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Larceny
Member

Niger
1562 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  7:26:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Larceny's Homepage  Reply with Quote
tell me everything you know about them


________________________
7w8/8w7 sx/sp

denkdan
Member

297 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  02:41:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit denkdan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i know a few 3w4's, both are very narcissitic, lack empathy for others, image problems and two-faced.. i find this type to be more pure 3'ish in their ways and behaviors then a 3w2 (if that makes sense).. pretty easy to identify in my opinion. named "The Professional", we all know the type lol.


-----

8w9
ISTP
sp/so

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pork
Member

6203 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  04:01:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit pork's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Larceny: tell me everything you know about them

In my experience, 3w4 seems to tend more toward the "Fantasy" extreme of the "Overactive/Fantasy" dichotomy of E3. (Duh.)

Let me try something else. How about this? "Dry ice leaves me cold."

That's actually my explanation for why I'm usually not romantically attracted to 3w4's.

^(oo)^

4w3, SP/SX, INFJ
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Rich
Member

USA
4639 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  05:49:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Rich's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We are neither as bad as other people say, or as good as we think ourselves to be.... /

Rich- below is part of me, but not all of me
ISTJ/3W4 SP-SO-SX High-DSC
Serious-Inventive-Sensitive styles
My philosophy of life: Love will get you through.
Being born bourgeois, I learned to dissemble at an early age.
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  1:31:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denkdan

i know a few 3w4's, both are very narcissitic, lack empathy for others, image problems and two-faced.. i find this type to be more pure 3'ish in their ways and behaviors then a 3w2 (if that makes sense).. pretty easy to identify in my opinion. named "The Professional", we all know the type lol.


-----

8w9
ISTP
sp/so

-----



Hmm. Well, I don't think of myself as narcissistic, lacking in empathy OR two faced. Those sound like characteristics of an unhealthy person (of almost any type). I do have a "professional" career..but most who meet me outside of work are surprised when they find out what I do, and I prefer that it doesn't come up at all in my social/personal life.

I am actually very loyal. I have a few close friends that I have had for a very long time and I value those friendships highly. I do have the three characteristic of sometimes being less than honest with myself (and, by extension, others) because I don't want to disappoint people (or, in less healthy states, because I want their acceptance).

I would say the interpersonal problems I've had that can be attributed to my "type" are as follows: I am often disappointed in people. I have very high standards for myself and others in terms of appropriate or acceptable behavior. I can be judgmental. I am often impatient with other's "slowness". I have a hard time trusting people or making myself vulnerable in any real way. For a while I thought I was an eight because I am very aggressive and struggle with anger at times, but I have too much empathy and am too emotional to be an 8. If I hurt someone or if someone hurts me, it brings me down for a long time.

In recent years, I've developed a tendency to withdraw to recharge. When I was younger I looked outward for my emotional sustenance. But I found that I too easily let myself be carried along by the expectations of others and now need a lot of quiet contemplative time to figure out what I really need, what is really important to me, etc. A regular practice of meditation helps with that.

My main goal in life is to be honest with myself and others and to allow others to be honest with me. I think this is a central challenge for a 3.

Leigh
3w4 sx/so/sp

Edited by - Cyborg on 04 Aug 2005 2:05:15 PM
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Estranged Protractor
Member

USA
3006 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  1:43:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Estranged Protractor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Irritatingly attractive. A 3w4 who was my first crush recently acquired a hyphenated last name.

The character of Severus Snape in Harry Potter.

Can be as ruthless as neurotic 7w8s, but focus their ruthlessness on specific others (vs whoever's in the way).
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Estranged Protractor
Member

USA
3006 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  1:44:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Estranged Protractor's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I currently think that 3s of all types are inately empathetic toward others. What they aren't is sympathetic. They can feel your pain, but they won't necessarily do anything about it (or may leverage that pain against you).
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BlackholeSon
Member

18 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  2:20:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit BlackholeSon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My sister is a 3w4 and she seems subtly different than the 3w2s I've met. 3w2 tpes seem to hang around people until an opening occurs where the other person reveals their need and the 3w2 is there. This is the two influence. But 3w4, though they definetly boast and try to impress through career-oriented accomplishments, aren't as desperate and wanting as the w2 type. 3w4s seem to be more professional and independent. The four wing also gives more reflective energy it seems.
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Hompo
Member

3195 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  2:44:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hompo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The desire to reach out and connect is stronger with the 2 wing. 3w4's come off as more self-contained. Leigh?
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  4:12:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by entre1

It's like John Edwards vs Condi Rice

Edwards has that overconnecting vibe that borders on creepy...Rice is more aloof.



