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The Enneagram Institute
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 Posted - 12 Jan 2009 : 11:55:49 PM
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The 2008 Presidential Candidates:
Personality Types Analysis
(Second Edition)
Now that the 2008 Election is over, we thought that we would present our views about the major candidates’ types. The following are our current, best "educated guesses," arrived at from listening to interviews, reading books and articles by and about the candidates, and observing their consistent behaviors and reactions. We also took into account what seems to be their sense of themselves and their motivations (both stated and implicit), their self-presentations, energetic and talking styles, and the recurrent themes they brought up during the campaign—all of which reveal their personality type.
Gaining insight into their personality type is relevant to an understanding many aspects of leadership, such as character, decision making style, openness to new ideas, flexibility, determination and persistence in adversity, and use of power. The following observations could be extended quite a bit, and we have written more about Barack Obama than the other candidates since he is the President-Elect and is now such an important and influential world figure.
Barack Obama:
3w4, Social Instinct Dominant ("The Achiever")
We believe Barack Obama is a Three with a Four-wing (“The Achiever”), with a wing subtype name of “The Professional”—both of which seem to fit him well. Typing Barack Obama has been challenging for the main reason that we believe that Obama is unusually healthy for a politician. He seems to be operating around Levels 3 to 5 of type Three—that is, the "center of gravity" of his personality is in the healthy to average range. His relatively high Level of psychological health is also why he is such an unusual politician and has become such an outstanding role model for others—especially for anyone of mixed background or who feels like a disenfranchised outsider.
There are some good reasons why Obama could well be another type (and we will consider the other most likely possibility, Nine with a One-wing below). Since every individual is a unique mix of all nine types, and since their personality reflects not only inborn temperament as well as parental and cultural imprints, there are often individuals whose type is more ambiguous than that of others—and, as already noted, if the person is relatively healthy, the type is also less a well-defined “fixation,” adding to the complexity of making a diagnosis. In these cases, it is often useful to try to keep “the big picture” of the person—the whole arc of their life and activities in view—rather than focus too narrowly on specific actions or traits which could be interpreted in a variety of ways.
With this approach in mind, a look at Barack Obama's career gives the overwhelming impression of a young man constantly "on the rise," which is typical of an average to healthy Three. Even as a young man, he needed to make something of himself and had talents and intelligence (as well as personal energy and ambition) that allowed him to do so. It would be difficult to find anyone else in recent American politics who is as ambitious and energetic—as well as idealistic and self-aware—as Barack Obama. Obama’s parents and grandparents instilled in him not only ideals, but a great deal of self-confidence and belief in his own worth and potential. Thus, we see an overall pattern of his being the “star” of whatever class or group he is in, the person who almost effortlessly succeeds at whatever he puts his hand to. Obama was blessed with intelligence, energy, the desire for self-improvement, good looks, and the ability to charm others, to disarm them and get them to like him and want to support his plans and ambitions—all characteristics which we see in a healthy, well-adjusted Three.
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Recognizing Threes
“Type Three exemplifies our desire to be our best self, to develop all of our potentials, and to value ourselves and others. Threes are the “stars” of the personality types—people of tremendous drive, ambition, and belief in themselves. Threes want to excel, to be the best at whatever they do, and they are willing to put in the effort it takes to do so. Threes can be found at the gym, taking classes at night, putting in extra hours at work, learning how to coordinate their best colors when they dress—basically doing what it takes to shine. While Threes are energetic and ambitious, they are also diplomatic—they want to be liked and esteemed by others. They strive to be presentable and appropriate, not wanting to come across in ways that would be disapproved of. They know how to put their best foot forward and present themselves in a way that highlights their energy and confidence.
“Threes are, above all, goal-oriented. They get a particular objective in their sights and then actively engage in activities that will bring them closer to whatever they seek. They pursue their dreams tirelessly, and cannot understand why others are not similarly motivated. Thus, Threes also enjoy sharing self-development tips, explaining how to make money, lose weight, develop career skills, and so forth. They are hard workers, diligent and effective—and they like helping others to be that way, too.
“To achieve their goals, Threes learn to be highly adaptable. They are able to change course when necessary and may even do so several times, including a change of career, if that is what it takes. They may try different approaches to problems until they find a formula that seems the most effective. Similarly, Threes quickly adapt to different social settings, always wanting to be appropriate and to exemplify the values of whatever group they are in. While their adaptability can be an enormous asset, it can also be overdone, leaving Threes unsure of who they are or what their own deepest values are.”—Riso and Hudson, Discovering Your Personality Type, (Houghton Mifflin; second edition, 2003), 106-107.)
Despite his fairly "cool" and self-contained exterior, we think that Obama is in the Feeling Center since he seems primarily to be concerned with issues of identity, personal value, and of being seen in a certain way—the main issues of the types in this Center. (Because of his unusually high Level of Development—and because he is a personality type Three (which is the “primary type” in the Feeling Center), he is able to put his feelings aside to perform and get the job at hand done. Virtually everyone agrees that Obama does not reveal his emotions readily nor does he get pulled into emotional reactivity and "drama"—all of which fits the Three pattern.
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‘The magazine American Conservative once described him as ‘a formidable identity artist.’ The observation was meant pejoratively, but it is also true, and arguably the key to his success. Mr. Obama’s early life suggests not adaptation, the chameleon’s ability to blend with the surroundings, but something more fundamental, a clear-eyed determination to change himself and establish his own identity by force of will. As a student, he read Nietzsche, while developing his own will to power.” (“The Times,” US Election Special Section, Nov. 5, 2008), p. 4.)
This also coincides perfectly with the Three personality pattern: we see in Obama a “formidable identity artist” in his ability to become what he thinks people want, to embody in himself and, importantly, to project to others what he intuits what they want to see in themselves. In effect, the Three becomes the screen on which others project their own hopes, ideals, and aspirations, and few in American politics have done this as successfully or completely as Barack Obama. An average Three will, however, do this as the projection of an image which increasingly has little connection with his or her real substance. A healthy Three, on the other hand, will actually embody and project the aspirations of others because he or she has become what they point toward: they actually become the “ideal” they seem to be.
