| Author |
 Topic  |
|
dboon
Member
2069 Posts |
 Posted - 06 May 2012 : 1:50:07 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lovemyth
I would take these things with a grain of salt. There is much that is unsaid, revolving around and intermingled with the needs/compulsions of others and their own projections, as they busily attempt to orchestrate a reality (unique to each of us). It has less to do with you and more to do with them, and not of a benign nature or a holistic gift bereft of anything ulterior. |
 |
|
|
dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:05:52 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lovemyth
how is buying a book for a novice who is having trouble understanding it- which book i buy for HIM- reflective of my taste? i wouldn't give him other books because he wouldn't understand them. the entire point was to get him interested not to express myself in gift giving.
I don't think your choice of book could indicate a 4w3 or 4w5 fix, that seems pretty flimsy to me. As far as core 4w3 or 4w5 I think it could. A lot of people, but especially 4s, tend to compulsively push their tastes onto other people, trying to enlighten them. A gift does represent the tastes of the giver, and even giving a gift that is separated from the tastes of the giver may indicate egolessness about taste, or simply absence of taste/preference. But 4s have a lot of ego about taste and compulsively represent themselves. You could argue that a mature individual wouldn't do this and you'd be right. |
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
11062 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:06:28 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
I noticed something about myself last night though. I realized that there is a part of me that actually does the thing that r&h say , about identifying with idealized versions of reality. I think it's one of the things that perpetuates my romantic longing and procrastination. It often happens when I fall in love or become infatuated with someone. A lot of my sense of objective reality can go out the window as I get lost in my idealistic fantasies around the redemption of a mystical love.
Little-known fact: 9s are doubly 'romantic'. Not in the typical sense of the word. Romance as a removal-from-reality mode. First, there's the initial change-up filter at the mind's eye (as described in Jung's introverted-sensation type), then Phase Two is building an idealized story ('myth/fairytale') around the (pre-distorted) 'object'.
4s, often associated with this kind of inner process, are actually Phase Two romantics, in this schema, imo....meaning that they mainly start and end there, in the 'story' mode, i.e.- they're dealing much more with the real person (whatever that means) as compared to 9s. [Which is by no means to say that 4s don't idealize/project/romanticize people. It's all relative.]
This is where you get, in 9w1s especially, the romance about ideas, seen copiously in Einstein and David Lynch, for example. A romance about a romance.
Jung, himself, is replete with these kind of double-romances, e.g.: human psychological 'energies'/complexes are mythologized (transfigured / distorted, perhaps) into archetypes, and then set in the purely abstract theater of the universalistic Collective Unconscious.....connecting everything to everything. Magic.
The word romance is the right word here because there's a pseudo-libidinal/oral charge to the style of the filtering and the way objects are clasped in the mind and Subconscious. Which also alludes to a subtle way in which the 9's Positive Outlook manifests: that the 'object' is mainly washed of all malevolence, thus giving rise to a (pseudo-sexual) 'closeness'/merging motif.
Or, in some cases, even the malevolence is idealized and fetishized, but, again, this is a distortion and caricaturization (by encasement within the confines of a mental fetish) as a way to set things in an abstract space, devoid of consequences. Again, double-removal/double-romance.
|
|
|
|
sunny
Member
USA
9379 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:07:37 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dboon
quote:
Originally posted by lovemyth
I would take these things with a grain of salt. There is much that is unsaid, revolving around and intermingled with the needs/compulsions of others and their own projections, as they busily attempt to orchestrate a reality (unique to each of us). It has less to do with you and more to do with them, and not of a benign nature or a holistic gift bereft of anything ulterior.
You are right on dboon.
Watching the process is a little painful.
-----------------------
|
Edited by - sunny on 06 May 2012 2:19:10 PM |
|
|
|
MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:13:19 PM
|
quote:
Watching t process is a little painful
mhm..I'll tell ya it took years for me to get over mine but I came on here like a bat out of hell anyway so..
baba posted this song awhile ago. Thought how befitting for this place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQfjIw3mivc |
Edited by - MH on 06 May 2012 2:23:55 PM |
|
|
|
sunny
Member
USA
9379 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:19:49 PM
|
(oops...watching THE process I meant)
I don't know...it's like watching a force-feeding or something. A Clockwork Orange.
