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 SP 6w5 vs. SP 1w9

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
LeoDaVinci Posted - 23 Feb 2012 : 3:26:06 PM
Hi to all! I'm reconsidering my e-type.
For a lot of time I thought being a 4w5/5w4/5w6, then I was quite sure about 6w5 and now I'm considering 1w9. I rule out definitely as main type 2-3-7-8-9.
I don't know if I am SP/SX or SP/SO but for sure SP first, and I read SP 1 can be mistyped as 6.
What are the really strong difference between SP 6w5 and SP 1w9?
Thanks.

25   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
pinecone Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 9:40:18 PM
Yeah, I think she was trying to inure herself. Before that, she spent a lot of time in graveyards; she was obsessed with embalming methods for a while. I still wouldn't say she's entirely recovered ... still lives at home, still too afraid to explore the big city 20 minutes from her hometown. She pretty much meets people online and then forces them to spend every waking hour with her (at her mom's house).
Corruption Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 7:34:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by pinecone

Corruption,
My mom's best friend's daughter is an extreme sp-6 who was agoraphobic for about 7 years. She dropped out of high school and spent her teens and early 20's in her mom's living room (watching horror movies, no less)



Well the ironic thing is most horror films aren't nearly as scary compared to some of the more extreme happenings of my imagination. I wonder whether the movies made her more agoraphobic but when she did finally go out everything seemed harmless by comparison.
pinecone Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 04:27:09 AM
Corruption,
My mom's best friend's daughter is an extreme sp-6 who was agoraphobic for about 7 years. She dropped out of high school and spent her teens and early 20's in her mom's living room (watching horror movies, no less)
Stormy Posted - 25 Feb 2012 : 04:19:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Corruption

I don't think exhaustion means self-forgetting either. The thing is there seems to be an impression that sixes always become more over-worked and 'hyper' with increasing unhealth, whether or not it's due to disintegrating to three. I and another six I know have experienced the opposite problem, but it depends on the type of stress involved. It was chronic lethargy and inability to assert oneself I was associating with unhealthy nine, though whether this counts as disintegrating to nine is another matter.


Disintegration to E9 involves self-forgetting.

quote:
Originally posted by Corruption

I'd just inferred 'overwhelming' from the idea that E9 finds the universe puts up a lot of 'resistance' to them asserting themselves. I'd be interested to know what you mean by E9 finding the universe 'incidental', which sounds interesting either way.


E9s find the universe incidental in the sense that nothing seems essential or worth staying present with. As such, they don't fully engage with it - they have an attitude of "I can take it or leave it; it's all the same to me".

- [Stormy]
Desdemona Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 11:20:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by Sister_Six

I feel like the forgotten children on this discussion board .



Like who are the forgotten children?


Like she is the forgotten children.

- [Stormy]



Why?


7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
Corruption Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 7:58:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by Corruption

Sixes can have unhealthy nine traits under stress - anxiety can actually be exhausting. It also ties in with what I was saying above about belief in a 'malevolent' universe, which can be a short step to an 'overwhelming' universe (E9).


Exhaustion isn't necessarily self-forgetting; the E9 universe isn't overwhelming, but incidental.

- [Stormy]



I don't think exhaustion means self-forgetting either. The thing is there seems to be an impression that sixes always become more over-worked and 'hyper' with increasing unhealth, whether or not it's due to disintegrating to three. I and another six I know have experienced the opposite problem, but it depends on the type of stress involved. It was chronic lethargy and inability to assert oneself I was associating with unhealthy nine, though whether this counts as disintegrating to nine is another matter.

I'd just inferred 'overwhelming' from the idea that E9 finds the universe puts up a lot of 'resistance' to them asserting themselves. I'd be interested to know what you mean by E9 finding the universe 'incidental', which sounds interesting either way.
Corruption Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 7:45:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by skyboy

quote:
Originally posted by Corruption
Hypochondria is an example of a form of paranoia that is nothing to do with other people, and has a strong correlation to sp-6, though I'm not saying it applies to all of that sub-type.



Well seen. Do you relate agoraphobia to SP6 as well ?
(just I've got a 6w5 friend who is both of them, I was wondering...)



It would certainly make sense to me if there was a correlation between sp-6 and agoraphobia, though I haven't known anyone with that condition.
Stormy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 5:58:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by Sister_Six

I feel like the forgotten children on this discussion board .



Like who are the forgotten children?


Like she is the forgotten children.

