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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:09:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
Something about my father. I see that so much of my personal identity is in reaction to him. With him being a 3, I have a complete reaction against any form of image. I also react against him being a violent and aggressive person. I react against all forms of ego.
Yet at the same time I have an image around having no image. Feeling superior for not being egoic and deluded like everyone else.
I used to wear the exact same clothes all the time as a show of this anti-image. It was a kind of statement for me to not change my outfit, to not groom myself or have personal hygiene. It was a way to attract attention, stand out, and differentiate myself from people deluded enough to care about their image.
Another thing is that there is a semi-conscious, semi-unconscious self-sabotaging mechanism in my psyche. It's as if I have a personal desire to become a failure in life, and to make as big a show of this failure as possible. I want to become known and seen for my failure and disregard for myself and my life. There's an unconscious tendency towards suicide. At the same time, I want this failure and this suicide to save me. I want to look so miserable that someone will care enough to rescue me, to save me.
I don't want to be like my father, but at the same time, beyond my rejection of him, I wish he could have really loved me. I wish he would have seen me and had been proud of me instead of always criticizing me, instead of feeling like I was a shame to him. I wish he would have seen me as a star instead of as a pile of siht.
Maybe my desire to fail completely in his eyes is a desire to finally get his real attention, to finally get him to love me, to finally save me and be proud of me. I wish I could have been acceptable to him.
The damage he caused me... to never feel like I could ever be right or good enough. I was a constant flaw. He couldn't see any goodness or inherent perfection in me. He always saw what was wrong in me. He always told me I was bad.
I lost my perfection. I lost my completeness.
cyto, do you see similarities?
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chemical_art
Member
1363 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:23:25 AM
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:27:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thesingularsensation
quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
wait a second..... is singular arguing that you're a 9?
no . . . I'm not yet convinced of a 4w5 fix, tho, much less main type...
and how do you type dusty apart from that?
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:30:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dusty
quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
quote:
Originally posted by thesingularsensation
quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
wait a second..... is singular arguing that you're a 9?
no . . . I'm not yet convinced of a 4w5 fix, tho, much less main type...
and how do you type dusty apart from that?
I don't believe singular is interested in trying to objectively type people.
I'm also wondering how s/he twisted what I was saying into I am withdrawn to defend a nebulous self (??).
By my own self-analysis I have a specific self that I am trying to maintain, protect and own with boundaries. I need to create and maintain my identity by keeping things out and staying isolated. If my self is other-influenced and created than it isn't really mine, if it's shared than it isn't really mine. I am my own. I also think minimizing and separation gives me some kind of freedom and feeling of dominion over myself and my life. I am not owned by all of these other forces. I feel on top and self-determining rather than awash. I'm trying to protect myself not just from self-altering forces, but also from self-destroying forces. It over-laps I guess, because what alters the self is in fact destroying a specific incarnation of the self. Violation feels like destruction to me, and that's why I have such a strong reaction against it.
...I also think minimizing and separation gives me some kind of freedom and feeling of dominion over myself and my life...
sounds ninish...
delphyne is a sp/sx 4w5.
you have criticized her subversive, hard-nosed manner and unfriendly typing on board.
but you're not subversive enough on this board to look like a sp/sx4w5, dusty.
you 're more gentle and especially not a green-eyed monster ...
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:32:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
...I also think minimizing and separation gives me some kind of freedom and feeling of dominion over myself and my life...
sounds ninish...
delphyne is a sp/sx 4w5.
you have criticized her subversive and hard-nosed manner on board.
you're not subversive enough on this board to be a sp/sx4w5, dusty.
youre more gentle and especially not a green-eyed monster ...
wft...
It's not 9ish, sry guy.
Do you even understand what I'm saying about self-hood? Do you see how it is not 9ish?
You seem to have a vested interest in seeing me as a 9, what's that about?
I've criticized Delphyne because she is retarded and full of crap and for some reason people can't see it. Not 4w5 either. |
Edited by - dusty on 05 Apr 2012 11:33:41 AM |
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:38:01 AM
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i have no problem to accept your self image as a 4w5. you know yourself better than me, i hope.
but you asked me how i see your type.
so dont get dissapointed if i see things different.
i mean i cannot fight my intuition, you know.