Naturally, the process of becoming authentic and of being the person he seems to be started early in life for Obama, as it does for every child. His own identity and value were problematic, being the child of mixed-race parents, having an abandoning and absent father, and living much of his life with his white grandparents in racially and culturally diverse Hawaii. He not only had to “find himself,” he had to “create himself” in a way that would guarantee him a place in his world, and this took some maneuvering and trial-and-error:
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“I learned to slip back and forth between my black and white worlds, understanding that each possessed its own language and customs and structures of meaning, convinced that with a bit of translation on my part the two would eventually cohere. Still the feeling that something wasn’t quite right stayed with me. There was a trick there somewhere, although what the trick was, who was doing the trick, and who was being tricked eluded my conscious grasp.” (Obama: Dreams from My Father, quoted in “The Times” [London], no page specified.)
While growing up—and under more than usual teenage stress—we think that Obama shunted to the average Nine range (the Three’s Direction of Disintegration or “stress” predicted by Enneagram theory), disengaging emotionally and escaping into occasional drug use, disengagement, and apathy. The young Obama did not apply himself to any clear goals in life, except to want to become a professional basketball player. However, Obama pulled himself out of this movement to Nine by discovering that he could become "the family hero," a typical role of a Three at Level 4. He would make his mother and grandparents proud of him and heal his broken, mixed-race family’s shame by becoming more successful than his father and by being a better man than his father:
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“Barack means ‘blessed’ but Mr. Obama’s start was anything but. His father walked out early on, heading off to Harvard on another scholarship (the second time he would leave behind a wife and child but not the last). The young Mr. Obama would grow up with a heroic idea of the missing father. ‘The brilliant scholar, the generous friend, the upstanding leader…It was into my father’s image, the black man, the son of Africa, that I’d packed all of the attributes I sought in myself.’” (“The Times,” quoting Obama: Dreams from My Father,” no page reference given.)
A talent for turning adversity to his advantage (supported by his own native intelligence, ambition, and knowing when to take an opportunity when it knocks) was never a problem for Obama. As “The Times” dryly notes:
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“There are multiple journeys within the Obama story: from atheism to Christianity; from dry legal academic to the epitome of political cool; from “Barry” to “Barack”; from surfer dude to hardscrabble community worker to sharp-suited lawyer to president. ‘In no other country is my story even possible,’ Mr. Obama told the Democratic National Convention in 2004. Mr. Obama’s genius was to realize very early in his career, that so far from being a political liability, his extraordinary and unlikely story could be turned into his greatest asset.” (“The Times,” November 6, 2008.)
Ever since Obama entered college, his life has been an ever-escalating ascent in his career and fortunes. The principal keynote has been his monumental ambition as he moved from Occidental College in Los Angeles to Columbia University and beyond. After graduation from Columbia University, NYC in 1983, he had a series of jobs and then moved to Chicago in 1985 to become a community organizer there where he also met Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the pastor of the Trinity United Church of Christ. Until this time, Obama had been non-religious, but became a Christian at this time in Rev. Wright’s church. In terms of his personal growth, we believe it was during this time that he learned the lessons of “going to Six,” (the Direction of Integration of a Three, predicted by Enneagram theory) by giving himself to service to a cause greater than himself. It was a place and time where “his political identity and social conscience were forged and fused….Earning a meager $12,000 a year, Mr. Obama called the experience ‘the best education I ever had.’” (“The Times”)
Obama’s idealism has been evidently sincere ever since his Chicago community organizer days, although his idealism probably also had some psychological roots in his unconscious competition with his pragmatic, non- religious father (probably an Eight), and an expression of his wish to fulfill the dreams of his idealistic but somewhat romantic and impractical mother (probably a Four). Although we are speculating, it was probably his grandparents, Madelyn and Stanley Dunham who taught him that he could be “anything he wants to be”—virtually the internal anthem for the Three’s belief in himself and in his unlimited potential.
After his Chicago organizing experiences, Obama gained acceptance at Harvard Law School in 1988, and within two years was elected the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review, the most prestigious legal review in the country. After graduation, he went back to Chicago where he practiced law and taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago for about 10 years. (This was, of course, a huge career step and success for a newly minted young lawyer.) Obama was elected in 1996 to the Illinois State Senate, becoming one of its youngest members. In 2004, he was elected to the US Senate; at the time, he was the only black US Senator, and only the third black in history to be elected to the Senate in his own right. In 2006, Obama announced for the Presidency on the steps of the Illinois State Capital, the same building which is associated with the early career of one of his principal heroes and role models, Abraham Lincoln.
In common with Lincoln and his other main role model, Martin Luther King, Jr., Obama possesses outstanding rhetorical skills which have allowed him to inspire millions and to move them into action for change. Obama has been criticized, however, for being principally an orator rather than a person of political achievement with a solid record on either the state or federal level. It is true that despite achieving the Presidency in a mere 12 years since his election to the Illinois State Senate in 1996, Obama is not known for having a long list of political or social accomplishments. Despite his 12 years in public office, his lack of experience was a major problem for him and his campaign. However, with his formidable charm, intellect, and charisma, he relied on his rhetorical gifts to gain the confidence of others not so much for what he has done but to the nobility and inspiration of his vision for the future. His main talents lie in being a genuinely effective communicator, motivator, idealistic visionary, and personal role model—all qualities of healthy Three.
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“I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment…when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment—this was the time—when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals.” (Barack Obama, June 3, 2008 speech on the night of the last Democratic primary race.)
Besides the almost magical rhetorical cadences of this speech (and all his speeches), also notice the implied magic of a belief in ourselves and in the specialness of our moment in history, one which has the power to turn back the oceans, heal the planet, end war, and restore the image of America as “the last best hope on Earth.” It is a stirring rallying cry to “remake this great nation”—that is, to remake ourselves—from what we have been to become “our very best selves” and an expression of “our highest ideals.” The belief in oneself and the ability to remake oneself, to be my best self, and to embody my highest ideals is among the most deeply held and cherished beliefs of personality type Three—and the Three in all of us.
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“Almost everyone would like to be like a healthy Three, at least in some way. Who would not like to be attractive and at ease with themselves and with others? Who would not like to be self-assured and endowed with the energy and motivation to make the most of their potential? Who would not like to enjoy being themselves as healthy Threes so evidently do? When they are healthy, Threes are truly stars. When people are in their presence, they are aware of something special about them.” (Riso and Hudson, Personality Types, Houghton Mifflin, 1996, second edition), p. 109.
