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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
 Posted - 23 May 2012 : 4:26:14 PM
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For me it depends on who is getting married.
My God, Im a sucker for two people who have the 'real' thing.
At those weddings I get the burning of tears behind my nose, and no amount of holding my breath, biting my lip, and looking up seems to hold 'em back.
I don't know why I bother, anyway. I should just bring a travel thing of tissues in my purse.
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 05:30:26 AM
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This longing returns again and again, the longing for a soul mate.
Even when all the things in my life are going right, there is this inner depth of my heart that feels untouched, unhappy, because the deepest longing of my heart is being unfulfilled.
Sometimes this longing manifests specifically as the longing for god and transcendent union. But when it becomes the longing for another human being, it takes on a particularly human, precious, vulnerable quality.
I think that so much of the pain, depression, anger, hatred, self-destructiveness, disregard for others, grandiosity, and selfishness that I've experienced are in many ways a response to this deep, painful, unfulfilled longing in my soul.
If only life were so easy that you were destined to meet the person of your dreams at a ripe young age, and be united in a pure matrimony, before all the black grime and tainted filth of life seep in and ruin the picture.
In many ways my romantic longings overlap with my spiritual longings.
In a certain way my longing is fundamentally a longing for redemption and salvation. It is the desire to return to a time before the fall, the desire to return to a time of paradise in union with the divine. It is a desire for the long suffering of the soul to end, and the desire to reunite with the source once again.
I imagine that this salvation could occur through union with an earthly beloved. But another part of me knows this not to be true: my monastic side. This is the part of me that is not deeply touched by any sensory gratification. No matter how happy my body may be, the longings of my soul remain unquenched.
A kindred spirit to quell the loneliness within.
It can be so hard to find all of one's fulfillment and completeness within. The soul has to be ripped away from all the external sources of comfort that are so easily accessible.
There is only to feel and feel again. Let the rift widen and widen until it opens you up to the whole universe. Live life with the heart of a true lover, waiting for the beloved. |
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enforest
Member
1992 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 05:41:19 AM
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Each time you write about being trapped, you give into being trapped. |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 06:08:48 AM
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One night a man was crying Allah! Allah!
His lips grew sweet with praising,
until a cynic said, “So!
I’ve heard you calling out, but have you ever
gotten any response?”
The man had no answer to that.
He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep.
He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls,
in a thick, green foliage.
“Why did you stop praising?” “Because
I’ve never heard anything back.”
“This longing you express
is the return message.”
The grief you cry out from
draws you toward union.
Your pure sadness
that wants help
is the secret cup.
Listen to the moan of a dog for its master.
That whining is the connection.
There are love dogs
no one knows the names of.
Give your life
to be one of them. |
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enforest
Member
1992 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 07:09:35 AM
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If you don't feel trapped then my message doesn't apply. |
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suziesardonic
Member
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 09:58:16 AM
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"In a certain way my longing is fundamentally a longing for redemption and salvation. It is the desire to return to a time before the fall, the desire to return to a time of paradise in union with the divine. It is a desire for the long suffering of the soul to end, and the desire to reunite with the source once again."
You can't go back to this time, there is no way back. You have to go through the grime and muck of this world back to the divine, but it won't be like it was before because you will no longer be the adoring child clasped to the bosom of the beloved. Now it is a mature union, you are separate but one. The divine is the fire that burns but does not consume.
Suzie 4w5 sx/sp/so INTP |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 1:35:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chemical_art
Lake I'm telling you the unicorn exists.
Your faith may shake, and you may think it really is not there, that they were right in saying it was never there, a myth.
I'm telling you they are there.
They want to be seen, and are sad they are invisible to so many. But you will find it, and you will both find unimaginable joy.
just saw this. thank you 
i feel like you just sprinkled red or blue fairy dust on me, and i'm pretty sure i know where you got it from 
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
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enforest
Member
1992 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 7:18:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by enforest
If you don't feel trapped then my message doesn't apply.
For fear of my being misunderstood as someone who takes one step forward and one step back all the time...
If you don't feel trapped in the way you see life and yourself and how you wax poetic about that (your circumstances of loss), if you feel you're truly present to your experience and not just running away from it on some level by controlling it with these overlays of stories about union with the divine and the beloved (that there's no artifice involved), then my message will mean nothing to you and seem irrelevant and there's really no further point to intruding like I have.