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:42:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
i have no problem to accept your self image as a 4w5. you know yourself better than me, i hope.
but you asked me how i see your type.
so dont get dissapointed if i see things different.
i mean i cannot fight my intuition, you know.
I'm not disappointed so much as confused. I think my type is obvious, I didn't have trouble self-typing at all. And I don't think you can call what I've been saying 9ish. Weirdly enough, I've never been described as soft or gentle irl, and those aren't words I would use to describe myself. I get called delicate and fragile a lot though. |
Edited by - dusty on 05 Apr 2012 11:47:08 AM |
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:48:51 AM
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enneathing also said about you: ..."it's the vague, contracted, sort of muted quality, as others have brought up...".
so you probably leave a more gentle impression on board than you're aware of.
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:52:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dusty
I've criticized Delphyne because she is retarded and full of crap and for some reason people can't see it. Not 4w5 either.
she is not a 4w5 in your eyes, so how do you type her?
btw didnt she type you as a 6w5?
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:55:19 AM
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| She types me as 6w5, I type her as 6w5, we both self-type as 4w5 (I think she self-types as 4w5?). |
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 11:59:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dusty
She types me as 6w5, I type her as 6w5, we both self-type as 4w5 (I think she self-types as 4w5?).
funny! yeah , she self- types as 4w5 - 6w5 - 1w2.
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Edited by - Glasgow on 05 Apr 2012 12:02:25 PM |
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Orpheus
Member
Romania
3999 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 12:06:46 PM
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dusty is obviously 4/5, she's not even all that gentle or soft. you're referencing enneathing's take on dusty, but enneathing is much softer and more diffuse than dusty.
the exclusion and strong boundaries are pretty typical of sp 4/5. 4s are very particular about what they allow to enter in, much like a 5, except the angst is about expanding identity rather than anxiety at overwhelm.
Delphyne is a 6/5, comes across much like singular, except del is 1 fixed and singular is 9/8 fixed.
________________________________
The agony of lovers
burns with the fire of passion.
Lovers leave traces of where they've been.
The wailing of broken hearts
is the doorway to God.
King Night
Mutima kwithu kuli nkongono, para kakuwira comene
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sunny
Member
USA
9379 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 12:18:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
Something about my father. I see that so much of my personal identity is in reaction to him. With him being a 3, I have a complete reaction against any form of image. I also react against him being a violent and aggressive person. I react against all forms of ego.
Yet at the same time I have an image around having no image. Feeling superior for not being egoic and deluded like everyone else.
I used to wear the exact same clothes all the time as a show of this anti-image. It was a kind of statement for me to not change my outfit, to not groom myself or have personal hygiene. It was a way to attract attention, stand out, and differentiate myself from people deluded enough to care about their image.
Another thing is that there is a semi-conscious, semi-unconscious self-sabotaging mechanism in my psyche. It's as if I have a personal desire to become a failure in life, and to make as big a show of this failure as possible. I want to become known and seen for my failure and disregard for myself and my life. There's an unconscious tendency towards suicide. At the same time, I want this failure and this suicide to save me. I want to look so miserable that someone will care enough to rescue me, to save me.
I don't want to be like my father, but at the same time, beyond my rejection of him, I wish he could have really loved me. I wish he would have seen me and had been proud of me instead of always criticizing me, instead of feeling like I was a shame to him. I wish he would have seen me as a star instead of as a pile of siht.
Maybe my desire to fail completely in his eyes is a desire to finally get his real attention, to finally get him to love me, to finally save me and be proud of me. I wish I could have been acceptable to him.
It sounds like you'd like to start over with a more healthy version of your father...like you want to be "reborn" and "reparented".
The damage he caused me... to never feel like I could ever be right or good enough. I was a constant flaw. He couldn't see any goodness or inherent perfection in me. He always saw what was wrong in me. He always told me I was bad.
Feeling like you're "bad" might be about having a heavy 1 wing.
I lost my perfection.E-1 I lost my completeness. E-9
I'll be interested to see how others respond to this, because I relate to it a lot.