* * *
Despite the above (and other evidence which could be amassed), there are characteristics in Obama which lead some to type him as a Nine with a One-wing (Nine—“The Peacemaker,” and the One- wing, “The Dreamer.”) We have given this typing long consideration and much debate. We have heard Obama’s statements about bringing people together and healing the nation of racial and religious fractions and the need to build coalitions. We also see his apparently unruffled demeanor, his ability to listen to different points of view, his ability to not react to attacks with anger during the 2008 campaign, and so forth.
But we disagree with a Nine with One-wing typing, and think that a close look at the whole pattern of his personality does not support this interpretation. Obama’s career and extraordinary personal ambition are not consistent with a "laid-back" Nine personality structure. Even though healthy Nines are engaged, aware, and can be energetic, they are usually not as consistently persistent, outwardly-focused, pragmatic, self-aware, and goal-oriented as Obama has been throughout his adult life.
There are many other important points of contrast. For example, the Three’s Social Role is personified in Obama as someone who is "The Best," someone who is intent on becoming outstanding at whatever he attempts. By contrast, the Social Role of the Nine is "Nobody Special," which does not fit Obama at all, given his extraordinary life story and meteoric professional history. In fact, he has been criticized for being arrogant and elitist and having a "messiah complex"—something one would not see in a Nine.
Further, if Obama were a Nine, we would see evidence of movements under stress to Six (self-doubt, anxiety, being dependent on others' counsel rather than trusting his own judgment, inferiority feelings, emotional reactivity, and so forth), which we do not see in his history at all. By contrast, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, and George W. Bush are Nines, and they are quite unlike Obama in many different ways; we also can see movements to Six in all of them. If Obama were a Three, however, Enneagram theory predicts that we would see movements toward the healthy side of Six (the Direction of Integration expressed in humble service to others, commitment, and trustworthiness), which we see in Obama. If Obama is a Three, we would also expect to see movements to average Nine (the Direction of Disintegration/stress which we can see in his early disengagement, passivity, and apathy). We will also see a higher movement to Nine toward his “Missing Piece,” discussed below.
Moreover, if Obama were a Nine, there would be moments of average-Level Three traits (or “security point” reactions). His behavior would shift from a Nine's laid-back invisibility and reluctance to step forward (much less to promote himself), to moments of awkwardly seeking others’ validation. Again, we do not see this in Obama, who is graceful, highly poised in public, polished at self- presentation, and knows how and when to project a good natured self-deprecation and self-assured humility.
Nines are in the Instinctive Center and their theme-song, so to speak is “I don’t want to be messed with.” We see stability, resistance, the tendency to downplay problems or the need for change, and a reluctance to take on difficult issues. By contrast, Threes are in the Feeling Center, and their theme-song is “See me the way I want to be seen”—something which much more clearly fits Obama. We see in Threes adaptability, flexibility, pragmatism, charm, and the ability to impress people and to get them on their side. Nines tend to go with their “gut hunches,” and to have little concern with consequences or details; Threes tend to give careful consideration to their actions, to the point of being almost pre-meditated. They are also highly aware of the importance of details and careful management in order to be effective. Threes are masters of compromise, whereas Nines can become willfully stubborn and intransigent.
It is also worth noting that the psychological capacity on which the personality is built is, in Nines, “unselfconsciousness,” whereas in Threes, it is “adaptability.” We suggest that Barack Obama is anything but unselfconscious, and is, in fact, the personification of self-conscious adaptability and pragmatism. Related to this is the observation that Obama seems to be completely self-motivated unlike many successful Nines who live with someone who finds the button in them that turns them “on” and knows when and how to push it. It seems that Michelle Obama has been reluctant to be this deeply into politics and has not been pushing her husband into this arena—Barack Obama has done this for and to himself, dragging her along, so to speak. By contrast, Nines often "fall into" leadership positions, or are or are pushed into leadership positions as figure-heads who can be used by other “background” influences rather than seek the limelight themselves. (For example, Ron Reagan, Jr. said something humorous and telling to the effect that "My father would have been perfectly happy being a game show host if it wasn't for my mother.”) We’d wager that someone (not Laura) was behind G. W. Bush’s run for the Presidency—but that Obama had his own ambitions and is not “fronting” for someone else.)
Another way to clarify someone’s type is to list a series of average qualities of the alternative types in consideration, and recall if the person has behaved consistently in these ways—or to imagine them doing so by extrapolation. (We can dub this “the extrapolation technique.”) For example, in average Nines (Level 5) we see complacency, disengagement, being on “auto-pilot” much of the time, being oblivious and in denial often, unresponsiveness, vagueness in their thinking and flatness to their emotions, stoicism and resistance—among many other traits we could mention. Whereas, in average Threes (Level 5), we see expediency, efficiency, pragmatism, image-consciousness, the tendency to be “rehearsed” to the point of being calculated, coming across as “Mr. Nice Guy,” being intensely goal-oriented, excellent at knowing what is in demand and trying to present themselves as that—among the many other traits we could mention. We think that, without a doubt, Barack Obama does not fit the characteristics of the average Nine, but that he strongly fits the traits of the average Three, at least by extrapolation. We think that Obama is generally more healthy than this (more often Levels 3 and 4) although he regresses to Level 5 occasionally.
Last, and very tellingly: Is Obama is in the Competency Group (One, Three, and Five), or in the Positive Outlook Group (Two, Seven, and Nine)? We think he is clearly a Competency type, and while he seems to be idealistic, he is, at his core, a pragmatist (as Threes are), as we predict time will tell. We also continue to see him as Assertive type (Three, Seven, or Eight), going after and attaining the Presidency in 12 years in public life. The “Nine” elements in his personality have been consciously and unconsciously learned along the way as an effective way to get along with people and be a "Mr. Nice Guy" who does not threaten others, gains their confidence and votes, and makes allies to help him with his political ambitions.
Thus, Obama’s "Nine" qualities can, at base, be explained by the Three’s tendency to want to be pleasing to everyone—to not lose popularity by alienating others. (“John [McCain], I agree with you….”) Threes are diplomatic and polite, even when they are privately preparing to go on the offensive or to say or do something undermining or hostile. They are concerned with “looking good,” and maintaining whatever image they have identified with. In Obama’s case, it is one of a moderate, an idealist, an intellectual, and a reasonable man—all qualities that Threes have in common with average to healthy Nines. To explode at someone or to become openly hostile would be among the last things he would want to do in public. Obama has also been consciously modeling himself after his personal role model, Abraham Lincoln, who was a Nine with a One-wing. This kind of carefully calibrated personal expression is a basic survival skill learned early by most Threes; as Obama says of himself:
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“’I had given her a reassuring smile and patted her hand and told her not to worry. I wouldn’t do anything stupid. It was usually an effective tactic; another one of those tricks I had learned: people were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied—they were relieved—such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time.’