- [Stormy]
Desdemona Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 5:47:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sister_Six

I feel like the forgotten children on this discussion board .



Like who are the forgotten children?


7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
Rich Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 3:15:49 PM
[quote]Originally posted by BADMAN

a 6w5 @ 3 will tend to glorify themselves as the defenders of something 'true' and 'real'...i.e. the constitution or the 'true rock n roll' or the 'forgotten children' or a nationality etc... ( end quote )

When I go to 6W5 ( 6W7 would be lots more fun ), I turn anti-authoritarian, and warn others about abuses of power, and how the powers that be have rigged the system to give themselves a free pass....
/

ISTJ & SP-3W4, DISC:High-DSC
Serious-Sensitive-Inventive-Leisurely Styles
HER:SP-2W1 & ISFJ; Self Sacrificing-Dramatic-Conscientious-Aggressive styles
My philosophy of life: Love will get you through.
I learned to dissemble at an early age.
Stormy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 1:50:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer

So advances in science does not involve some form of *higher* purpose?


Not necessarily; it depends what's motivating the advances e.g. social betterment, personal curiosity, gaining a national advantage, etc.

- [Stormy]
randy mizer Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 1:17:48 PM
So advances in science does not involve some form of *higher* purpose? I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.
Stormy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 1:08:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer

quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer

I've noticed plenty of 6w5's to display enthusiastic idealism in science. Whether that be writing/reading science fiction works and/or reading material concerning near future advances in technology or scientific breakthroughs and enthusiastically proclaiming this to others, it seems to be laden with idealism.


How so? It sounds like mere zeal.


Zeal, enthusiasm... what's the difference?


Idealism involves a noble or "higher" purpose.

- [Stormy]
randy mizer Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 1:06:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stormy

quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer

I've noticed plenty of 6w5's to display enthusiastic idealism in science. Whether that be writing/reading science fiction works and/or reading material concerning near future advances in technology or scientific breakthroughs and enthusiastically proclaiming this to others, it seems to be laden with idealism.


How so? It sounds like mere zeal.

- [Stormy]



Zeal, enthusiasm... what's the difference?
Stormy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:59:46 PM
quote:
Originally posted by randy mizer

I've noticed plenty of 6w5's to display enthusiastic idealism in science. Whether that be writing/reading science fiction works and/or reading material concerning near future advances in technology or scientific breakthroughs and enthusiastically proclaiming this to others, it seems to be laden with idealism.


How so? It sounds like mere zeal.

- [Stormy]
skyboy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:45:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Corruption
Hypochondria is an example of a form of paranoia that is nothing to do with other people, and has a strong correlation to sp-6, though I'm not saying it applies to all of that sub-type.



Well seen. Do you relate agoraphobia to SP6 as well ?
(just I've got a 6w5 friend who is both of them, I was wondering...)

quote:
I've noticed plenty of 6w5's to display enthusiastic idealism in science. Whether that be writing/reading science fiction works and/or reading material concerning near future advances in technology or scientific breakthroughs and enthusiastically proclaiming this to others, it seems to be laden with idealism.


Yep, so did I . And some 5w6 too btw.
randy mizer Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:44:40 PM
I've noticed plenty of 6w5's to display enthusiastic idealism in science. Whether that be writing/reading science fiction works and/or reading material concerning near future advances in technology or scientific breakthroughs and enthusiastically proclaiming this to others, it seems to be laden with idealism.
Desdemona Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:44:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Timo84

@Desdemona: Actually Sixes might be more aware of their anger than 1s. If you say to a one "why are you so angry" there is a good chance he/she will say that she is not angry at all and does not know what I'm talking about. That's all what I wanted to say. I personally don't know of any Sixes who aren't aware of their anger when they are angry. But for whatever reason, it seems, no matter what I write you have to disagree either way..



I'm not disagreeing just for the hell of it, maybe we just have very different interpretations of the enneagram. I think you don't always understand my point, though, since you've misinterpreted what I was saying at least once today.

anyway, yes, I agree that 6's are usually more aware of their anger. Was just thinking of my sp 6 mom who, when we ask why she's so angry will look at us incredulously and insist she's not angry. But she's definitely a 6, with 1 and 2 fixes. The other 3 I was thinking of do know they're angry.


7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
Stormy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:38:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Corruption

Sixes can have unhealthy nine traits under stress - anxiety can actually be exhausting. It also ties in with what I was saying above about belief in a 'malevolent' universe, which can be a short step to an 'overwhelming' universe (E9).