I think it's like with my constant analyzing of people's behaviour the minute they do something I don't like. This need to tell myself and the world where the fault lies for it feeling so out of whack, things feeling so chaotic and out of control. I can keep thinking I speak the truth each time (and yes, I do have genuine insights into situations), that I have all the reason to look down upon others and see myself as superior and more aware of what's going on. I can indulge myself all I want and keep judging and rejecting left and right, and if I don't feel trapped by that pattern, then the message I wrote to you doesn't have anything to offer me because really, deep down, I already think I know enough of the truth about life. I'm content with my justifications and explanations, no matter how much grief and lack of lasting satisfaction they might provide me. I've validated my suffering's raison d'ętre and I don't really want it to deal with it yet.
What I've tried to say to you in private eidbuser is that nearly each time you indulge yourself on here with waxing poetic about your existential dilemma, you are surrendering your personal power to your belief that the situation couldn't be otherwise than the suffering you experience. It's not the waxing poetic itself, it's the fact that when I read it I keep getting the impression you are trapped in it with no real way out. You keep describing the walls around you and keep describing what it would be like if only you could leave. But I'm not getting the sense you actually want to take that step forward and lose ties to the worldview of being deficient that you have. You seem to only want to accept the way out your ego has approved of, which is one where the external circumstances of your life need to add up in a miraculous way or else you won't step outside and allow yourself your birth right. I'm asking you to acknowledge that your indulging in it, your feeding it so it crystallizes into something feeling even more real and pressing to attend to (something all-consuming), drains your energy from being able to regain your independence and connection with yourself as the divine. It greatly deters from you regaining that.
I would be curious to see what would happen if you didn't provide yourself with such an outlet, if each time, as much as possible, you'd simply hold back on indulging and see where the focus and energy gets redirected. This can be the hardest thing to not give into that compulsion, but if you have that strength of will, it's a suggestion I would make to you.
As for our communication, I don't understand why it is you never answered me after the message that I wrote off board. If you didn't like it, didn't agree with it or were angry with me, then why not say so to my face? To me, that cheapens the connection because it means I can't show you my fears, my anger or hatred towards you without you running away or just not showing up, and I won't be privy to those things coming from you. It doesn't feel honest to me, and it feels very limiting. How can you heal the wounds, set the record straight if you don't talk about it? Maybe I misunderstood things you said and now I won't know your view on things because you didn't engage me back on the things I wrote. How is that fair to the friendship we have? How is it fair to you (and to me as well) that I don't get to know the real you beyond my idea of you?
You talk about finding true love. But are you ready to get your hands dirty for it? You said I was a worthwhile friend, so why give up on me like this? Why not face me and see where this conflict leads? These are the signs that make me think you love your rut so much.
If you don't want to, ultimately, then I can respect that. It's just what makes two people respect each other more to me is when they can still look each other in the eye in the midst of the [blocked] that's being thrown at each other. I didn't write what I sent you thinking there wouldn't be any backlash. I wrote it because they are honestly the thoughts that come through my mind about you in some moments, and they are how I feel, no matter how negative and potentially distorted and co-opted by my own ego. I was open to you setting the record straight with me if I was truly wrong about something. I wanted to know how you felt at the very least, even if it was that you hated me for not being more loving towards you.
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Edited by - enforest on 24 May 2012 7:31:31 PM |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 7:35:05 PM
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EU-
i know why i dreamt of you in a floral shirt...
you're romeo.
or you seem to think you are, anyway.
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
Edited by - Lake on 24 May 2012 7:40:24 PM |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 8:07:08 PM
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Enforest, you have been cast as Benvolio
Lady Montague. O, where is Romeo? saw you him to-day?
Right glad I am he was not at this fray.
Benvolio. Madam, an hour before the worshipp'd sun
Peer'd forth the golden window of the east,
A troubled mind drave me to walk abroad;
Where, underneath the grove of sycamore
That westward rooteth from the city's side,
So early walking did I see your son:
Towards him I made, but he was ware of me
And stole into the covert of the wood:
I, measuring his affections by my own,
That most are busied when they're most alone,
Pursued my humour not pursuing his,
And gladly shunn'd who gladly fled from me.
Montague. Many a morning hath he there been seen,
With tears augmenting the fresh morning dew.
Adding to clouds more clouds with his deep sighs;
But all so soon as the all-cheering sun
Should in the furthest east begin to draw
The shady curtains from Aurora's bed,
Away from the light steals home my heavy son,
And private in his chamber pens himself,
Shuts up his windows, locks far daylight out
And makes himself an artificial night:
Black and portentous must this humour prove,
Unless good counsel may the cause remove.
Benvolio. My noble uncle, do you know the cause?
Montague. I neither know it nor can learn of him.
