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blackLight
Member
USA
5877 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:01:22 PM
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5s are said to have a dark side - a part of them that's interested in something grotesque or creepy or morbid or gothic, etc. When I was at Training 1, the teachers all questioned how I could not have a (possibly secret) interest in something like serial killers or insect death or whatever. I know a couple of 4w5s that have this, and I don't doubt that most 5s have some eclectic dark interest. But I got the impression from Russ that I had to have this darkness to fit into the 5 club, which I think is wrong. I believe the basic desire, basic fear and passion are the determining factors of type, not some particular characteristic that commonly emerges as a result of those. It's not that I don't have a dark side in the sense of cynicism or nihilism, I just don't tend to like anything scary or creepy.
So I'm curious about other 5s - do you have a dark interest or hobby? Please say yes or no, and if you're willing to share what it is, please do.
5w4 sx/sp |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:06:33 PM
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Yes. Quite a few actually. But it is not meant to be consumed in public.
Three kinds of people win my love: polyglots, polymaths, polytheists |
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DoorsFan
Member
254 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:12:27 PM
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Yes.
Graveyards fascinate me. I love walking through them and photographing them. There is a old one near my house, where the first settlers of my town rest. It was created next to a creek and is deep in the woods. It got flooded in 72. Most of the graves are still opened and they are currently renovating it.
Gettysburg intrigues me as well, even more so than standard graveyards. I think because in most graveyards everyone is related in that they died, but their end did not all come the same. I do not know how to describe the feeling I get from that place. It is a kind of a sad longing...I swear sometimes when I am there it feels like the battle just happened.
There are other things...
I have always been drawn to things that others find repulsive or strange. I think my initial reaction is to try and find out why and if it is really as strange as they think. It is the investigator in me.
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5w4 sx/sp |
Edited by - DoorsFan on 13 Jul 2004 11:20:22 PM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:19:13 PM
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bear:
Are you sure you really have no secret interests, the revelation of which would make you extremely uncomfortable? Something you know would certainly be negatively judged by society-at-large, excluding perhaps your intimates? Just wondering.
Three kinds of people win my love: polyglots, polymaths, polytheists |
Edited by - Veiled One on 13 Jul 2004 11:20:01 PM |
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blackLight
Member
USA
5877 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:34:49 PM
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posting on the EIDB maybe??
No, and I do wonder about this. Maybe I would have some creepy obsession if some new door inside me was opened. One time I had a psychic reading and she said, "you don't have to worry about having all those dark thoughts about demons and so forth." My first thought about that? "She must be a quack."
I can watch insects. I like graveyards too, but not anywhere near as much as DF. Maybe there are things I don't consider dark that others would?
5w4 sx/sp |
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Dark Angel
Member
Hong Kong
3242 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:35:20 PM
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http://groups.msn.com/Siberia/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=551&all_topics=0
 May be you are not 5 Bear
I have read Interpol, Sherlock Homes, ghost stories, UFO, since I was teenager. To me these are very good brain exercise and a way for me to understand how and why human do what they do and why.
These reading do not do teenager any good, but than it is not silver palter world a 5 perceive anyway. The world is a dangerous place, nobody but you will be able to help. These stories just enforces the 5 image of the world.
Carrie  5w6 SP/SO/SX INTJ |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:40:23 PM
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Now I guess I can type my sister as 5, unknown wing, sp/sx. She is the master of every dark subject imaginable. And I knew a bit of those interests which she seems more comfortable revealing to me than to most people.
Three kinds of people win my love: polyglots, polymaths, polytheists |
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Shapeshifter
Member
1560 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:49:59 PM
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I have to admit I don't find Teddy Bears very "dark." Since I am not really a 5 (at least not until I decide to be one)I have not really been invited to answer this question. My belief, however, is that a general tendency toward nihilism would fill the bill here. Also, do you keep secrets? I don't think they would have to be dark secrets, necessarily, but I think of a tendency to entertain private thoughts and keep secrets as being along this general line. Also, why not just a really intense preoccupation with any head-oriented subject matter? The Enneagram would qualify. I think you are right. This is too narrow a requirement.
JB
9w1 sx
INFX |
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blackLight
Member
USA
5877 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:53:21 PM
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It's not a teddy bear!!! grrrrrrrrrhhhrrghhr
It's just a bear. I even downloaded it as a smiley bear, took it into photoshop and wiped the smile off its face. Real bears are not cute & cuddly creatures. Oh, OK, they're cute sometimes. But they also hibernate a lot and they'd slay my dog in a split second.
5w4 sx/sp |
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jase
Member
USA
3489 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2004 : 11:53:44 PM
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Yes. I've created threads such as "hell" and "fear" to explore some of this. I've always related to The Dark since I could remember. Some of my earliest fascinations were with bats, monsters, vampires, the occult, demonology, human depravity, secret compulsions, all manner of "evil", anything eerie, and whatever was unspoken or hidden. Insert tales of morbid obsession and secret terror here. The darkness was a major part of my aesthetic, and my identity, my way of seeing, or trying to see beyond the ordinary.