“It is indeed an effective tactic: you could say that the whole campaign was defined by the motto: ‘No sudden moves.’ And yet how telling that last sentence is for there is a world of difference between being angry and not seeming angry.” (Obama, Dreams from My Father, no page cited, in “The Times,” page 17.)
Obama’s “Nine” qualities can also be explained by his moving toward the Three’s "Missing Piece" at Nine, something we would see only in a healthy, conscious Three. Rather than their finding personal value only in achievement and external success, the healthy Three knows that his value is inherent in his Being, and that he can abide in Being itself (as a very healthy Nine does). In short, highly developed Threes move from “human doings” at Three to “human beings” at Nine (after learning at Six how to connect with and serve other people).
This is the meaning of the Three's "Missing Piece" which we believe Obama is intuitively learning especially in moments of ego-transcendence that seem to happen during some of his momentous speeches. At such times, Obama does not have to do almost anything except to offer himself as a clear channel, a kind of priest calling forth the highest aspirations of the people. As one of the participants on our website’s Discussion Board (“Marie”) beautifully put it:
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“I could feel all of this when I heard him speak. The energy came from the crowd. He called it forth and stood out of the way. An old black woman stood next to me weeping and teenagers who didn't even understand the nature of what called to them cheered. He wasn't basking in the limelight...he stood out of the way, and became the greater because of it.
"If it were about him...if it was a narcissism expressing itself...I would have known. I would have felt it. The dancing in the streets on November 4th was not about him; even he knew as much. It was written on his face. It was about something much bigger...something that we never could have felt had it been about him...he is but its channel.”
Of course, much more could be said about all of this; however, in short, we feel that Barack Obama has found his value as a human being through becoming an authentic exemplar of the American Dream. He is the personal embodiment of the visions of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr., his heroes and role models. Last, it is noteworthy that his main personal message to others has been about "hope," and about helping others to find their own value; in this regard, it is no coincidence that Hope is the Holy Idea for the Three.
* * *
Joe Biden:
7w6, Social Instinct Dominant ("The Enthusiast")
Biden seems to be a high- average Seven, operating around Level 4 for the most part. He brings a lot of energy and exuberance to whatever he does, has a quick wit and a highly developed sense of humor. He is curious, leading him to have wide- ranging interests in foreign affairs and government. Biden is also known as "a talker" and to be overly loquacious on the Senate floor—often to both the amusement and dismay of his Senate colleagues.
Biden has the typically Seven habit of saying what’s on his mind and of not worrying about playing it safe or saying the “politically correct” thing. This has gotten him into some trouble on different occasions, but his Delaware constituents admire him for his honesty and forthrightness because he often says the very things they feel but do not have the platform for saying. Biden is thus an interesting mix of the Social Seven with the Social Six (Everyman—we could even dub him "Joe the Senator"—which endears him to his constituents).
On the other hand, Biden’s very verbosity and tendency toward techno-speak often leaves his listeners baffled and bewildered by what he is saying: too much information can be overwhelming, and is an indication of the Seven’s tendency to talk too much, go off on tangents, and get into areas that he may or may not know enough about (as we will also see in another Seven, Sarah Palin, below). Being more selective in his comments and having a clear sense of priorities in the things he speaks about and does will likely be a problem for him as a Seven in the Vice-President’s office, as it has been during his Senate career.
The Six-wing also shows up in his history as a loyal family man. He lost his first wife and daughter in a car accident two weeks after winning his Senate seat, but committed himself to raising his remaining two sons, even with an hour and a half commute from Wilmington, Delaware to Washington DC. Unlike a lower functioning (Level 5 or 6) Seven, Biden did not avoid his responsibilities when his personal life got difficult, but found his own honor and integrity by remaining committed to his family and being focused on his work as a Senator.
John McCain:
8w9, Social Instinct Dominant ("The Challenger")
McCain comes across as grounded, stable, and secure with himself. His campaign bus was called the “Straight-Talkin’ Express” and the personal quality he most often emphasized throughout his career is that he is a "Maverick.” (“Straight talking” and “maverick” are two key words that we have independently used for many years to describe the average Eight.) McCain is also a well-known risk- taker, someone who loves to test his mettle by taking on the thrill of danger, going against the rules, and pulling victory from the jaws of disaster.
“Enjoying craps opens up a window on a central thread constant in John’s life, says John Weaver, McCain’s former chief strategist, who followed him to many a casino. Taking a chance, playing against the odds….McCain’s campaign, like his life, has been marked by its embrace of living dangerously and by clear runs of fortune and disappointment….McCain’s passion for gambling and taking other risks has never been a secret....He was a Navy flyer, trained in the art of controlled crash landings on aircraft carriers. He spent his youth sneaking booze behind the backs of his schoolmasters and reveling in his stack of demerits. He came of age on shore leave in the casinos of Monte Carlo, in a Navy culture that had long embraced dice in the officers’ clubs.” (Time magazine online, Election ’08: “Candidates Vices: Craps and Poker” by Michael Scherer and Michael Weisskopf.)
McCain also demonstrated a strong will and the determination to resist control and defeat by his captors during the Vietnam War; he survived captivity and torture as a POW—indications that he is a fighter, a physical and emotional survivor, and probably courageous enough to be considered a bona fide war hero. Throughout his political career, McCain has demonstrated a high level of courage, personal honor, and respect for others—along with toughness, the ability to be decisive and to wield power, and to go against popular opinion in pursuit of what he thinks is right—all qualities of the high-average Eight.
The theme of honor is important for all Eights, and unfortunately, McCain’s honor was tarnished during the campaign when he frequently misrepresented Obama (and allowed others on his staff to do so as well). However, McCain's concession speech on November 4th showed real strength of character and magnanimity of spirit—hallmarks of the healthy Eight, which he once again has embodied after the rough and tumble of the election was over. (As many have noted, had he been able to communicate these qualities throughout the campaign, he might well have won.)