Benvolio. Have you importuned him by any means?
(stage directions). [Enter ROMEO]
Benvolio. See, where he comes: so please you, step aside;
I'll know his grievance, or be much denied.
(stage directions). [Exeunt MONTAGUE and LADY MONTAGUE]
Benvolio. Good-morrow, cousin.
Romeo. Is the day so young?
Benvolio. But new struck nine.
Romeo. Ay me! sad hours seem long.
Was that my father that went hence so fast?
Benvolio. It was. What sadness lengthens Romeo's hours?
Romeo. Not having that, which, having, makes them short.
Benvolio. In love?
Romeo. Out—
Benvolio. Of love?
Romeo. Out of her favour, where I am in love.
Benvolio. Alas, that love, so gentle in his view,
Should be so tyrannous and rough in proof!
Romeo. Alas, that love, whose view is muffled still,
Should, without eyes, see pathways to his will!
Where shall we dine? O me! What fray was here?
Yet tell me not, for I have heard it all.
Here's much to do with hate, but more with love.
Why, then, O brawling love! O loving hate!
O any thing, of nothing first create!
O heavy lightness! serious vanity!
Mis-shapen chaos of well-seeming forms!
Feather of lead, bright smoke, cold fire,
sick health!
Still-waking sleep, that is not what it is!
This love feel I, that feel no love in this.
Dost thou not laugh?
Benvolio. No, coz, I rather weep.
Romeo. Good heart, at what?
Benvolio. At thy good heart's oppression.
Romeo. Why, such is love's transgression.
Griefs of mine own lie heavy in my breast,
Which thou wilt propagate, to have it prest
With more of thine: this love that thou hast shown
Doth add more grief to too much of mine own.
Love is a smoke raised with the fume of sighs;
Being purged, a fire sparkling in lovers' eyes;
Being vex'd a sea nourish'd with lovers' tears:
What is it else? a madness most discreet,
A choking gall and a preserving sweet.
Farewell, my coz.
Benvolio. Soft! I will go along;
An if you leave me so, you do me wrong.
Romeo. Tut, I have lost myself; I am not here;
This is not Romeo, he's some other where
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
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enforest
Member
1992 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 8:19:53 PM
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LOL
This line said by Benvolio also made me laugh:
Benvolio. No, coz, I rather weep.
coz=cousin?
I read it first as because. And with that punctuation, he had some attitude! |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 9:32:18 PM
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yes, coz = cousin.
nah, benvolio doesn't have attitude-- unlike you, sassyscarf mcgee.
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
Edited by - Lake on 24 May 2012 9:40:58 PM |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 12:13:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lake
EU-
i know why i dreamt of you in a floral shirt...
you're romeo.
or you seem to think you are, anyway.
am i? in what way do you mean?
maybe you're the one who thinks i'm romeo |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 12:27:18 AM
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enforest,
don't have much time to write, but there are two reasons why i didn't respond to you:
1) you seemed overly self-righteous and preachy, with an overly self-assured attitude where you believed you understood exactly where I was coming from, while being misattuned in a major way.
2) it seems that your own ego-game is to try to get attention out of interpersonal conflicts, and that in some way you are purposely being aggressively misattuned to create a heated situation in which you can be reassured of a connection, or that you are still loved. and i didn't feel like playing that game. |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 01:37:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
maybe you're the one who thinks i'm romeo
no. you're not my type romantically, actually (and i'm not yours).
read the shakespeare i posted.
take a step back, please.
it's so refreshing when you take a step back.
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
Edited by - Lake on 25 May 2012 01:59:30 AM |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 01:49:11 AM
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for as much as you say you want connection, EU, you're a hard guy to get to know, btw.
go easy on us mere mortals, eh?
we try.
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
Edited by - Lake on 25 May 2012 02:03:25 AM |
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Lake
Member
7179 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 02:17:45 AM
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EU-
quote:
"makes himself an artificial night"
stands out for me, as does:
quote:
"Romeo. ...Dost thou not laugh?
Benvolio. No, coz, I rather weep.
Romeo. Good heart, at what?
Benvolio. At thy good heart's oppression."
though his whole mindset, expression, and the interaction between him and benvolio (which could be anyone here who cares about you and seeks to help you, not just enforest), rings true...
*it's not about finding yourself, it's about realizing who you've been all along. |
Edited by - Lake on 25 May 2012 02:29:39 AM |
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enforest
Member
1992 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 02:43:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by eidbuser
enforest,
don't have much time to write, but there are two reasons why i didn't respond to you:
1) you seemed overly self-righteous and preachy, with an overly self-assured attitude where you believed you understood exactly where I was coming from, while being misattuned in a major way.
