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Riley
Member
4382 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 5:53:06 PM
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| How have ennea-themes presented themselves in your dreams? |
Edited by - Riley on 04 Feb 2012 02:13:50 AM |
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carlos
Member
5534 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 6:00:37 PM
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i remember when i first 'discovered' my Etype, i had a dream that someone had cut my head off.
I could still see, as if i still had a head, but i was looking at my head in the hands of the assailant.
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Edited by - carlos on 01 Apr 2011 6:01:07 PM |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
15284 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 6:12:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
@carlos: I was going to say that you may be the first person I've come across to witness their own death in a dream (most wake up before that happens), but I guess you didn't die.
How can you know - what does it mean to witness ones own death in a dream, if not to witness oneself suffering a fatal injury?
[Stormy] |
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carlos
Member
5534 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 6:34:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
How can you know - what does it mean to witness ones own death in a dream, if not to witness oneself suffering a fatal injury?
Just going by carlos' own words that he was still functionally aware and sensate. Perhaps he'll chime in as to whether he remained alive in that state or eventually died.
Like you said, i was still alive, watching my body being beheaded, but my point of view was not that of the beheaded head, but a kind of invisible head slightly behind where the normal head would usually be. i woke up soon after.
My interpetation at the time was "the jig is up." (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_jig_is_up)
btw, the book i was reading at the time was Palmer's Enneagram. |
Edited by - carlos on 01 Apr 2011 6:41:38 PM |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
15284 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 6:48:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
How can you know - what does it mean to witness ones own death in a dream, if not to witness oneself suffering a fatal injury?
Just going by carlos' own words that he was still functionally aware and sensate.
Yes, but how do you know being dead means not being functionally aware - awareness being discernible only from a first-person perspective? You presumably have no first-person evidence of being dead, but a lot of evidence that beheaded people are dead. Note that if you're precluding functional awareness from the state of death, no-one is going to be able witness their own death in a dream - because they won't be aware of it.
[Stormy] |
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carlos
Member
5534 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 7:33:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
@carlos: What is your ennea-type?
i used to be a sx/soc 5w4 but through divine intervention i have been transformed into a soc/sx 5w4 and i'm feeling much better now. 
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Edited by - carlos on 01 Apr 2011 7:33:57 PM |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
15284 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2011 : 7:38:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
Yes, but how do you know being dead means not being functionally aware - awareness being discernible only from a first-person perspective? You presumably have no first-person evidence of being dead, but a lot of evidence that beheaded people are dead. Note that if you're precluding functional awareness from the state of death, no-one is going to be able witness their own death in a dream - because they won't be aware of it.
I don't need evidence to verify an interpretation of an event in a dreamscape. The normal rules of reality don't really apply in that setting. And, as you can read above, carlos didn't experience the event as one resulting in death, even though the event, by the standards of waking reality, would have caused his death. What we know or do not know of the dead in reality doesn't matter, because the interpretation is applied to a dream.
So if one interprets oneself as witnessing ones own death in a dream, one has witnessed ones own death in a dream.
quote:
Originally posted by Riley
That being said, I've yet to see, hear, feel, or read of evidence that dead bodies are aware and functional...unless you're proposing that Zombies are more than mere characters in horror fiction.
Ironic, really; zombies are traditionally the exact opposite - living-beings with no awareness.
[Stormy] |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
15284 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 05:21:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
So if one interprets oneself as witnessing ones own death in a dream, one has witnessed ones own death in a dream.
I don't see why not. The dream self dies, not the person having the dream. You're still there as a third person viewer, you're just viewing yourself. It'd be kinda like time traveling to the future and seeing yourself die. You're still alive because you're the past incarnation of you, completely separate and apart from future you. You're who you were and are in the past in the present future, not who you will become and are in the present future, at least not yet.
I can see how that can be significant.
quote:
Originally posted by Riley
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
Ironic, really; zombies are traditionally the exact opposite - living-beings with no awareness.
They're aware to the extent that they can recognize when other beings are moving, they have motor control, and presumably speak (or roar or moan, whatever you want to call it). They're more aware than a dead person on a slab.
I mean the traditional fictional 'zombie' (from West African Vodun) is a living-person who has been cursed and is under the control of a shaman (or similar), such that they are no longer aware and react to stimuli as said shaman demands. The 'corpse brought back to life' is traditionally referred to as a 'revenant'.
[Stormy] |
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relicquery
Member
1499 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 06:25:20 AM
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For what it's worth, I've died in dreams before. Usually my spirit jumps into a nearby body to continue whatever quest/fight I was trying to complete. Once I jumped to my death to evade capture and sent my spirit out to form a new body before the first body hit the pavement. I walked away in a completely unrecognizable form, assuming those who had wished me harm were still staring in shock at the splatter my last body had become.