-----------------------
|
Edited by - sunny on 06 May 2012 2:22:45 PM |
|
|
|
MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:26:08 PM
|
quote:
it's like watching a force-feeding or something
yes, alot of rejection and pain. I learned something in the process but not sure how worth it it was. There are better ways. Therapy with a good therapist for one. |
|
|
|
dboon
Member
2069 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:27:11 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by JoL
Thanks JoL.. I'm still waiting for the day some retyper comes along and says..
"I have a problem with your self-typing, because it feels like you're making yourself special, and I fear that other people will buy this bushel of corn and you'll end up expanding bigger and get credit for things you don't deserve". |
|
|
|
dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:29:42 PM
|
| I've noticed people will try and take something that actually isn't indicative of anything, some random human thing, and say it's indicative of a particular type. Often something said that is simply human will be attributed to 6 influence, human nature being fundamentally 6ish. |
Edited by - dusty on 06 May 2012 2:30:18 PM |
|
|
|
lovemyth
Member
USA
2934 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:30:51 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dusty
quote:
Originally posted by lovemyth
how is buying a book for a novice who is having trouble understanding it- which book i buy for HIM- reflective of my taste? i wouldn't give him other books because he wouldn't understand them. the entire point was to get him interested not to express myself in gift giving.
I don't think your choice of book could indicate a 4w3 or 4w5 fix, that seems pretty flimsy to me. As far as core 4w3 or 4w5 I think it could. A lot of people, but especially 4s, tend to compulsively push their tastes onto other people, trying to enlighten them. A gift does represent the tastes of the giver, and even giving a gift that is separated from the tastes of the giver may indicate egolessness about taste, or simply absence of taste/preference. But 4s have a lot of ego about taste and compulsively represent themselves. You could argue that a mature individual wouldn't do this and you'd be right.
i understand what you are saying here but i think it is trying to invade every single thing that ever occurs in a human being. sometimes there are other reasons and motivations involved in any single event. to have one have a hold on every single action you take in all of existence- would make existence impossible. like i want a sandwich right now. getting that sandwich informed by compulsively representing my ideal self- is silly. no i'm going to get a sandwich because i am hungry. (i'm not actually because i do not have sandwich stuff)
also i wouldn't be with my BF if i didn't respect his tastes- even if we don't always agree. i did very much get over thinking i was better than other people- because of what i like. like you said- it started to look like bs to me. other people made available to me respectable POVs while i started to see it as a defense making myself available to them.
sometimes people do have good and valid reason behind what they are attracted to. even i can't see it and it doesn't work for me because i am not like them. i dunno i went through a whole thing there.
being able to see the value in other people on their own terms- has helped me in accepting myself more totally. or maybe it was the other way around. dunno.
-beeotchy for fun and profit-
current lololo8 status:
do you like my eyebrows? they are very grieco. |
Edited by - lovemyth on 06 May 2012 2:32:10 PM |
|
|
|
Corruption
Member
United Kingdom
273 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:33:47 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by thomg
- lastly, this is textbook 7, Desdemona often voices similar thoughts:
somehow i feel like i am being boxed in here- to be everything in total to one certain image of myself that would equal four in everyone mind. but i have various facets and various moods. i don;t think it's fair to take my immediate and apply it to my totality.
That's how I feel and am very clearly not a seven, though I would be amazed if you were actually implying this is somehow unique to E7. |
|
|
|
lovemyth
Member
USA
2934 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 2:54:06 PM
|
may- yeah i think you are right- and i'm flattered by some of what you said- but i've felt my type has been invisible. either no one found it interesting or i just wasn't giving anything out or they were satisfied with my typing- i figure. when i pushed i got fairly often i don't really get anything or variations there of. i found it frustrating that it didn't seem like i inspired any opinions.
hmm dunno.