I have huge anger toward both of my parents for failing to meet my needs. I've been aware that I don't want to be successful in the eyes of the world because I don't want to give my parents reason to be proud. I want their failure mirrored back at them.
It's a kind of revenge...a big 9ish rebellious "giving them the finger". It justifies my sloth.
In my case, I have the feeling it has to do with the 9 counter-clockwise and disintegrative move to both 8 and 6. It's the anti-health move for 9.
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Edited by - sunny on 05 Apr 2012 12:29:15 PM |
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
15278 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 12:37:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoL
quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
Something about my father. I see that so much of my personal identity is in reaction to him. With him being a 3, I have a complete reaction against any form of image. I also react against him being a violent and aggressive person. I react against all forms of ego.
Yet at the same time I have an image around having no image. Feeling superior for not being egoic and deluded like everyone else.
I used to wear the exact same clothes all the time as a show of this anti-image. It was a kind of statement for me to not change my outfit, to not groom myself or have personal hygiene. It was a way to attract attention, stand out, and differentiate myself from people deluded enough to care about their image.
Another thing is that there is a semi-conscious, semi-unconscious self-sabotaging mechanism in my psyche. It's as if I have a personal desire to become a failure in life, and to make as big a show of this failure as possible. I want to become known and seen for my failure and disregard for myself and my life. There's an unconscious tendency towards suicide. At the same time, I want this failure and this suicide to save me. I want to look so miserable that someone will care enough to rescue me, to save me.
I don't want to be like my father, but at the same time, beyond my rejection of him, I wish he could have really loved me. I wish he would have seen me and had been proud of me instead of always criticizing me, instead of feeling like I was a shame to him. I wish he would have seen me as a star instead of as a pile of siht.
Maybe my desire to fail completely in his eyes is a desire to finally get his real attention, to finally get him to love me, to finally save me and be proud of me. I wish I could have been acceptable to him.
The damage he caused me... to never feel like I could ever be right or good enough. I was a constant flaw. He couldn't see any goodness or inherent perfection in me. He always saw what was wrong in me. He always told me I was bad.
I lost my perfection. I lost my completeness.
I'll be interested to see how others respond to this, because I relate to it a lot.
I've highlighted the bits I relate to.
- [Stormy] |
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 12:39:59 PM
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quote:
you're referencing enneathing's take on dusty, but enneathing is much softer and more diffuse than dusty.
enneathing is softer than dusty.yeah.
but dusty is more communicative , sociable , outgoing on board than delphyne or enneathing.
dusty is more direct and outspoken on board.
so i cannot reconcile this with spsx 4w5.
btw del is a 4w5. 100%. we phoned long enough.
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 12:49:17 PM
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| I'm not sociable at all on here. Mostly I'm interested in figuring people out, or sometimes talking about myself, but I don't do any socializing and 'hanging out'. I don't get too involved with anyone. I can be pretty outspoken when expressing my opinions. |
Edited by - dusty on 05 Apr 2012 12:58:51 PM |
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Orpheus
Member
Romania
3999 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 12:58:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
quote:
you're referencing enneathing's take on dusty, but enneathing is much softer and more diffuse than dusty.
enneathing is softer than dusty.yeah.
but dusty is more communicative , sociable , outgoing on board than delphyne or enneathing.
dusty is more direct and outspoken on board.
so i cannot reconcile this with spsx 4w5.
btw del is a 4w5. 100%. we phoned long enough.
How can you not reconcil outspoken and direct online with sp 4/5? Image types are communicative about impressions and expressing themselves, plus 5 brings curiosity.
It will take me much more to buy del as a 4. I type enneathing as a 9, very similar style to EUs more tearse style.
________________________________
The agony of lovers
burns with the fire of passion.
Lovers leave traces of where they've been.
The wailing of broken hearts
is the doorway to God.
King Night
Mutima kwithu kuli nkongono, para kakuwira comene
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 1:09:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus
enneathing is much softer and more diffuse than dusty... I type enneathing as a 9, very similar style to EUs more tearse style.
She's certainly softer than me. She also tends to contribute sidekick style and kind of gets caught up in superficial, unimportant stuff the way I see 9s doing. |
Edited by - dusty on 05 Apr 2012 1:39:34 PM |
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:06:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dusty
quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus
enneathing is much softer and more diffuse than dusty... I type enneathing as a 9, very similar style to EUs more tearse style.