The Nine-wing (“The Bear”) makes McCain more willing to be conciliatory and work across the aisle, and to communicate with an easy-going affability and warmth. Contrary to some Enneagrammers, we don’t think that McCain is a counterphobic Six—even with counterphobia, there would still be a palpable undercurrent of anxiety which affects this subtype's ability to make quick decisions, to trust one’s actions, and to be relaxed and at ease. McCain is simply not coming from fear but from perhaps an excess of self-confidence in his ability to survive against the odds, as he has done many times in the past. Further, McCain is clearly not a "head type" (Six) but a "gut type" (Eight)—one piece of evidence for this is his impulsive and short-sighted choice of Sarah Palin for Vice President. This is a good example of McCain's tendency to go with his "gut instincts" rather than carefully and methodically thinking through his options—something Obama tellingly pointed out by calling McCain "erratic under pressure."
Sarah Palin:
7w8, Sexual Instinct Dominant ("The Enthusiast")
Palin is an example of an average Seven who gets herself into trouble by talking about things she does not know about and then attempting to change the subject, or by trying to talk her way out of her missteps. In short, like average Sevens, she can be too talkative and unfortunately, and during the campaign, she kept putting her foot in her mouth. Like many Sevens, she is also unpredictable, perhaps one of the reasons why the press gives her so much attention since they never know what she will say next.
We see Palin as someone who is funny, perky, and sassy—a fast-learner, and who has a lot of self-confidence. She is also energetic, ambitious, and is not afraid to speak her mind, even when she is ill-informed. However, like other average Sevens, she also tends to be superficial and glib, attempting to “wing it” with answers to reporters, even when she has been briefed by her staff. Two noteworthy examples: Palin said of Russia that “They’re our next door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.” While true, this is not a credible basis for claiming to have international relations experience, as she seemed doing. The other similar fracas had to do with the false allegation that she did not know that Africa was a continent, not a country. This false accusation was started by Martin Eisenstadt, allegedly a McCain supporter who goes on to say:
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“Did we outright give her a geography quiz when we started the prep? No, of course not. But yes, in the context of the prep, it slowly became apparent that her grasp of basic geo-political knowledge had major gaps. Could she have passed a multiple choice test about South Africa or NAFTA. Probably. But it was clear that she simply didn’t have the ease of knowledge that we come to expect from a major party political candidate. Other slights came up, too: Not knowing the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas. Or the difference between the Shiites and Sunni. Or when it came to international terrorist organizations, knowing that the IRA was in Northern Ireland, and ETA in Spain.” (from Eisenstadt’s website: www.Eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/11/10)
Despite these shortcomings, Palin brought a certain upbeat energy to the political scene and to McCain's campaign. One of the political commentators said that Palin was the “energizer bunny” of the Republican Party, which is close to the Social Role that we have assigned for many years to the average Seven (“The Energizer”).
Palin is also aggressive and dislikes being without options. On a Rachel Maddow Show (MSNBC), Palin said that she prays to God to show her a little crack in the door and then she will push right through. Palin is always looking for an opening to push her way into new opportunities for herself, for the excitement of the new, as well as to further her own personal ambition. Palin is all about action and movement, although often impulsively so. She also seems to be interested in using power to influence society with her religious and political agendas and to have little compunction about using her political position to punish her political enemies (for example, as in the Trooper Gate and other scandals as Alaska governor.) These attitudes and behaviors can be attributed to her Eight-wing, which is a personality component that she and John McCain share.
A few overall comments:
1) Differences in Obama / McCain Campaigns
In Obama’s campaign, his advisors often told him to fight back and that he was being too cool. This difference between the two candidates was graphically illustrated on a Newsweek magazine cover: “Mr. Hot vs. Mr. Cool,”.(October 6, 2008) This is a very apt distinction between an Eight and a Three.... Throughout the campaign, McCain, an Eight in the Intensity Harmonic Group (a triadic grouping discovered by us), followed his gut instincts and was accused of being erratic and impulsive, even choosing Palin after only one telephone interview. By contrast, Obama, a Three, in the Competency Harmonic Group—he is rational, shrewd, and thinks things through, even to the point of potentially being overly rational and premeditated. As long as Obama stays healthy and close to his personal ideals, he will actually embody and foster the values he talks about, the very thing that McCain failed to do (and which may have cost him the election).
2) Both McCain and Obama called for "change."
As a Three and an Eight, both Obama and McCain are in the Assertive Hornevian Group (another triadic grouping taught by us). Assertives are always interested in making change happen; it is therefore not surprising that both would be advocating "change," which would not likely be the case if Obama were a Nine and McCain a Six—two of the most psychologically conservative types of the Enneagram. Further, it is noteworthy that all four of the major candidates are Assertives—Three (Obama), Seven (Biden and Palin), and Eight (McCain). In this Group, the Three is most outwardly restrained in his or her personal assertion—the style is more about personal ambition, not willful self-assertion, and the quest for personal excellence, especially when the person is healthy.
3) Anyone who is successful in politics, particularly in national politics, would do well to have a high Social Instinct.
Everyone in this group of 2008 Candidates is Social Instinct Dominant, except Sarah Palin, who is Sexual Instinct Dominant. In our opinion, those politicians who are not Social Instinct Dominant will have a hard time in the national political arena. For example, Adelai Stephenson, Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon, and many others who were not Social Instinct Dominant had difficulty connecting with the electorate or dealing with the press. They also found the act of campaigning itself to be especially draining—this in distinction to Ronald Reagan, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Gerald Ford, and FDR, among others, who are all Social Instinct Dominant and who seem to be energized by the act of campaigning itself.
4) It’s interesting to note that both V-P running mates are Sevens (Biden and Palin).
For better or worse, both Obama and McCain unconsciously chose Sevens as their VP running mates. Sevens can make good spokespersons for the main candidate, as well as bring energy, new ideas, humor, curiosity, and candor, among other qualities depending on their Level, Instinct, wing, and life experience. The downside is that Sevens tend to be impulsive and may be too candidly outspoken for their high- visibility position.
We speculate that Obama may have chosen Biden because he intuited that he needed someone with more experience and who has a lighter spirit than he has. Obama is inspiring, but is often too professorial and serious—Biden is funny, a story- teller, folksy, and can reach the common person. On the other hand, McCain may have intuited that he needed someone strong like him, but who is also younger, a "fresher face" who can make his "straight talking" seem conservative and statesmanlike by comparison. Also, because of his age, McCain may have felt that he needed someone who could energize younger people and women, attracting the Hillary Clinton votes.
As noted at the beginning of this piece, this kind of analysis could go into much more detail. Understanding the personality types of candidates for public office is of extreme importance to voters. Likewise, understanding the personality types of foreign leaders is of extreme importance to President-Elect Obama, and in this, the Enneagram can play an important role. Using the Enneagram to understand the personality structures, particularly of anyone in power, is one of its most important and legitimate practical uses.
—Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson with Katy Taylor, Joyce Stenstrom, and Jessica Dibb
The Enneagram Institute
January 12, 2009
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 12:15:55 PM
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quote:
“To achieve their goals, Threes learn to be highly adaptable. They are able to change course when necessary and may even do so several times, including a change of career, if that is what it takes. They may try different approaches to problems until they find a formula that seems the most effective. Similarly, Threes quickly adapt to different social settings, always wanting to be appropriate and to exemplify the values of whatever group they are in. While their adaptability can be an enormous asset, it can also be overdone, leaving Threes unsure of who they are or what their own deepest values are.”—Riso and Hudson, Discovering Your Personality Type, (Houghton Mifflin; second edition, 2003), 106-107.)
Obama has been exactly the same since his early 20's.
This rare TV interview from 1995 (he was 33) will give you some insight. One thing is clear - the guy is consistent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBxUSLCPlmc&feature=related
I will highlight more on his consistent values and personality later on.
quote:
‘The magazine American Conservative once described him as ‘a formidable identity artist.’ The observation was meant pejoratively, but it is also true, and arguably the key to his success. Mr. Obama’s early life suggests not adaptation, the chameleon’s ability to blend with the surroundings, but something more fundamental, a clear-eyed determination to change himself and establish his own identity by force of will. As a student, he read Nietzsche, while developing his own will to power.”
You are correct. Obama has been consistent since his early 20's.
What makes you think he read Nietzsche for identity reason's? 9's have issues with will power.
quote:
Obama pulled himself out of this movement to Nine by discovering that he could become "the family hero," a typical role of a Three at Level 4. He would make his mother and grandparents proud of him and heal his broken, mixed-race family’s shame by becoming more successful than his father and by being a better man than his father:
Obama soul searched and found his own path. A path far bigger than he was alone. Obama's personality became consistent around 24-25. Long before he read Abraham Lincoln .
Show me where Obama has ever said anything about wanting to heal his broken, mixed-race family’s shame. How ugly and presumptuous.
Obama has said his mother always thought her son and daughter were perfect. They had nothing to prove to her on that front. Obama's grandmother had no time for the frivolous feelings of shame. Obama's grandmother worked in a man's world and held her own in a time few women had the nerve. Obama's Grandfather was a dreamer who was a bit blitzed out. He had no time for shame either. He lived in a head sweater.
Obama's identity issues were not shame based. Obama did feel overlooked and ignored a bit as a child, though.
His relationship with Obama was like that of brothers, Kakugawa told ABC News one recent afternoon in Los Angeles. "Everybody said they always saw him smiling and happy. I didn't. I got to see the turmoil, I got to see how he really felt. Here's a kid who was growing up as an adolescent in a tough situation. He felt abandoned, he felt that his father abandoned him and his mother was always pursuing her career."
Same with his grandparents. His grandmother was work focused and his grandfather was tuned out.
"Coping strategy: Some Nines describe their childhood as one in which they felt overlooked or ignored and felt they had to go along with the wishes of others"
That's fits Obama's childhood rather well.
And this is where we go back in time.
Obama transferred from Occidental College to Columbia University. At OC he was not focused. He was 18 and doing a lot of drugs. And he was having some issues with divided identity. I wonder if R & H are aware that identity issues are the hallmark of the teen years. Yes, I'm sure of it. That is why they tell people to think of how they were in their mid 20's to determine personality type. In the teens most people's identity is still shifting and taking form. To carve out an identity and fit in remains the paradox of the teen years.
While at Columbia University Obama was still a little lost and unsure of his future. At Columbia University Obama soul searched and got in touch with his values. Those values would help firm his identity in the next couple years. I'm sure that is typical of the psychological development of most young adults.
What was not typical was how he withdrew into a solitary, monk-like existence. At that point it was not so much about his identity but his value system. He was very serious and very 1ish.
......................................................................
Thummalapally lived with Obama the summer of 1980. The two ran together daily, three miles in the early morning, often chatting about their dreams. Thummalapally wanted to start a business back home; Obama talked about helping people.
"I want to get into public service," he recalls Obama saying. "I want to write and help people who are disadvantaged."
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In 1981, Obama transferred from Occidental to Columbia. In between, he traveled to Pakistan — a trip that enhanced his foreign policy qualifications, he maintained in a private speech at a San Francisco fundraiser last month. Obama spent "about three weeks" in Pakistan, traveling with Hamid and staying in Karachi with Chandoo's family, said Bill Burton, Obama's press secretary.
"He was clearly shocked by the economic disparity he saw in Pakistan. He couldn't get over the sight of rural peasants bowing to the wealthy landowners they worked for as they passed," says Margot Mifflin, who makes a brief appearance in Obama's memoir.
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Looking back, Siddiqi acknowledges that he and Obama were an odd couple. Siddiqi would mock Obama's idealism — he just wanted to make a lot of money and buy things, while Obama wanted to help the poor.
"At that age, I thought he was a saint and a square, and he took himself too seriously," Siddiqi said. "I would ask him why he was so serious. He was genuinely concerned with the plight of the poor. He'd give me lectures, which I found very boring. He must have found me very irritating."
"We were both very lost. We were both alienated, although he might not put it that way. He arrived disheveled and without a place to stay,"
In about 1982, Siddiqi and Obama got an apartment at a sixth-floor walkup on East 94th Street. Siddiqi managed to get the apartment thanks to subterfuge.
Siddiqi fudged his credentials, saying he had a high-paying job at a catering company, but Obama "wanted no part of it. He put down the truth."
While Obama has acknowledged using marijuana and cocaine during high school in Hawai'i, he writes in the memoir that he stopped using soon after his arrival in New York. His roommate had no such scruples.
But Siddiqi says that during their time together here, Obama always refused his offers of drugs.
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In his memoir and in interviews, Obama has said he got serious and buckled down in New York. "I didn't socialize that much. I was like a monk," he said in a 2005 Columbia alumni magazine interview. He told biographer David Mendell: "For about two years there, I was just painfully alone and really not focused on anything, except maybe thinking a lot."
......................................................................
Now, that is note worthy.
"The problem is that, in the headlong rush to achieve whatever they believe will make them more valuable, Threes can become so alienated from themselves that they no longer know what they truly want, or what their real feelings or interests are. In this state, they are easy prey to self–deception, deceit, and falseness of all kinds. Thus, the deeper problem is that their search for a way to be value increasingly takes them further away from their own Essential Self with its core of real value."
