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type 9, idealistic/over-noncomformist
Does not take responsibility for cultivating his essence.

the over non-conformist
does not agree with how the world is outside.
When he starts seeing himself, he is going to
find that he does not like things about him-
self; he will propose to himself new ways of
trying things, and thus he will become a seeker
who searches endlessly everywhere.

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"The indolent ego type of person may be very energetic in his relations with the outside world but he does not take responsibility for cultivating his essence.

"This fixation roots in an especially keen awareness of the absence of love and therefore of a sense of lacking being. The indolent type goes out looking for the love and meaning he feels deprived of; he becomes a continual seeker but never a finder. This is his trap. He is always searching outside of himself for what can only be found within. But in a perverse way the seeker is ignorant about himself. He believes he knows all about other people and he doesn't hesitate to tell everyone else.

"The hell of the indolent is the worst of all the fixations because it leads to inner paralysis and indecision. The ego-indolent is always working very hard seeking, but until the last moment when the fixation breaks, he vacillates and never quite takes the responsibility for his own life. He is always dealing with the largest issues of identity and destiny-- total truth and total perfection [i.e., wing points 8 and 1, respectively]-- but he feels how far he is from being able to love and act authentically. The indolent person frequently tries to use sex to gain love. He makes the whole world over into the image of the absent mother...

"[Ego-indolent] is a fundamental condition of all ego consciousness, but some people are more aware of it than others. The indolent fixation is at the head of the enneagon because it focuses on the most universal aspect of the ego's deprivation. In the same way, the remedy for indolence is in some way the remedy which cures all egos-- the idea of holy love.

"Love starts in the moment a man contemplates the creation and says 'Thank you, God.' The Holy Spirit really takes care of the universe; it is the active principle of love in all things. And it is only by getting in touch with this spirit that the indolence of the ego is transformed into active love. Holy love breaks the indolence and removes the feeling of separatness. With holy love comes the awareness that although the laws which govern reality are objective, they are not cold, because they lead to the creation of organic life that fulfills a cosmic purpose. "

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Originally posted by Orpheus


I think those questions would be best directed at yourself. Isn't your "desire for connection" just a way you 'outwardly seek'? It's just a way that you 'dress up' a problem of the ego.

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Like me

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They already are

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Desire itself is the pure energy of seeking.

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You ignored all my points, not that I expected them to penetrate, but I do have a bit of reactivity towards you that arise from a few things.

Went back and tried to address some. Anything else that you think I missed?


First and foremost is just tediousness - the exact same patterns, loops of thinking - smoke-screening right after a realization but before you take steps to grow from it, a kind of circular running in place.

What kind of realizations do you think I've had that I haven't grown from, and the patterns I'm stuck in? I can't always see myself.


Secondly the way you seem to gain a lot of self-satisfaction (and self-congratulations) from it. I find it stunning the way you'll post about hating your life, then you'll make a series of posts that in my eyes are attention grabbing attempts to self-mythologize or see yourself as particularly deep or suffering or spiritual, and the next day you'll post a topic like this which essentially comes from a place of scolding others for not being a "real seeker" like you [and being genuinely unkind to others on the board on a frequent basis]. What are you seeking? It does not seem to me to be what G meant when he belonged to his own SAT group.

Yeah, you seem to be pointing out the narcissism of it all. The existential angst, meaninglessness, grandiosity, attention seeking, self-mythologizing, hatred and rage. Although I do think you project more "image" onto me than is actually there, perhaps as yourself being an image type; and maybe aside from projection, you are typologically more attuned to the "image dimension" of human behavior. But for me, it feels more like my narcissistic need to express my "self" or my feelings. It's more about self-image, or how I see myself, rather than how I want other people to see me.

Being unkind to others on the board comes from my own experience of people on the board being unkind to me. The board has almost always had an element of hostility to it, which is also present in yourself.


It often appears to me to be a game you play with yourself to appear (to yourself) that you're 'going somewhere' (psycho-spiritually) without really moving a muscle. It's the epitome of sloth to me, and sloth is a passion i have reactivity against.
It's my perception of you that in your Seeking After Truth, your 'Truth' serves the same function that people Seek After Money or sex or fame - setting little milestones for ego.

Perhaps you have developed much further than I'm giving you credit for, I can't really know, but I'm trying to respond honest from a place of how I perceive you based on your board behavior.

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Originally posted by Lake

I was referring to the above.

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Originally posted by eidbuser



Often life feels meaningless to me, which I often blame on the culture I live in and the people that compose it. When I was angry and critical in my original post, I wanted to point this out and attack the meaninglessness of everything. To belittle people and make them feel like their lives are stupid and pointless, which is how I experience my life in a secular, western, materialistic culture.

I get offended when I see people living and acting meaninglessly and apparently reveling in this ignorance without knowing it as such.


I heard Eckhart Tolle say this recently: "The ego wants to want more than it wants to have".
If you notice other people's egos doing the ego thing, can you just forgive (forgive = remember understand and overlook) that we all act unconsiously when we're acting out of our egos (and for many people, that's all of the time because they don't know any better.)

