5-9

frelling froot loop.

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dnimon
Member

Australia
6516 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  10:29:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit dnimon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dusty

6s are taking over the planet. Fundamentalist bastards.

I kid the 6s. Kinda.




4w5
sp/sx
4-5-9

frelling froot loop.





haha......It all comes back to insecurity for the individual and the collective......ask anyone......Ohhhh....ask anyone except the etypes.......The idea of insecurity as a classic 6 trait/ a quantity related thing..... is um................ a fall about laughing ridiculous and myopic position

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."...oscar wilde...

Edited by - dnimon on 22 Sep 2010 10:32:44 AM
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Lake
Member

9493 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  3:24:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
6s are taking over the planet. Fundamentalist bastards.

I kid the 6s. Kinda.




4w5
sp/sx
4-5-9


maybe you get a different breed of 6 over there in the midwest.... i would call myself the opposite of a fundamentalist. i have *major* issues with organized religion...

6w7
sp/so
xNFJ
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Honey Bee
Member

17756 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2010 :  5:25:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Honey Bee's Homepage  Reply with Quote
4x5 are the rarest type.
3x2 are the most common type.

Edited by - Honey Bee on 22 Sep 2010 5:32:14 PM
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