I often get described as aloof and self assured. And I get a lot of satisfaction out of accomplishing things without having to ask for help.

For example, in a real estate market that is highly competitive for buyers I recently bought my first house (beating out 18 other offers), and I was really proud to have done it wihtout any financial help or guidance from friends or family.

It wasn't until later that I realized that was kind of sad and I wished I had shared the whole experience more.

I think the "I don't need anybody" 3 thing is a defense...if we get too close we might get rejected.

Fear of rejection or abandonment are big drivers for me.

Leigh
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16709 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  6:58:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
3w4's are very independent. Those I know are quite intense. They feel things very strongly, but try to guard against their feelings, like if anyone knows how emotional they really are deep down, it will be the end of them. The 3w4's I know form very strong attachments, yet it takes alot for them to let people see that. They pretend to not need anyone.

7w6 Sx/So/Sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16709 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  7:02:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
When she had to she could smile and laugh and be exceedingly charming, but she really wasn't all that interested in people, as it turned out.

Yeah, that rings true in my experience. 3w4's want to be accepted, and to be seen in the way they're trying to come across, but when it comes down to it, they don't have the human interest of threes with a 2 wing. Of course, the two 3w4's I know best are social lasters. I suspect that makes a huge difference.

7w6 Sx/So/Sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  7:05:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EllieAgain
[br She gave the impression of having this barrier drawn around herself, and if you were sufficiently complimentary and positive toward her, she would lower the barrier and let you "enjoy her company", and as soon as you got critical or negative she just kicked you out and threw the barrier back up without a second thought. There were plenty of people we both knew that eventually began to find her aloofness annoying, and it was pretty obvious that they did -- she just ignored them completely. They didn't "understand" her (she said this frequently), so she could simply forget them.

When we got into the argument that ultimately ended the friendship she turned the "you don't understand me" line on ME, and then simply cut off contact. Just like that.





This is very interesting to me. I have never been able to cut people off without another thought. I find the end of relationships very painful and often hold onto relationships with people even after thay have betrayed my trust.

I do understand that I am not too skilled at maintaining relationships sometimes...I don't do a good job of keeping in touch, etc...it has to do with a fear of being rejected and a need to feel self sufficient.

Style is pretty important to me...I like to dress well and pay a lot of attention to my "feng shui"...I am not a very creative person in other ways so it is through my personal style that I can express creativity.

Im sx/so/sp so maybe I am less self contained than other 3s...I often wish for more intimacy than I have in my relationships (never sure how to get there though...)

Leigh
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16709 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  10:11:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyborg
This is very interesting to me. I have never been able to cut people off without another thought. I find the end of relationships very painful and often hold onto relationships with people even after thay have betrayed my trust.

Hi Leigh,

This sounds just like me. I think it's a difference between sexual firsts and self-pres. My boyfriend and I were just discussing this yesterday. He's a self-pres 9 - much more dependent than I am overall, yet he can cut people off and never look back. I can't. I find it very difficult to permanently sever deep connections, and will not do so unless I am absolutely forced to.

7w6 Sx/So/Sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
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Dolce
Member

1767 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  10:53:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Dolce's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't really expect a 3 to show it if they were very hurt or upset

The ones I have known do show it, but very indirectly...they can be quite mean and sarcasttic when hurt...
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Dolce
Member

1767 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  11:06:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Dolce's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think that is true. I'm sp first [long story] and I could cut people out no problem.



That was much easier when I was younger...it seems to get harder and harder to do as I get older....why?
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Dolce
Member

1767 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  11:09:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Dolce's Homepage  Reply with Quote
very interesting...
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  11:37:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Desdemona

quote:
Originally posted by Cyborg
This is very interesting to me. I have never been able to cut people off without another thought. I find the end of relationships very painful and often hold onto relationships with people even after thay have betrayed my trust.

Hi Leigh,

This sounds just like me. I think it's a difference between sexual firsts and self-pres. My boyfriend and I were just discussing this yesterday. He's a self-pres 9 - much more dependent than I am overall, yet he can cut people off and never look back. I can't. I find it very difficult to permanently sever deep connections, and will not do so unless I am absolutely forced to.

7w6 Sx/So/Sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style



Yes, I meant to mention that. I do think it's the sx first that keeps me pushing for more intimacy (in all my relationships, even friendships) and refusing to let go of relationships that really aren't working. My ex boyfriend was sp first and he seemed completely indifferent to whether people remained in his life or not...I say "seemed", I think his iternal landscape was quite different (he's a 5, I never got to be in his head at all!)