-beeotchy for fun and profit-
current lololo8 status:
do you like my eyebrows? they are very grieco. |
|
|
|
Glasgow
Member
Germany
5828 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 3:39:01 PM
|
update:
mayhem:9w8sp/sx
9w8-4w5-6w7
seems like sxfirst because of strong sx-second. decadent. sensualist . hedonistic approach. e.g.sarah mclachlan or dido .
pulls from: sx/so, to enhance sx. (quote of jase)
 |
|
|
|
MH
Member
12309 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 3:42:28 PM
|
mayhem:9w8sp/sx
your cute when you get aggressive like that |
|
|
|
Glasgow
Member
Germany
5828 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 3:43:19 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by May Hem
Eat, drink, have sex
Often, very often
typical.
|
|
|
|
dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 3:51:09 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
update:
mayhem:9w8sp/sx
9w8-4w5-6w7
seems like sxfirst because of strong sx-second. decadent. sensualist . hedonistic approach. e.g.sarah mclachlan or dido .
pulls from: sx/so, to enhance sx. (quote of jase)
That's pretty much what I've been thinking, minus tritype because I don't have an opinion on that. Didn't you type May Hem as a 8w7 sx/sp before Glasgow? |
|
|
|
Glasgow
Member
Germany
5828 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 3:54:46 PM
|
yeah.
and one week later i said 8w9 . though i forgot to edit my 8w7 typing-post.
( 8w7-mabe too much projection)
|
Edited by - Glasgow on 06 May 2012 4:03:54 PM |
|
|
|
dusty
Member
2897 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 4:05:57 PM
|
| Why don't you think she's an 8 anymore? Actually, why did you ever think she was an 8? |
|
|
|
Glasgow
Member
Germany
5828 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 4:31:58 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dusty
Why don't you think she's an 8 anymore? Actually, why did you ever think she was an 8?
why 8
ive forgotten a lot of things and its intuitive. basically.
i relate to a lot of things she writes and things she told me about herself and her life. and the way she told the things.
she told things about her interests , likes, dislikes, preferences, perspectives and problems etc
so she described herself as an 8 from my point of view. misunderstanding.
and it also felt like i was talking to an 8.
in addition as to her behaviour on board for exemple there were some fights with odyssey and i percieved a certain kind of gut anger which reminded me of myself.
strong gut energy , instinctive type
very intuitive
seem to see more with her gut&heart than with her mind
direct
speaks her mind
honest
unconscious
anger
tough
tweedy girl
she is sometimes very present or she is gone
confrontative
justice freak ( like me)
she loves movies like gladiator or once upon a time in the west because of the justice, truth, honour, revenge, strength, life and death issues (like me)
she is protective
down to earth in a way
she does not overestimate this typing and writing stuff on this board like some head types here
mad (like me)
she gets in contact in a rustic way
devil-may-care
free and easy
wild horse touch
not the nice and obedient girl
etc etc
why not 8 anymore:
e.g
she shows too much vulnerabilty and feelings for an 8 who hides it more
all in all too much of a quite storm
unclear , symbolic language. poses some riddles to test who understood her nonetheless..
too passive-aggressive components
avoiding , deleting posts
stubborn
no self-display
not blowing up herself like 8s
|
Edited by - Glasgow on 06 May 2012 6:24:35 PM |
|
|
|
Glasgow
Member
Germany
5828 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 5:04:30 PM
|
and believe me people if we find something new and appropriate together by sharing points of views and ideas its more important than being right personally. though being right is cool, too.
so normally theres no hysterical typing discussion necessary.
|
|
|
|
Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 5:54:20 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
[quote]Originally posted by Veiled One
interesting. you mean she seems so-first but is a charlie brown --sp/so with a strong so-second?
Social first will be more, well, politically aware. I don't mean national politics, of course. But, even in a discussion board a social dominant will keep an eye over the dynamics of the boards and comment accordingly. Who is on good terms/bad terms on who, what a specific interaction of this boardie and that means, etc.
I see lovemyth as pretty much talking I me and myself like a sp-first with some light interactions overall. My nose is not picking up sx at all, however.
