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Desdemona
Member
USA
15358 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jul 2012 : 7:34:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rickstone
In a grey colored world, not black, not white, just a grey, dull, pathetic and schizoid world.
I feel trapped by that sometimes. It's like an existential hopelessnes.
I need to have some hope, some thrill, some love, some tragedy, idk, something that gets me away of that disociation.
This seems sevenish to me. In any case, we 7's can know the sort of "grey colored world" you talk about, more often at the less healthy end of the spectrum. Several months ago I posted something about relating to the song "Grey Street", where "all the colors mix together, to grey". Needing to have some hope, thrill, love, tragedy that might lift you out of it....that seems very sevenish, imo.
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Also incompetency and weakness, lacking, and no fun. Those are shame related too.
This strikes me as a sevenish sort of shame as well, more than fourish.
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It's vague to put it shortly. Shame scares me, it's a pain in the ass, i don't even like that word, not even in my native lenguage.
This says 7 over 4 very loudly to me, though I'm still not saying that's what you are, just discussing parts of what you've said here.
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I certainly withdraw from people, i'm the quiet one irl, don't know if exceptionally quiet, but i certainly don't relate too much with people.
You really just sound social last to me. Social last 7's can have their moments of being loud and boisterous, and their moments of being quiet and withdrawn. They can even go through phases of life one way, then go through phases the other way, from what I've seen. I don't think a lot of people realize that some 7's can come across as quiet and withdrawn at times. Personally speaking, I become that way when I'm not connecting with anyone around me, I'll withdraw into my own head. It can come when we're "fiving out", too, for whatever reason. I feel that I both integrate and disintegrate to 5, though I've considered the possibility that it's simply the case that when I'm feeling low, I'll want to be alone, and when I'm alone, I'm at my security point and get fivish. If I'm going to my security point at a low level of health, it can look a lot like disintegrating to 5, rather than integrating there.
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I'd say my life was defined by escape and then come back. My need to enter into the chaos of the world is as high as my desire to retire to the woods and hermitize myself.
I'm thirsty for life there's a huge lust and adventurous component in myself. But like i said there's a big component of reservedness too.
I understand what you mean, there are lots of contradictions in my personality too, and I don't feel I fit so neatly into the types (if that isn't obvious by what I've already said). What you said above could probably fit for either 7 or 4.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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Edited by - Desdemona on 25 Jul 2012 7:40:56 PM |
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Desdemona
Member
USA
15358 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2012 : 8:12:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by skyboy
7 : intensity/peak seeking to wash anxiety and negatives mind/emotional states away. Like trying to replace anxiety by stimulation and thinking something better is around the corner. It works to some degree, but finally anxiety can grow worse if constantly avoided leading to states that can look like melancholia
Hmm...I think this is partially correct, but you leave out the fact that 7's do seek intensity to heighten their emotional mood/experience, too, rather than always simply to escape anxiety and negatives. And I wouldn't say our melancholy moods always stem from avoiding anxiety, either. I certainly do have anxiety centered around certain ideas - like the possibility that I'll avoidantly screw around so much in life I'll waste every drop of my talent and potential I ever had; or the idea that I'll never get anything good out of life, or anything I want; the idea of being confined/restricted/controlled....those are biggies for me, and melancholy can result from some of those ideas (not so much the last one), but I wouldn't say melancholy results from my avoiding those ideas and the anxiety building up. It usually stems from some big blow in one of those areas I mentioned. And I do definitely have more anxiety centered around sx issues than anything else, so a huge blow in my sx area will product instant internal panic, leading to a deep melancholy. Also, I'll sometimes feel melancholy without any obvious provocation.
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redefining my past
I insisted on this because I do that a lot. It's like re-creating self-definition by analysing the past. And I remember a painful argumentation with a 7w6 lover (probably a 3 fixer) because she hated my doing this.
When I first read "redefining my past", I took it as pretending the past had been different or something, rather than constantly analyzing it. One of my most annoying personal traits is my obsessive personal analysis, both in the present and the past. I will literally analyze myself and other people crazy, not in a sixish, questioning sort of way, but just over-analyzing emotions and reactions.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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Edited by - Desdemona on 25 Jul 2012 8:21:38 PM |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2012 : 02:45:25 AM
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Ok for SO last. If 4, can't be sp/sx. Only sx/sp.
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I have a hard time with criticism, i always take it too personally.