I have no problem letting people know I'm hurt, but often my first manifestation of the hurt is anger, and yes, sarcasm. I've really worked on this and am better at identifying my feelings and trying not to lash out. Inside I often feel that I can't allow myself to rely on anyone. I always assumed this had to do with my dad leaving when I was 13...but now that I've discovered the Enneagram, I think my deep fear of abandonment could be my 3ness.

I'm still on the fence as to whether I'm a 3 or an 8 though.

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Hompo
Member

3195 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  12:44:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hompo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The 3w4's I know aren't too interested in emotional connection. Career comes first.

Edited by - Hompo on 05 Aug 2005 12:44:19 AM
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  7:26:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hompo

The 3w4's I know aren't too interested in emotional connection. Career comes first.



Are they sx first? My emotional connections are much more important to me than my careeer. My mental energy is spent on my relationships, those are what I think about in my leisure time, before I go to bed and when I wake up. I don't think I'm very good at developing emotional connections (except for with my son), but I certainly want to.

At times, my career has been demanding, but I have purposefully made choices that leave me the space to have the rest of my life. I can find comfort in work when I need it...but I'd rather find it in connections with others.

Any other types want to give me tips on how to connect emotionally?

Sigh.

Leigh
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Hompo
Member

3195 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2005 :  9:15:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hompo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sexual first, perhaps. People are sometimes shocked when they find out their emotional connection to these 3w4's are not what they thought.

"Any other types want to give me tips on how to connect emotionally?"

Are you approaching emotional connections the way you would a career goal--find tested and true methods, develop the skills that go along with it, apply them to the field, and adjust through trial and error?

Edited by - Hompo on 05 Aug 2005 9:28:15 PM
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2005 :  12:28:42 AM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hompo

Are you approaching emotional connections the way you would a career goal--find tested and true methods, develop the skills that go along with it, apply them to the field, and adjust through trial and error?



That makes me laugh! If you only knew me. Um, no. I don't seem to have any control over how I approach emotional connections. I have no skills. I can't seem to help acting on my feelings or expressing my feelings. OK, sometimes when I'm hurt I shut down. That's the extent of my control. But I don't think that's healthy and I would like to develop the "skill" of remaining open.

The extent of my "calculatedness" in emotional relationships is that I try to make myself available for them...which means showing up places when I don't feel like it a lot. I'm 43, so meeting people and making them part of my life takes more effort than it did in College and when I was younger.

"People are sometimes shocked to find that there emotional connections to these 3w4's are not what they thought". No, it seems like I'm usually on the other side of that coin. And I have never, ever had any feedback that would indicate others had that experience with me.

Maybe I need to explore the possibility that I'm a 3w2.
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Cyborg
Member

USA
59 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2005 :  12:35:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Cyborg's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hompo
[Are you approaching emotional connections the way you would a career goal--find tested and true methods, develop the skills that go along with it, apply them to the field, and adjust through trial and error?



Also, I don't really have "career goals"...never did. I have never been a goal setter at all. I have always just gravitated towards what has interested me at the time...and then abandoned it without looking back when I got bored. (I'm on my 5th career) But I have always wanted to be the best at whatever I was involved in...it's not about acheiving a certain status though, I just have a need to do things well.

And I'm pretty competitive and aggressive in sports. But I really don't know if I'm a 3 or it's my sx variant needing to be top female in the pride. My friend in my bike club pointed out to me that I can never let a woman be fater than me. I don't have the same issue with men.

Leigh
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Desdemona
Member

USA
16709 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2005 :  1:06:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Desdemona's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by entre1
Other aggressive types like 7s and 8s are much more prone to gluttony/excess and shooting themselves in the foot saying something controversial/politically incorrect...all little things which hinder the singlemindedness required to stay on top.


Hmm. Two of the people I'm typing 3w4 are pretty darn controversial at times.

7w6 Sx/So/Sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Idiosyncratic Style
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Larceny
Member

Niger
1562 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2005 :  1:10:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Larceny's Homepage  Reply with Quote
randy moss

terrell owens

two most controversial football players right now. both are 3s
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Larceny
Member

Niger
1562 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2005 :  1:52:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Larceny's Homepage  Reply with Quote
terrell owens - sx/so ESTP 3. has said and done the most tactless things in recent history. blames his QB for losing. mocks ray lewis and then defends his actions by bringing up lewis' murder charges. called his former QB Garcia a homosexual. running to midfield and celebrating TD's on the dallas star twice. lol.

randy moss - sx/sp or sp/sx 3...definately social last. the distanced superstar. best receiver in the league and he ruins his reputation. the media hates randy moss. "whats $10 000 to me? next time i might shake my ****"


TACTLESS.
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