For whatever reason, this new body looked like a nearly middle aged businessman.
Another time I was stabbed to death in a knife fight but, on viewing my dead body with my attacker still alive, and the rest of my "team" still struggling, I went into the body of a nearby friend to continue the fight.
So, from personal experience, it's possible to experience/witness one's own death in a dream. Maybe because I identify more with my spirit than my body, my mind assumes that in dreams I can go on without a body, or use a different body, or create a new one, after the original is destroyed violently.
I posted my own head-detaching dream a while back. I had accidentally snapped my own head off while looking in a mirror. It was a clean break. The edge of my neck and the bottom of my head had skin, like any other body part. The rest of the dream was spent moving very carefully, trying to hold my head on. No one would believe that I was in trouble.
_____________ *thud* |
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carlos
Member
5534 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 1:02:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
I mean the traditional fictional 'zombie' (from West African Vodun) is a living-person who has been cursed and is under the control of a shaman (or similar), such that they are no longer aware and react to stimuli as said shaman demands. The 'corpse brought back to life' is traditionally referred to as a 'revenant'.
Ah, I wasn't aware of that interpretation of 'zombie'. I confess I've never really been into zombies, so my experience with the genre comes from a friend's zombie movie obsession (hello Hollywood). What you're describing reminds me, also, of the Inferius in Harry Potter, a dead body that has been reanimated by a dark wizard to do that wizard's bidding.
Riley you need to do more research on zombies because i want you on my team for the Zombie Apocalypse!
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Edited by - carlos on 02 Apr 2011 6:41:33 PM |
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MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 1:40:44 PM
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quote:
I was going to say that you may be the first person I've come across to witness their own death in a dream (
nope. I have a few times... 'If you die in a dream you die in life' is a fallacy
6w5 sp sexy |
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MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2011 : 1:55:45 PM
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quote:
Another time I was stabbed to death in a knife fight but, on viewing my dead body with my attacker still alive, and the rest of my "team" still struggling, I went into the body of a nearby friend to continue the fight
Once I fell from a great height (had made friends with jack the night before) and hit the ground with a thwack. I felt my skull crack and everything went black. Then it went to a different dream. I woke up with the worst headache
6w5 sp sexy |
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baba
Member
2757 Posts |
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quartz
Member
1510 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 10:42:47 AM
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Last night I dreamed I pulled up eidb on a laptop while I was sitting in my grandmother's dining/living room. The page that came up was a thread created by ~lee~ at some time in the past (dream-past, not real life past) from some type of event she had been to. The first photo was of dolphins doing a synchronized swimming routine. I somehow knew there were 16 in all (four rows of four) even though only 8 dolphins (two rows) were visible in the photo. It was an outdoor venue with a very large body of water on a clear sunny day. The photo was moving - like Harry Potter photos, though in the dream there was nothing odd about the fact that the photo was moving. (Yes, logically one would say it was a video; but in the dream it was a photo with motion, not a video. "What's the difference?" I don't know - you know how dreams are - you just 'know' something is a certain thing even if it doesn't sound logical on waking.)
The second photo in the same thread, I don't recall. But the third one astonished me, because it was a photo of my family! Lee had put a caption on the photo that said something like "some spectators [at the event]...." so I realized that to her they were just some strangers she happened to see. Without knowing they were my family, she had taken/posted a photo of them purely by "coincidence." In the photo were my dad and my mom - my mom had a beard similar to my dad's - and my sister and brother. My dad was actually in the photo twice: once on the left of the photo as a younger and more abstract version of himself, with his beard uneven/partial; and again near the center of the photo looking similar to how he looks now. I wanted to tell Lee she had unknowingly photographed my family, and I was trying to decide whether to post in the thread or just email Lee to tell her. "Do I want to tell everyone, or just Lee?"
In the photo of my family there were also two blond girls. One of them I thought might be my cousin R., but the other one didn't look like any of my relatives. The last thing I remember in the dream was wondering who she was and whether she was connected with my family in some way.
As for feeling-tone, the thing that stands out the most was the very positive feeling in seeing the first photo. Something very beautiful and refreshing (like fresh air and clear water, or like free self-expression). The second most noticeable element in the feeling-tone was the sense of excitement of wanting to tell Lee she had unwittingly photographed my family. Like it somehow created/constituted some type of connection or something.