Obama did the opposite. Obama found his value system. It was a value system that put others before himself. Obama is social first and that means he put the whole of humanity before himself and even before his personal relationships.
Now, in the other thread I listed countless accounts of Obama's type 9 temperament. It was a temperament firmly established long before he read Abraham Lincoln. You seem to want to dismiss the most paramount time in discerning Obama's personality type. You cling to his teenage identity crisis and your own assumptions. Like account after account of Obama's life time pattern of self deprecation, humility and modestly as artifice. And then you toss out one liners taken out of context, and proven to be distorted pictures, as proof of his 3ish traits.
Obama's Sister:
"Hawaii is the place that gave him the ability to ... understand people from a wide array of backgrounds," she said in a recent phone interview. "People see themselves in him ... because he himself contains multitudes."
Those multitudes are not type 3 mirroring. Those multitudes come from a rare background that has given him an understanding and tolerance for diversity.
quote:
This is the meaning of the Three's "Missing Piece" which we believe Obama is intuitively learning especially in moments of ego-transcendence
'
Because he is so healthy.
On the flip..
He could be a 9 with a strong line to high health 3 who has found the 'Missing Piece' in high health 6.
Because he is so healthy.
Or maybe he is a 9 that tries to make peace between two sides and has an issue with 'over compromising' at times. And right now that is kind of pissing off the far left.
Then again.. maybe Obama is a secret sneaky socialist 3w4 who is brilliantly manipulating the public while crafting humanitarian legislation that calls upon our highest nature rather than our lowest. The evil of being herded into being less selfish and more aware... by a 3 no less! Oh, what a dastardly ploy.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 19 Jan 2009 8:13:49 PM |
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pork
Member
USA
5220 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 2:49:48 PM
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The Enneagram Institute: His behavior would shift from a Nine's laid-back invisibility and reluctance to step forward (much less to promote himself), to moments of awkwardly seeking others’ validation. Again, we do not see this in Obama, who is graceful, highly poised in public, polished at self-presentation, and knows how and when to project a good natured self-deprecation and self-assured humility.
Whoever wrote that has fallen into the common trap of assuming that the presence of an ego defense guarantees some ability or that the absence of an ego defense guarantees a lack of some ability.
If you have not discovered that there are some Nines who are more graceful than many Threes, your mind is not suited to apply typologies to people. Whether your mind is suited to formulate typologies is uncertain; the EI has usually seemed, paradoxically, more apt at formulation than at application.
In misunderstanding the relationship between type and ability, the author suggests a lack of understanding of an important aspect of stress and security movements: one's abilities determine one's predominant path. An unusually awkward Three may spend unusual stretches of time stalled at Nine, and an unusually graceful Nine may spend unusual stretches of time cruising at Three.
Natural and learned abilities may influence what we call "health," but there is no reason why even liberation from an ego defense should (magically?) confer a mental ability (e.g., social grace) on someone if that ability is not merely an inevitable result of the absence of the ego defense.
In general, harmony between ego defense and ability may be normal but not inevitable or even as common as we tend to assume. The same goes for putative proportions of certain abilities among the types.
The Enneagram Institute: Using the Enneagram to understand the personality structures, particularly of anyone in power, is one of its most important and legitimate practical uses.
And thus, fittingly, that's one of the hardest things to do well. 
^(oo)^
4w3-6w5-8w9
SP/SX
INFJ |
Edited by - pork on 13 Jan 2009 3:32:33 PM |
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ptypes
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 3:15:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ptypes
"The Daily Show" On Obama's Press Conference: "He's Still Got A Lot To Learn"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/the-daily-show-on-obamas_n_157429.html
Yeah.... watch Obama's first answer on that Daily show clip.
Now watch Obama first answer on this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBxUSLCPlmc&feature=related
They are exactly the same. 33 from 47... no change.
I would even say Obama is consistent to the point of being steadfast in a singular almost stubborn philosophy. That's some, so called, type 3 willpower. And it all seems to come back to his mother and father. The child trying to bring together the divide. Like his tranquillity depends on him trying to bridging separations.
You know.. 3's and 6's... they tend to have some versatility.
But that Obama... it's been the same message from the time he was in his mid 20's. Like there has been little growth past his young convictions. I mean sure... maybe he reached top health at 25 and has remained there. But then again... maybe he is not as healthy as he would appear. Maybe he is a little too steadfast and locked into a mind set that he has simplified into consistent compromise for the sake of peace. I mean.. it seems open minded and open to different ideas... but the core of the conviction... it's unmoving.
Hmm...
If that is the case then maybe I should start hoping for him to be a super healthy 3w4 who has a line to high health 6 who found the missing piece that gives him the gifts of high health 9.
I'm mean.. sure. That works. I'll take it. Even in lower health 3 would be sneaky enough to get his political agenda through. And his back ground shows a clear humanitarian philosophy.
That sounds better than a mid-health 9 that might be stubborn to the point of giving too much of his power away if his convictions dictated he compromise all the time.
We will have to see. Time will tell.
Indeed, a 3w4 at level 4 would be far better than a 9w1 at level 4.
I can see that point. At least in regards to what we need as a nation from Obama.
I can see the hope behind typing him as a 3w4.
Yes, maybe that would be best. And the idea seems to work-up and torment republican hacks. The devil in me enjoys that too.
Oh, that sneaky, sneaky Obama is going to steal their candy.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 13 Jan 2009 11:11:20 PM |
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.ron4
Member
11625 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 5:17:12 PM
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Hi "E" people.
I don't have anything to add at this time , I just
wanted to have my name up here with all the greats
before this sticky is locked.
Ron
ps. I predict this sticky will have arguments of superiority .
Now back to the future.
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Edited by - .ron4 on 27 Jan 2009 3:36:58 PM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 5:29:44 PM
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Jesus.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
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anon1
Member
7611 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 9:21:26 PM
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I agree with Palin being sexual 7w8 - up until now, I haven't had anyone else agree with me on it.
Obama, I don't agree. I view him as 9w1 so/sp/sx. He's "Steady Freddy", "Easy does it." One thing at a time - "One President at a time." What's the rush? 9w1
Check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLWkPGJmZtA
Notice his posture. He is "boring". When Sasha was being a bit silly in dad's eyes, his motivation was to calm her down. Awkward with children - Shakes hands - GOOD SON. And isn't that what motivates him, to be a good son? Leaves his bag at the front door where they trip over it, "On her shoes" - Sasha's shoes. He's soo Type 9.