The dark also had connotations of "bad" and outsider status which relates to self perception. Though I had friends who were into similar things, I never joined any club, it was personal and I wanted to pioneer my own path of understanding through individual experiment. I consider myself fortunate to have recovered after going too far, yet there are internal reminders which don't fade. You can't summon demons without paying some sort of price.
Of course the dark side of Five has great potential for healthy expression, such as nonattached exploration of forbidden subject matter that uncovers new realms of insight, perspective, knowledge, etc. I believe Fives innovate based on this sort of curiousity. I recently altered my technique of using the i ching, and to me, it was something of a breakthrough in my own understanding.
Unfortunately much of the best dark matter around here seems to have egressed to more welcoming chambers.
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CosmicDust
Member
USA
7300 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 12:01:23 AM
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Ah, more reason to stay in Sixville at the moment...I don't see myself as having particularly dark interests. And who doesn't have some things they'd like to keep to themselves? I do tend to think a fair amount about life and death and the end of the Universe, and the possibility of getting picked off by an asteroid or bomb or otherwise dying at any given moment. As a teenager, disturbing thoughts about the end of the world sparked by conversations about it with a friend (age 16) and nightmares about things thieves and break-ins (age 13) got to me. Sometimes creepy stuff can just have a strong grip on my thinking and emotions for a while, like the several hours of disturbed-ness and preoccupation one day following my reading an article about a case of severe jaundice where a baby suffered brain damage. I was really rattled when, while the creepy visual and auditory imagery was running through my head, some kid came up behind me screaming as he and his friends were running off to play.
I don't know if any of the above is of the type and caliber that's supposedly characteristic of true Fiveness.
__________________________
All reasoning is questionable. But questioning varies in the degree to which it's reasonable. I question whether my questioning is reasonable, and end up reasoning that the entire process is often laughable.
6w5 (or 5w6 with a heavy 6 wing & overpersona), soc/sp/sx, INTP |
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Shapeshifter
Member
1560 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 12:13:23 AM
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quote:
I even downloaded it as a smiley bear, took it into photoshop and wiped the smile off its face.
Now that is DARK behavior!
I love the bear, but I would run away terrified if I met a real one.
CD - The type of preoccupation you describe (which I strongly identify with by the way) seems more like a fear or revulsion of such things than an attraction. Preoccupation can work either way, but isn't the 5ish thing supposed to include an actual enjoyment of such a preoccupation?
JB
9w1 sx
INFX |
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shakti
Member
USA
10719 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 12:23:43 AM
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I guess I am interested in the mystery. I am comfortable with dark imagery...and have gotten more and more comfortable if I see something in my mind's eye that shows me that there's anger constellating of whatever. I think of it as symbolic, a primitive, instinctual wisdom that comes through in dreams and in other ways. I can't say I have actively courted something dark though. I am also of the opinion that any significant interest in pursing something spiritual (not religious) involves working with light, dark and the dance of both...and it hooks up in some way to the instinctual and animal awareness.
Anne |
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Shapeshifter
Member
1560 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 12:29:13 AM
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Anne that was beautiful.
JB
9w1 sx
INFX |
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CosmicDust
Member
USA
7300 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 12:33:33 AM
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That's why I wasn't sure if any of this constituted Fivishness. I do actually find matters of the death of the world rather interesting, and I can contemplate them fairly calmly now. A lot of it has been self-desensitization, though.
That's it. I'm a 6. It's gonna take a lot of convincing, or at the very least a clearing up of this current mood, before I'll see myself as any more likely to be a 5 than a 6. |
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Fubar
Member
23 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 12:34:52 AM
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I have alway liked E. A. Poe, not into gothic culture or literature, except for Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos, Buffy the Vampier Slayer and Angel. I guess that is quite dark. But most horror/slasher movies leave me cold. Science Fiction I like.
But I can see something that most people would be creeped out about and it does not have much effect on me. I will not go out of my way to see something, but I will not avoid it either.
I have alway felt that 4's were into dark side stuff more that other types.
___________________
Fubar 5w4 INTP |
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storm
Member
3786 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 01:02:40 AM
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I'm not a Five, but I've always had a dark side and an interest in the dark, gothic, creepy, crawly, baroque, arabesque, moonlight/fog/rain, as well as a fascination with the realm of the bizarre, strange, esoteric, undescribable, unearthly, unspeakable somethings that go bump in my mind. This dark hue of mind and soul is one of the main reasons why I originally typed myself as a 4w5//5w4.
No, Bear, I don't really believe that you can be devoid of said dark hue of soul and also be a 5w4. Fwiw, you've always struck me as a 9w8. Don't really know why...
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To some it's a six-pack, to me it's a support group...