As for the absence of Four: I think a Four component makes anyone one-note obsessive about some chosen emotional reaction which they will elaborate again and again as if to milk more out of that one thing. See eidbuser for a particularly egregious example.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
Edited by - Veiled One on 06 May 2012 5:56:31 PM |
|
|
|
eidbuser
Member
1957 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 5:58:30 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dfgray44
Little-known fact: 9s are doubly 'romantic'. Not in the typical sense of the word. Romance as a removal-from-reality mode. First, there's the initial change-up filter at the mind's eye (as described in Jung's introverted-sensation type), then Phase Two is building an idealized story ('myth/fairytale') around the (pre-distorted) 'object'.
4s, often associated with this kind of inner process, are actually Phase Two romantics, in this schema, imo....meaning that they mainly start and end there, in the 'story' mode, i.e.- they're dealing much more with the real person (whatever that means) as compared to 9s. [Which is by no means to say that 4s don't idealize/project/romanticize people. It's all relative.]
This is where you get, in 9w1s especially, the romance about ideas, seen copiously in Einstein and David Lynch, for example. A romance about a romance.
Jung, himself, is replete with these kind of double-romances, e.g.: human psychological 'energies'/complexes are mythologized (transfigured / distorted, perhaps) into archetypes, and then set in the purely abstract theater of the universalistic Collective Unconscious.....connecting everything to everything. Magic.
The word romance is the right word here because there's a pseudo-libidinal/oral charge to the style of the filtering and the way objects are clasped in the mind and Subconscious. Which also alludes to a subtle way in which the 9's Positive Outlook manifests: that the 'object' is mainly washed of all malevolence, thus giving rise to a (pseudo-sexual) 'closeness'/merging motif.
Or, in some cases, even the malevolence is idealized and fetishized, but, again, this is a distortion and caricaturization (by encasement within the confines of a mental fetish) as a way to set things in an abstract space, devoid of consequences. Again, double-removal/double-romance.
I suppose that's relatable for me.
A phrase that's always stuck with me is that I'm in love with the idea of being in love.
Even though I can be trapped in this idealized version of reality, I'm more often in a state of grief over the fact that reality never matches the romantic ideal. It's as though what I grieve for is not the thing itself, but the loss of the dream, the loss of the imagination, the loss of the possibility of eternal perfection. The crashing down of the tower of babel.
I can then romanticize this romantic despair over the unsatisfactory nature of an existence that never fulfills one's deepest desires.
It's as though pure reality is too much to handle.
We can then see the underlying connection between 6 and 9: the cynic and the idealist. Our idea of heaven is then revealed to be a backlit stage prop. Everything you've believed in and hoped for is revealed to be false.
Now, the question is how to live in a world where all your dreams are shattered.
|
|
|
|
enneathing
Member
4622 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 6:16:37 PM
|
quote:
Social first will be more, well, politically aware.
Social second will also be politically aware. |
|
|
|
sunny
Member
USA
9379 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 6:17:19 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Glasgow
and believe me people if we find something new and appropriate together by sharing points of views and ideas its more important than being right personally. though being right is cool, too.
so normally theres no hysterical typing discussion necessary.
I like this change in you.
-----------------------
|
|
|
|
dfgray44
Member
USA
11062 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2012 : 8:34:38 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by dusty
dfgray, dipping into the murky tritype waters. I didn't see you talk about tritype for the longest time (except a couple times when you brought up your own) and now you've brought it up a few times just recently.
Yeah, it's come into focus more over the last year or two. Got 'proven' to me in relation to people I've known for quite awhile.
For example, the contrast between two sx/sp 4w5s with 9 fixes. One is 6 head-fix, the other is 7. Very plain and simple business to see the difference in their Head styles, and trying to account for it with parental influence (or some other historical influence) doesn't explain it. Not that there couldn't also be yet other factors, but the Thinking modes of these people easily congeals around those two ennea-gestalts.
Also looking at other 9s with the same Heart-fix as me (E4), it's pretty apparent how different the modes are when they have a 6- or 5-fix, as compared to my 7. And famous 9-4s, like Moby or Chris Martin have what shows up for me as a very evident 6-fix.
And an 8-2-5 and 9-2-7 that I know of...the Two stuff is actual Two-ness, not a loose hodge-podge of 'sorta Two-ness'.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
TYPES of the MEMBERS who want to be typed II