I think a big part of what you're doing comes from your 1 wing. You're judging people and yourself harshly, and you're not accepting reality (as it is in the moment). You're saying "no" to what is. That's not wrong...it's just an ego thing.

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Desire itself is the pure energy of seeking.

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Desire is the ego thing.



Pretty simple. We exist as beings of pure desire. Desire comes out of our feeling of incompleteness. So as long as we exist as empty unfulfilled beings, desire is the primary force of our life. In this sense we are all seekers, composed of internal seeking and external seeking in whatever admixture we find ourselves in. Until we find ourselves without desire we will be constantly seeking.

This isn't meant to imply that desire and seeking is "bad." It's just the vicious circle of egoic/samsaric life.


The desire to make others/society/reality more "pure" or more "perfect" is a 1ish ego thing.




Yeah, you seem to be pointing out the narcissism of it all. The existential angst, meaninglessness, grandiosity, attention seeking, self-mythologizing, hatred and rage. Although I do think you project more "image" onto me than is actually there, perhaps as yourself being an image type; and maybe aside from projection, you are typologically more attuned to the "image dimension" of human behavior. But for me, it feels more like my narcissistic need to express my "self" or my feelings. It's more about self-image, or how I see myself, rather than how I want other people to see me.


Maybe this says something about the difference between 4s and 1ishness.



Being unkind to others on the board comes from my own experience of people on the board being unkind to me. The board has almost always had an element of hostility to it, which is also present in yourself.

It's true that this is a hostile place, and hostility is a good indication that the person is defending. We all do it here. We can take it personally or we can take a minute to step back and see it for what it really is...egos being defensive. It's just what people do. This board offers an opportunity to experience the unconsciousness of others...and then ourselves. It gives us both the experience and the time/space to see it for what it is.




I think I have grown more than others see here. I express a lot of my "ego" here and how I act on the internet isn't always indicative of how I am in actual life. The internet has been my main form of social interaction since I first got a computer in 5th grade.

I don't know if I'm really "going anywhere" and that's not usually how I think of my path. I don't think of it so much as progressing from point A to point B. I don't really think of it as achieving some kind of "accomplishment." Usually what I'm trying to do is to resolve some kind of emotional, spiritual, or existential conflict within myself. I only feel like I make progress if I heal something within myself, or understand something about myself a little more.

I relate.

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When I said desire for connection I didn't necessarily mean to something specifically external: feeling an internal connection, or not feeling alienated.

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Yeah, you may have somewhat of a point there. But that's also the nature of my path: rollercoastering in a sine wave.

I wonder, did what I say make you feel your life was being discounted? Maybe you think your life is more meaningful than I see or give it credit for?

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I guess you're putting me in the category of those "outwardly seeking"? It's hard to say if the path is totally a trance. I think it partially is, but I also think there's real change happening. I could be deluded about that as well though, how can I say for sure?

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Often life feels meaningless to me, which I often blame on the culture I live in and the people that compose it. When I was angry and critical in my original post, I wanted to point this out and attack the meaninglessness of everything. To belittle people and make them feel like their lives are stupid and pointless, which is how I experience my life in a secular, western, materialistic culture.

I get offended when I see people living and acting meaninglessly and apparently reveling in this ignorance without knowing it as such. I see that I'm taking it very personally and how sensitive I am to it. Other people seem to exacerbate my feeling of alienation. It's not entirely the board, I know there are some genuine people here. But even that binds me: the duality of genuine/ingenuine people. I seem to project my meaninglessness onto other people and the material world and subsequently become wounded by it.

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Pretty simple. We exist as beings of pure desire. Desire comes out of our feeling of incompleteness. So as long as we exist as empty unfulfilled beings, desire is the primary force of our life. In this sense we are all seekers, composed of internal seeking and external seeking in whatever admixture we find ourselves in. Until we find ourselves without desire we will be constantly seeking.

This isn't meant to imply that desire and seeking is "bad." It's just the vicious circle of egoic/samsaric life.

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What kind of realizations do you think I've had that I haven't grown from, and the patterns I'm stuck in? I can't always see myself.

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Yeah, you seem to be pointing out the narcissism of it all. The existential angst, meaninglessness, grandiosity, attention seeking, self-mythologizing, hatred and rage. Although I do think you project more "image" onto me than is actually there, perhaps as yourself being an image type; and maybe aside from projection, you are typologically more attuned to the "image dimension" of human behavior. But for me, it feels more like my narcissistic need to express my "self" or my feelings. It's more about self-image, or how I see myself, rather than how I want other people to see me.

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Being unkind to others on the board comes from my own experience of people on the board being unkind to me. The board has almost always had an element of hostility to it, which is also present in yourself.

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I think I have grown more than others see here. I express a lot of my "ego" here and how I act on the internet isn't always indicative of how I am in actual life. The internet has been my main form of social interaction since I first got a computer in 5th grade.

I don't know if I'm really "going anywhere" and that's not usually how I think of my path. I don't think of it so much as progressing from point A to point B. I don't really think of it as achieving some kind of "accomplishment." Usually what I'm trying to do is to resolve some kind of emotional, spiritual, or existential conflict within myself. I only feel like I make progress if I heal something within myself, or understand something about myself a little more.

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