2) it seems that your own ego-game is to try to get attention out of interpersonal conflicts, and that in some way you are purposely being aggressively misattuned to create a heated situation in which you can be reassured of a connection, or that you are still loved. and i didn't feel like playing that game.
Thanks for expressing this. I'm glad to hear it all.
I don't want to defend myself regarding the things you say. There's so much that could be said and my mind is full of ideas and angles to look at this from, but ultimately I think the base message or fact is that I don't want to continue investing in a friendship with you. This conflict actually comes as an eye-opener (or gut-opener), I think. And I'm grateful for that. I think some part of me unconsciously guided me towards having things end up this way. I'd like to put my trust in that force.
I think I have a lot to learn about human relationships because I'm always getting into challenging and messy situations. I actually feel excited somehow about the idea of getting into conflicts like these again, though. I usually dread unresolvable situations, but this time I want to embrace it. The burden of fault and responsibility I usually feel isn't as heavy this time. I think this was the most honesty we could muster.
Anyway, that's all I have to say. Enjoy yourself. |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 09:18:39 AM
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Interesting turn of events. I don't mind talking to you when you aren't being so presumptuous. It seems like on some level your heart is in the right place and that you're trying to help me from what seems like an accurate perspective. But when you act insensitively and then demand a response, it feels very manipulative to me.
I feel present to my experience, and that I'm not running away from it. I'm already trapped, and when I am with it or express it, it frees me up. It may not look like it to an outside observer, but it often leads me into a deeper place of letting go. I feel more free these days than I ever have been in my life.
Certain thing you wrote me had an effect on me. It hurt, and made me look at myself and question things about my self. But it didn't feel safe or comfortable to talk about these sensitive issues with you when on some level it feels that you're more interested in yourself, even though on the surface it appears that you're trying to be of help to me.
It makes me somewhat sad and confused that you wouldn't want to speak to me anymore. I respect your decision; but I also feel open to talking if you ever want.
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thomg
Member
1197 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 7:46:51 PM
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This thread strikes me as very non-sx-first, apart from EU.
And 9w1 central.
Btw, EU, agreed about your 5 head fix. |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 9:30:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomg
Btw, EU, agreed about your 5 head fix.
I'm curious, what is it that created an alteration in your perspective? |
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thomg
Member
1197 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 11:18:47 PM
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From what I know of you, you fit the classical triple withdrawn, but had always wondered about your reactivity. But 6 connection, sx/sp and 4 fix all explain that. That's all obvious.
Not sure what tipped me over ... I think it's gestalty ... triple withdrawn more than triple doubt. And, thinking of the whole history of your posting on the board, there is, even if it's head-fix last, a strong desire to know, analyse and be open to knowing without being so quick on the epistemological trigger as a 6 fix. You have more patience re knowledge, being in it for the long haul as a value, as well as a tool.
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enforest
Member
1992 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 03:41:10 AM
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I'll answer you tomorrow (or later today, since it's early morning here), eidbuser. I got back from the bar a few hours ago and realized that post I had been working on got eaten up by my browser. Should have saved it. I'm just too hungry and tired to concentrate on the topic like I want to right now. |
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dusty
Member
2934 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 10:47:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thomg
This thread strikes me as very non-sx-first, apart from EU.
And 9w1 central.
Btw, EU, agreed about your 5 head fix.
I agree that my idea of devotion doesn't have to do with sx (and I never thought that it did) but it's also really not 9ish. I just thought that it was for superficial reasons.
But maybe you haven't read most of the stuff I've deleted; are you talking about devotion or what I've had to say about it? |
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eidbuser
Member
1960 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2012 : 6:28:50 PM
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Lake, I resonate with that a lot, actually. Apparently I am a lot like Romeo. That whole passage seems like it could apply to me, especially the part that you quoted:
quote:
Montague. Many a morning hath he there been seen,
With tears augmenting the fresh morning dew.
Adding to clouds more clouds with his deep sighs;
But all so soon as the all-cheering sun
Should in the furthest east begin to draw
The shady curtains from Aurora's bed,
Away from the light steals home my heavy son,
And private in his chamber pens himself,
Shuts up his windows, locks far daylight out
And makes himself an artificial night:
Black and portentous must this humour prove,
Unless good counsel may the cause remove.
Benvolio. My noble uncle, do you know the cause?
Montague. I neither know it nor can learn of him.
how am I a hard guy to get to know? |
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9s and devotion
