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Lenny306
Member
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jun 2012 : 9:58:27 PM
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| From my experience, and I may be biased when dealing with an unhealthy 4w5 vs a healthy one....I think 4's can resemble ones in the sense of being very judgmental and critical of others, not just themselves. For sure, they are judgmental of themselves too, but also waiters and other persons they encounter. I would also say that when I deteriorate, I also become an unhealthy six, reactive, paranoid, and lashing out. So I also have things to work on. :) I appreciate everyone on here. |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 6:18:47 PM
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Hello Lenny. Welcome to the board  .
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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This Bitter Earth
Member
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 8:36:47 PM
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I don't think being judgmental and [blocked]ly are distinguishing traits here because certainly both types do that very well. Nor do I believe perfectionism per se is the distinctive difference. Hmm.
This bitter earth...yes, can be so cold. |
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Narc
Member
1205 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2012 : 8:28:30 PM
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1's and 4's are diametrically opposed and therefore completely different, complete opposites. Any types at each end of an Enneagram axis are diametrically opposed. Same with 5 and 8, 7 and 1, 8 and 2, 5 and 7, 4 and 2. They're opposites. There may be some common themes in terms of their inner motivations but outwardly they are in stark contrast to one another.
However, types 3,6,9 on the triangle morph and blend into one another more.
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Edited by - Narc on 18 Jun 2012 8:31:43 PM |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2012 : 07:51:15 AM
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Reading Palmer again, she points at several points very interesting about 1s, which have echoes in type 4 :
Advise to 1s :
<< Don't use introspection as an attack against self : being tough and unforgiving about past mistakes. >>
I've noticed several times of using a false introspection (self-consciousness ?) when I meet people not sharing naturally the same quality standards. There is a shame about being too demanding or over-focussed on some details. Instead of naturally asking the person's point of view of whether they agree to comply to these quality standards, there is both a tendency to keep silently or almost aggressively personal control on the standards, and a sort of moral introspection about it which just leads to nowhere but guilt or judgement. This is based on a core belief that right and wrong are absolute and determined by something above and beyond us. While it is actually depending on persons, cultures, backgrounds, desires... are richer than one can imagine.
This tendency to keep anxious control on the procedural and quality can either lead to become tough without any reason, or shamefully self-defeating when actually people really want to try to comply and improve their abilities and discernment, and appreciate teaching and uncompromising strength of my presence about it.
Reading through Palmer's lines, it seems that reality checks (letting other people express themselves about it) is a good direction that needs courage and bring clarity.
A friend of mine, whose type is still impossible for me to be sure of, also told me something similar :
<< I used to go to introspection when people resisted or attacked me, and I soon realized it was usually much better to stand strong in these moments : this introspection was useless and meaningless. >>
Do 1s or 4s here relate to it more or less ?
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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1NFJ
Member
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 12:03:23 PM
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I relate to the first quote more than the second.
When being introspective, my first instinct is to self-chastize when I recall past mistakes. It takes me backing off for a moment, realizing that beating myself up yet again for something that happened years ago isn't going to fix anything, and then I gain a better perspective.
As for your second quote, it's situational as to whether I'll introspect under criticism. If I "just know" I'm right, there's little to none. Otherwise, the degree of introspection depends on the validity of their criticism, and how healthy I am at that time. As for meeting resistance, I generally analyze the other person and the overall situation far more than myself.
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1w9 sp/sx
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This Bitter Earth
Member
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2012 : 6:35:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 1NFJ
I relate to the first quote more than the second.
When being introspective, my first instinct is to self-chastize when I recall past mistakes. It takes me backing off for a moment, realizing that beating myself up yet again for something that happened years ago isn't going to fix anything, and then I gain a better perspective.
As for your second quote, it's situational as to whether I'll introspect under criticism. If I "just know" I'm right, there's little to none. Otherwise, the degree of introspection depends on the validity of their criticism, and how healthy I am at that time. As for meeting resistance, I generally analyze the other person and the overall situation far more than myself.
I agree with this completely. I kick myself a lot upon reflection.
This bitter earth...yes, can be so cold. |
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Ones and Fours