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Edited by - quartz on 26 May 2011 10:51:07 AM |
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dnimon
Member
Australia
5989 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2011 : 10:52:34 AM
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some questions riley
was the structure every revisited in this dream?
did the girl and the circus context have a lewis carol feel to it?
fascinating dream....fascinating metaphors and allegories
Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much....Oscar Wilde
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Kate
Member
5931 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 3:55:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
Every time I've fallen in a dream I end up flying before I hit the bottom. The one time I had a dream pain carry over into real life was when I was shot in the chest in my dream by a classmate in the school cafeteria. I had a pain in my chest throughout the next day at school. (This dream came a few months before the Columbine shootings happened.)
I've had the same experience. Whenever I have falling dreams, I either wake suddenly or fly.
As for physical pain, this is kind of eerie but I remember a physical pain from not only a dream, but also an intense waking physical manifestation of impending doom/death right before the Virginia Tech shootings.
I've also had similar "dreams" for personal things. Maybe it's a high Ni/Ne thing? I don't remember what MBTI type you are..is it INTP?
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Kate
Member
5931 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2011 : 9:46:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Riley
Do you remember the fall for the ones that wake you? I know I've jerked awake suddenly before after a certain kind of falling sensation, but I never remember the actual fall with those...only with the ones that lead to flight.
Yeah, I do. Upon awaking, the fall is still intensely with me, emotionally and visually. With the dreams where I suddenly jerk awake just before crashing, I have to turn on a light, get up and do something to get rid of the bodily memory of falling. My body feels like it's on high alert -- like I just escaped imminent death. I still remember dreams I had years ago like that. The flying ones are pleasant. I remember those as well. I haven't had one of those in a while, but they combine a kind of mortal fear of death followed by a euphoric high at cheating death.
quote:
Originally posted by Riley
Yep, INTP, but my Ni is higher than Ne if you take cognitive functions alone. Are you INTJ?
ISTP
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dnimon
Member
Australia
5989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2011 : 09:41:48 AM
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sorry, i forgot about this thread...these kind of dreams are always easier to place in the context of your everyday life, whether it be your internal or external world
I was naked and riding on the back of a huge brown bear (brown, black, grizzly, not sure), and we were hunting together for "the key" in what looked like a construction site for a building. There were no walls, just wooden framing, the floors were concrete, there were sheets of plywood here and there both on the floor and standing up that you could hide behind. Outside, around this structure, there was some kind of carnival going on. It was daylight. This little girl in a pink coat with pigtails, a shiny blue or purple purse, and a pink, plastic, beaded necklace was licking an ice cream cone and poked her head into the structure and looked at me. The bear charged her. She had "the key," presumably in her purse.
see i'm quite tempted to take this dream as refering to a mental construct...the base seem solid and stable, but and there is a framework, but the rest is in disrepair. the bear whom you feel kindred to represents perhaps a tenacity of aim on one hand and a protector of the construct on the other, the bear seems more interested though, in protecting the construction
Somehow I ended up off the bear and running to the little girl to protect her. The bear was my friend (as if we were 'one'), but it had a mission and I knew it wouldn't relent until it destroyed her. (I was magically clothed by this point.) Her older brother and his girlfriend were at the carnival with her, and after hiding her behind some wood to fake out the bear, I picked her up and ran with her to find them. I told them what was happening and they saw the bear charging behind me. It killed people in its way.
inner conflict, what are you prepared to sacrifice to keep the construct...not the truth it seems...the bear and the virtuous split and pursue different agendas
We ran to their car and drove away, ever hunted by the bear. We went to their apartment building where we were attacked by a bunch of government military agents also after "the key". I pyrokinetically blew up the agents in the apartment, got the brother, etc. to the car, and went back to finish them off. I jumped out of the window at one point into oncoming fire and blew up the agents outside, too. Then I jumped in the car and sped away.
We went to this cheap motel to hide. The bear found us. It stormed into the room and I faced it. I managed to convince it that the girl was innocent and that the people who sent the bear on this mission were corrupt and evil and wanted "the key" for their own gain and for destruction. The bear became the girl's protector along with me, and was once again my form of transportation as we were again united. The girl continually went to me for comfort and it became just her, the bear, and myself. The brother had married his girlfriend and gone on to live his own life.
reconsiliation, your aims and truth are one again............the triad is interesting
The next thing I know, the little girl is grown up and looks like Charlize Theron, while the bear and I haven't aged one bit. The agents find us after years of successful hiding. They demand the key. She tells them that she doesn't have it. The bear kills one of the men, which makes them back off a little.