Exhaustion isn't necessarily self-forgetting; the E9 universe isn't overwhelming, but incidental.

- [Stormy]
Corruption Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:25:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Timo84

clearly no 1 from what you describe. I would take closer look if the points of integration(9) and disintegration(3) of the 6 fit with you. If you have this quality of the Nine when you become more relaxed and yourself and like staying at home and become kinda slow (9) and less productive as you think you should be (3) it points to the 6.
If you though get very energetic, powerful and strong (8) when you feel more like yourself and safe or get a bit foolish and kind of manic (7) when you feel unsecure it is more pointing to the 5.
Also, if you were a five there is constantly a sense of "I am not being noticed by others" which might not bother you that much, given you're in the SP-subtype.



I don't think everything should hang on fixed points of integration/disintegration or at least set ideas about the how and why, I think that's just R&H theory. Sixes can have unhealthy nine traits under stress - anxiety can actually be exhausting. It also ties in with what I was saying above about belief in a 'malevolent' universe, which can be a short step to an 'overwhelming' universe (E9).
Stormy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:18:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BADMAN

both 6w5s and 1w9s are idealists.


About the closest E6 gets to idealism is metaphysical.

- [Stormy]
Timo84 Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:14:09 PM
@Desdemona: Actually Sixes might be more aware of their anger than 1s. If you say to a one "why are you so angry" there is a good chance he/she will say that she is not angry at all and does not know what I'm talking about. That's all what I wanted to say. I personally don't know of any Sixes who aren't aware of their anger when they are angry. But for whatever reason, it seems, no matter what I write you have to disagree either way..
Corruption Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 12:07:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BADMAN

both 6w5s and 1w9s are idealists.

but the 6w5 idealism has a paranoid feature to it.



Yes+ to the first bit, and shall reflect on the 2nd bit.

It is worth mentioning that 6 paranoia is NOT always in relation to other people, though for soc-first that's likely the main concern. Six paranoia can also manifest as a general feeling that the universe at large is manevolent or trickster-like (watch your back), with humans maybe just puppets in the process.

Hypochondria is an example of a form of paranoia that is nothing to do with other people, and has a strong correlation to sp-6, though I'm not saying it applies to all of that sub-type.
Desdemona Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 11:59:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Timo84
If you find people telling you "what's wrong!? why are you so angry!?" when in fact you don't notice that you are angry and it happens to you all the time, then you are defintely a 1.



No, there are sp 6's who are like this. I know at least 2 of them. EDIT: Make that 3. EDIT: No, make that 4. There are actually a lot of sp 6's who can seem angry. Also, I think 1's and 8's are often confused.


7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
skyboy Posted - 24 Feb 2012 : 03:39:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Timo84

Well I (5w6) know also doubt. But the trick is to feel into the passion of all the types you consider and look from there. Let's say I feel into the passion of doubt and get more involved into it, look where I can find it in my life and how it is CENTRAL in my perception of the world, I instantly know that it isn't really fitting. It may be based on fear, as is the passion of "avarice" or "holding back" (5) but it is then when I feel into it obvious that avarice is central for me. This thinking "I have little" or "I have nothing" and not wanting to give and thinking that nothing is coming from the outside that is nourishing your percieved dry and empty inside. That is just more a five issue. Sixes are a bit different. They are more into doubting what is right and what is real. Don't really know what something means, what peoples agendas are when they talk to them, everything. And they are more into worry what might happen, especially when you are SP-6 you are more visible anxious. Fives are more into hiding feelings than Sixes, although they have intense feelings inside.



Interesting. I agree. I'll give my own take :

The 5w6 is a doubter, but feels it belongs to his mind to answer to everything. Uncertainty is avoided as well, like in type 6, and creates an inner intense activity of the mind at capturing everything, rethinking everything, learning everything, explaining/understanding everything inside. Unknowing is avoided. 5s feel that only them can know : no-one can provide them support. There is inner programming that suggests that they can only use their own mind for living. Not much a self-esteem question, but more a programming of the mind as being separate and not tied to other's.

6w5 is more doubting others, because he feels more tied to others. The doubting involves a kind of projection. 5w6 feels separated, and his doubting process is purely internalized. It makes his mind over-work in capturing/explaining reality. That's why this type is called "Problem solver". The mind tends to be constantly in a "problem solving mode".

5 is pushed to avarice/insularity by his fixation. 6 is pushed to paranoia by his fixation.

I love this page describing the 9 fixations : http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/history.asp

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