She's certainly softer than me. She also tends to contribute sidekick style and kind of gets caught up in superficial, unimportant stuff the way I see 9s doing.
sidekick style , indirect , subtle and hidden allusions are much more 4 than 9. one of the reasons i see enneathing as a 4w5. 9 is direct or avoiding. and when she said that she is full of envie and ashamed to show her tainted inner being i believed her.
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:13:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dusty
I'm not sociable at all on here. Mostly I'm interested in figuring people out, or sometimes talking about myself, but I don't do any socializing and 'hanging out'. I don't get too involved with anyone. I can be pretty outspoken when expressing my opinions.
hmm...
well, dusty, you have shown different faces.
i saw you hanging out here , sociable, joking about bar fights e.g..or only when i am around..
too i have seen an angry girl attacking del, ennea and eu e.g.
but in a direct way and not subtle and with hidden allusions a la delphyne.
btw dusty, what makes you envious
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eidbuser
Member
1957 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:25:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoL
It sounds like you'd like to start over with a more healthy version of your father...like you want to be "reborn" and "reparented".
Yes, the desire for rebirth seems to be a theme in my life. But there is no birth without death.
quote:
I'll be interested to see how others respond to this, because I relate to it a lot.
I have huge anger toward both of my parents for failing to meet my needs. I've been aware that I don't want to be successful in the eyes of the world because I don't want to give my parents reason to be proud. I want their failure mirrored back at them.
It's a kind of revenge...a big 9ish rebellious "giving them the finger". It justifies my sloth.
In my case, I have the feeling it has to do with the 9 counter-clockwise and disintegrative move to both 8 and 6. It's the anti-health move for 9.
I often get the feeling that you relate to me a lot more than I relate to you. Either way, I don't like being related to or relating to others. I like my suffering or other qualities to be my own, to confer upon me some unique significance. This is particularly true about my suffering, since that is actually the core of my identity, as it is with all human beings. It's peculiar how much I hold onto my suffering. It seems to be all I have left to give me a sense of self.
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:33:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Orpheus
...How can you not reconcil outspoken and direct online with sp 4/5? Image types are communicative about impressions and expressing themselves, plus 5 brings curiosity ...
outspoken language in a direct way without subtle hidden allusions but suspicion expressed by assumptions instead reminds me of 9 and 6 area . sp/sx9w1 disintegrating to 6 or sp/sx6w5.
even more when she switches in a rapid cycling between gentle and aggressive.
such a spsx4w5 does not exist, i claim.
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Stormy
Member
United Kingdom
15278 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:34:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
sidekick style , indirect , subtle and hidden allusions are much more 4 than 9. one of the reasons i see enneathing as a 4w5. 9 is direct or avoiding.
Like E9 is never passive-aggressive.
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- [Stormy] |
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:34:58 PM
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quote:
well, dusty, you have shown different faces.
i saw you hanging out here , sociable, joking about bar fights e.g..or only when i am around..
I don't really remember hanging out much. I mean look at other people around here who have friends and participate in a non-Enneagram oriented way. My interest here is not making friends, its pretty specific.
quote:
too i have seen an angry girl attacking del, ennea and eu e.g.
but in a direct way and not subtle and with hidden allusions a la delphyne.
I wouldn't say angry, sometimes irritated or annoyed, especially if it seems to me that people aren't dealing with the core of something, if that is being unseen. Like I said if I think I see something I 'report' on it. I can be pretty direct and that surprises people.
I've never attacked enneathing(??).
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
5832 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:39:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stormy
quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
sidekick style , indirect , subtle and hidden allusions are much more 4 than 9. one of the reasons i see enneathing as a 4w5. 9 is direct or avoiding.
Like E9 is never passive-aggressive.
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- [Stormy]
passive -aggressive is
avoiding in my scheme [not a scottish gang scheme]
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dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2012 : 2:41:13 PM
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@Glasgow
I'm pretty asleep to my envy. I remember being very envious as a child however. I think I avoid so I don't feel envy or dissatisfaction with myself. |
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TYPES of the MEMBERS who want to be typed II