The next thing I remember is myself, the bear, and the girl becoming one and looking like me. Then I woke up.
the truth grows and you, your aims and the truth become inseperable
When I was coming out of the dream, I remember thinking that the bear and the me that went to protect the girl were two sides of my nature and that the girl didn't have "the key," she was "the key" and she was also my soul child, and, obviously, the bear part of me hunted and tried to kill her.
i agree the girl was the unconscious metaphor for the truth
It was a weird dream.
I should also mention that I was reading about Kali and Shakti before bed. There's even a Kali link to the bear via Artemis for me, personally.
Feel free to analyze this dream, share your own, whatever.
[/quote]
havent read any of the replies yet so ill go back and read
Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much....Oscar Wilde
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quartz
Member
1510 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2011 : 09:53:32 AM
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I wonder if the feel of flying dreams corresponds to type. Flying dreams are among the most pleasant for me also, but feels different from what walden and Riley described. For me it's a sense of freedom... "light" not in the sense of insubstantial, but like the wind blowing through your hair... delicate not in the sense of preciousness or fragility but in the sense of fineness, exquisiteness... a pervasive sense of well-being and joy. There's also a feeling that I can't verbalize well - it's a feeling of beauty similar to the feeling of hearing an exquisite poem or sitting contentedly with someone you sweetly love and completely trust. Freedom, delight, joy, beauty, all being well. It sounds so sappy when I verbalize it. I swear it's not a sappy or schmaltzy feeling. You could compare it to a clear quartz crystal skillfully cut. Yeah, that's a decent analogy I think.
sx/sp 2w1 - ENFP |
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Kate
Member
5931 Posts |
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Kate
Member
5931 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2011 : 4:02:07 PM
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manda7panda ~
Thanks for sharing, manda. It's interesting to read someone else describe their emotional response to flying dreams. There is definitely a feeling of freedom. For me, it also feels invigorating and almost like omnipotence. It's joyous as well, but I would describe my experience as an expansive, powerful joy, rather then fineness or exquisiteness.
Your analogy of how you experience the delight is interesting and it made me want to define my own experience :P For me, it's like an ecstatic joy of defying gravity and there's a strong physical component to it. The analogy that comes to mind is of practicing a difficult physical maneuver over and over that feels like working against the laws of physics. I would give the example of a dancer, a ballerina, an acrobat, a figure skater, a ski jumper, a stunt driver. There's a learning curve in which you are ungraceful and fail or fall or stumble repeatedly. Then suddenly everything comes together and you reach a place of astounding grace. That's where the euphoric feeling comes in, for me.
7w8 sp/sx ISTP |
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MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 8:44:30 PM
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quote:
Flying dreams are among the most pleasant for me
quote:
For me, on the other hand, it's more of a rush of power
Some of the scariest for me, repeated flying dreams in childhood had to do with extremes of excapism at a very young age..to where i thought it might work irl. |
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MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 8:58:07 PM
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quote:
Were they scary because you thought they might work and the prospect terrified you, or scary because you tested it out (the way kids sometimes do) and ended up hurt as a result?
tested it out..lol.. i had certain people chasing me and opened my arms and flapped like a bird and took off onto a neighbors rooftop but was found. the whole time I had mucho adrenaline so it all blended together and there was never a 'free feeling' associated with flight per say |
Edited by - MH on 11 Jun 2011 9:04:07 PM |
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MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2011 : 9:03:07 PM
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Guess it stands out to me cuz I was never able to control it via lucid dreams. In that one I was never able to make it to a different or hidden place. It was always the neighbors rooftop. Other dreams I had fun with.
I had one about a valentine card I couldnt change either and one about goats on a rollercoaster. I hated all of those recurring dreams equally
I guess it was disturbing because each became familiar but unlike normal nightmares I couldnt change any of the three so I was stuck watching them |
Edited by - MH on 11 Jun 2011 9:05:57 PM |
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savory
Member
3123 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2011 : 5:39:09 PM
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eidbuser was in my dream this morning.
Can't remember all the details but he was also sort of a cross between himself and slipgun. heh. And was taking a foreign language class at a university and I met him in the hallway (I forget what I was doing there, probably attending to business of some sort). I had forgotten that he was going to that university but wasn't shocked to see him there.
The gist was that I was wearing very a 'fire' colored bohemian dress, looking solid and friendly, and he was shy and nice (though still very sx) and I wanted to scoop him up and take him out for coffee to pick his brain about ennea-stuff. So I told him that I wanted to do that sometime and he said okay yeah that'd be cool(!)
"Life never becomes a habit to me. It's always a marvel." -- K. Mansfield |
Edited by - savory on 18 Aug 2011 5:41:40 PM |
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eidbuser
Member
1957 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2011 : 6:21:47 PM
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Ennea-Dreams
*wince!* that would hurt 