7s have the hardest time with criticism of all types. It shakes them a lot. It's like they don't expect criticism, like they are not prepared to it. A bit like 3s, 4s see criticism for self-improving to a great degree without being so much destabilized. They criticize themselves a lot and they are quite ok with it. Taking things personally of 4s is not being over reactive to criticism. It is a tendency to feel personally things COMPLETELY unrelated to them as a constant flow when under stress. Like a dark sticky poison.
I still feel you more 7ish. I need time to reply to the rest of your message. Explaining 4 and competition won't be easy.
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2012 : 6:00:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona
You really just sound social last to me. Social last 7's can have their moments of being loud and boisterous, and their moments of being quiet and withdrawn.
I don't remember if you said that in this thread but I just realized many social last, mainly sx/sp look like withdrawn types.
I knew a sx/sp 2 who was very withdrawn. He tested as 5 on a test, thought he was a 9 for a while (he clearly was not), then 6... Actually I thought of 2 after ruling out 4 about him, seeing his ego defences, pride and his feelings under stress penetrate me to try to control me, but his attitude of staying alone in his room most of the time seemed to match a withdrawn type or 6w5. He told that he even forced himself to go out, that it was very difficult for him to meet people... he could spend time alone being "lost in his feelings" like a 4... and he was avoidant about taking part in a group. Yet, he used this strategy to exist socially : getting "power" on a person socially active to introduce him to other people. And then he would start being really 2ish : taking care of people, making them feel comfortable... the "hostess" thing.
Just getting close to a so/sp 2. Sounds like the opposite : a man a social network, socially over-confident, everything but withdrawn.
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2012 : 03:43:30 AM
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Thanks for sharing all this Rickstone.
This seems compatible with type 4.
It is difficult to find one's type anyway. In the first weeks of studying my first book, the only types I could rule out for myself were 8,9,7 and 3. I didn't identify with 4 much because the book described rather a sexual 4. I had a 5ish persona because I was a mathematician and spending time with a maths researcher friend (who is really an sp5 but even being sure of his type took me more than one year). I would identify with 2 a lot. I'm a compulsive rescuer and attracted by the underdogs, hobos, people showing their pain... Only after a while the 4>2 disintegration started to become clearer. And while I'm writing on this board to help some find their type, I clearly over-activate fixation 2 : an exaggerated sense of self-importance in the typing process of the people, while I have the sense the accuracy of the feedback I can give is actually very limited because :
- i only know the E for a about 2 or 3 years, my intuition is not mature
- it's extremely difficult without the presence of the person :
-> observing someone's type often happens in the "empty spaces", when the superego relaxes and the ego can have more spontaneous ways of expression
-> the sensation coming from the person is very important. An intellectual 9 can look like a 5, but with a 5 you SEE the muscle in the brain in real time who is always here and controlling everything. Their intense concentration never relaxes.
About competition I tried to write something yesterday, but my feelings started to explode, my heart beating faster and my mind getting upside down. It's too painful to reveal for the moment. All I can say is it's stubbly in everything, related with disdain and a pain in the ass, like what you say about shame. I never felt in a competition with my close friends. It would destroy our friendship. Competition is hatred, self-hatred and disdain. What I love and need with my friends is especially feeling there is NO competition at all. Otherwise I feel my feelings about them are mixed and this is a torture. It sometimes happen to play a game for fun with a friend like "who's gonna win ?", but this has nothing to do with fixation 4's competition. But I can't say what it really is for the moment. It's too much of a mess. And anyway this would only have a validity for my own experience of it which might not be very helpful if you are a sx4.
I can't give any further feedback for the moment. All the best with your adventure in the enneagram 
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 11:12:38 AM
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For some reason, I thought of 2 about you. I don't feel a clear 7 nor a clear 4.. It's only a possibility, but 2 could match several things you said :
- pride (can be confused with 7's assertiveness especially with a 3 wing or 4's defended self-image)
- less dark than 4, but some real influence from type 4 (DOI)
Have you considered type 2 about you ?
Note: I don't know type 2 well for the moment, I'm just trying
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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skyboy
Member
France
1288 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2012 : 7:33:18 PM
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Ok thanks.
It's just I'm retyping a few people around me from 7, 6 or 4 to 2. Makes me see different sides of type 2, especially the social lasts. So I thought of your thread...
Actually when I'm focused on a type I tend to see it everywhere. Next week, if I spend time on type 3, you'll be a 3, as well as my neighbour and all the people down the street...
4w5 SP/SO (Tritype 451) |
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