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Fivegirl
Member
Canada
644 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 01:34:29 AM
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Yes I'm attracted to the seamy underbelly. I have a large collection of books about serial killers which I've been interested in for years. In fact one of my ambitions is to compile a bibliography on serial killers, which I don't think has ever been done. And I'm into the dark side of sexuality too. There isn't much I haven't done in that department.  Death doesn't interest me especially. We die and turn to dust...fini. Ever seen the movie Crash directed by David Kronenberg? That's a 5 movie if ever there was one.
5w6 INTP |
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shakti
Member
USA
10719 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 01:35:18 AM
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JB thanks.  I relate to how you share of yourself and enjoy your posts, and know we share the 9 / 5 dilemma in common.
Anne |
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Crooner
Member
USA
5560 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 01:40:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bear
5s are said to have a dark side - a part of them that's interested in something grotesque or creepy or morbid or gothic, etc. When I was at Training 1, the teachers all questioned how I could not have a (possibly secret) interest in something like serial killers or insect death or whatever.
If this were an absolute criterion, I would have to exclude myself from Club Five as well.
My understanding is that the fear of the Five is specifically Social. If it weren’t for my lack of interpersonal skills, my dread of meeting strangers at cocktail parties, and my awkwardness at making small talk, I would be at a lost to explain my membership in the so-called Fear Triad.
I have no (Sixish) fear for my own physical security, which is shared by some Fives. I have also known Fives who exhibit the Four/Six fears of “abandonment and lack of support.” I can’t identify with any of that either -- as though I were a Five with no wings.
BTW, Bear… “The Bear” is Riso & Hudson’s name for the 8w9, and I did briefly consider that as my true E-Type. When I was young, I got into more fist fights than the average Five. In fact, I’ve sometimes heard that Fives would not get into physical confrontations. With me, I would sooner forfeit my life than to back down. But I always figured that I had a lot of my 8w7soc father in me.
Crooner |
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Abi
Member
USA
5913 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 01:53:08 AM
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| What Jase wrote just about covers it for me. |
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Crooner
Member
USA
5560 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 01:57:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bear
5s are said to have a dark side - a part of them that's interested in something grotesque or creepy or morbid or gothic, etc.
I’ll amend my previous post somewhat. I find Hannibal Lecter absolutely fascinating. I’m fascinated with his laser-like perception. And I’m fascinated with his connection to his instinctual energy. I've sometimes called myself a gut-centered Five.
Crooner
Edit:
Wanna make me happy?
Just tell me that Hannibal Lecter is a Sexual Five like me. |
Edited by - Crooner on 14 Jul 2004 02:07:26 AM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 02:21:43 AM
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Swoons...
Oh my God. Hannibal Lector is the HOTTEST! He is as HOT as Darth Crooner!
(Then she followed his footsteps up the foothills of Esalan, awaiting the cool splash of Esalan fountain where Crooner bathed. She had to peek underwater, OH BELOVED, to fully examine his sculpted body, his piercing erect tool, his delicate feelings. And HEAVENS! The songs of cherubim, the feathers floating by their ruddy cheeks. The rainbows shooting from his piercing sx-first eyes. OH GOD! I am gonna faint, she said to herself. If I could but compose myself, such that he would take notice of me. I feel...so terrified of his strength. Overcame.)
WOW...Apparently I make a good romance author...even with Crooner as the male lead I can dream up a full paragraph in 10 minutes. Now time to go wash myself. 
Three kinds of people win my love: polyglots, polymaths, polytheists |
Edited by - Veiled One on 14 Jul 2004 02:27:48 AM |
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Crooner
Member
USA
5560 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 03:15:20 AM
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Well, VO, at least you're getting
out of that Fourish funk and
exhibiting some Sevenish humor.
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Tigrrr
Member
Austria
375 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 04:21:45 AM
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Dark things?
Yes, most of what Jase said and also Fubar's posting. Dark literature, paintings, movies make up a large part of my favourites collection. I don't know if it's mandatory though.
Edit: I don't even consider these things dark, other people do. I find them normal and familiar. Perhaps a give-away.
~~~~~~~~~~~
T INTJ 5w4 sx/sp |
Edited by - Tigrrr on 14 Jul 2004 05:14:08 AM |
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Leda
Member
1871 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2004 : 04:38:59 AM
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Wouldn't it be funny if Russ was trying to tell you that you weren't a 5w4? (just speculating/imagining because I have trouble understanding why you're a 5w4? but you don't approve of questioning someone's self-typing [another non 5w4-like attitude] so I'd better shut up and let you get on with your spiritual work.)
p.s. for the record i have some (fourish, executed in a fourish way?) morbid interests where i half-scare myself to death or saturate myself with disgust. e.g. my fascination with people who kill themselves that goes to the length of repetitively scouring the internet for every last piece of information or media on it. Or how I gorged myself on reading about murderers and serial killers.. probably minor in comparison to fives. I can think of other things but I don't really like to name them.
 4w5
soc/sp infj |
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the Dark Side of 5