4w3 sx/sp/so
dee says: Priorities are only effective when in the right order! (Type 1) |
Edited by - anon1 on 14 Jan 2009 09:51:53 AM |
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pork
Member
USA
5220 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 10:55:20 PM
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The Enneagram Institute: We think he is clearly a Competency type, and while he seems to be idealistic, he is, at his core, a pragmatist (as Threes are), as we predict time will tell. We also continue to see him as Assertive type (Three, Seven, or Eight), going after and attaining the Presidency in 12 years in public life.
A description similar to that could apply to my stepfather, a 9w8 SX/SO. He's a pragmatist in the service of ideals, and his obvious investment in the furthering of his rank has paid off. Nobody cajoled him into his job, either. He is driven at core, it seems, by the need to provide for his loved ones.
The Enneagram Institute: We suggest that Barack Obama is anything but unselfconscious
You're referring to his heavy One wing.
The Enneagram Institute: we see in Obama a “formidable identity artist” in his ability to become what he thinks people want
That kind of speculative mythologizing (in this case, spurious hyperbole aimed at the conservative-rag-reading market), which has long marred analyses of Bill Clinton, has found a new target in our next Chief Executive. So far, your points seem to work best as sensationalized snippets, whereas those able to recontextualize and soberly assess these snippets tell a different story.
The Enneagram Institute: The “Nine” elements in his personality have been consciously and unconsciously learned along the way as an effective way to get along with people and be a "Mr. Nice Guy" who does not threaten others, gains their confidence and votes, and makes allies to help him with his political ambitions.
All of his "Nine" qualities, seemingly inexhaustible as ever-more-evocative descriptions continue to pour out on these threads? That far-fetched argument would be more interesting if your case for Three were stronger, actually approaching home base instead of fiddling with obvious conjecture over yellow-press sound bites and simplistic ideas regarding Enneagram types and people.
Why pay $500 to learn that pragmatism indicates a Competency type and that rapid advancement in rank indicates an Assertive type? I can get that kind of nonsense for free from newbies on the Internet. And from oldbies, particularly those who happen to be Obama fans, I can get an abundance of perceptive reasoning that buries the product of your clowning around.
Adopt, adapt, and improve.
^(oo)^
4w3-6w5-8w9
SP/SX
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2009 : 11:27:08 PM
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Obama And Conservatives Break Bread At George Will's House
Obama has pledged to be a uniter once in office. He's also said he is willing to take policy suggestions from any source, regardless of ideological affiliation, as long as they work. So far, he's living up to his word...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/obamas-dinner-with-conser_n_157701.html
Yes, indeed... he is living up to his word. The same droning words he has been saying for years and years and years and years.
It's not like the left has been conned. Obama has been consistent and honest from get go. Maybe deep down we were hoping that it was spin in order for him to get elected. But, alas, it was not.
Obama has a steadfast belief system. Yes he does.
Democrats are going to have to be big... even though so many want to kick the republican cats.
Well, at least the EIDB is typing Obama a 3w4. That will create mass paranoia in the groups that pay attention to Hannity and the like.
There is that small reward. 
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
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Pata_Pata
Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 01:37:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
Virtually everyone agrees that Obama does not reveal his emotions readily nor does he get pulled into emotional reactivity and "drama"—all of which fits the Three pattern.
zenbrat described this very idea in the following post: quote:
I see him as a 3w4 ENTP.
Inventive
Code: INV
Disorder: Compensatory Narcissistic (not a personality disorder in DSM-IV)
Enneagram: 3w4, 4w3
Variant: Social
Myers-Briggs: ENFP, ENTP
Function: Extraverted Intuition
The following description was written by Dave Kelly. A bibliography can be found here.
Description: The following ten traits and characteristics are typical of the Inventive personality type.
Idealized self-image. Individuals of the Inventive type develop highly idealized images of themselves with which they identify and which they love. The person is his idealized self and seems to adore it (Glad, 494).
Subdued demeanor. Persons of the Inventive type are energetic, but phlegmatic in temperament. "They can be quiet, rather private, subdued in demeanor, and have artistic interests and aesthetic sensibilities (Riso, 102)."
Attention. Individuals of the Inventive type have a tendency to behave in such a way as to attract attention. "They can be subtle show-offs, but show-offs nonetheless (Riso, 103)."
Openness to culture. The Inventive person has unusual thought processes, values intellectual matters, and judges in unconventional terms. He or she is aesthetically reactive and has a wide range of interests (McCrae and John).
Intelligence. "Intelligence will typically be emphasized in their self-images and social dealings." They put great stock in their ideas and demand that others do likewise (Riso, 103).
Competence. The faith of those of the Inventive type is "in their ability to improvise something, and they display an unusual talent for rising to the expediency of a situation (Keirsey, 184)." Their focus is on competent excellence in performance.
Innovation. The Inventive type maintains an independent view and is "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things always have been done (Keirsey, 183)." They are inventors and innovators.
Cleverness. They are mentally bright and quick-witted. For those of the Inventive type "to be taken in, to be manipulated by another, is humiliating; this offends their joy in being masters of the art of oneupmanship (Keirsey, 185)."
Status. They are highly competitive in pursuit of success and prestige. They want very much to be outstanding in some way (Riso, 103), to gain recognition, even fame and glory.
Self-consciousness. Persons of the Inventive type look to others for approval (Reich, 47). They are very conscious of how others treat them (Riso, 103) and highly sensitive to criticism (Oldham, 89) and negative evaluation.
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
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Pata_Pata
Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 01:47:02 AM
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Hawaii is culturally diverse, but the population of Africans/African Americans is only 2-3% and that's after about a 25% increase in 2000-2005. It also has the largest population of 'mixed race' peoples, so I think it would have been a "comfortable" environment for Obama. I believe his identity issues are intrinsic to his personality and that he was looking at the bigger world outside of Hawaii, where the world neglects his white heritage, thus exacerbating his identity issues.quote:
Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
His own identity and value were problematic, being the child of mixed-race parents, having an abandoning and absent father, and living much of his life with his white grandparents in racially and culturally diverse Hawaii.
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
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Pata_Pata
Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 02:38:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Those multitudes come from a rare background that has given him an understanding and tolerance for diversity.
Those "multitudes" were/are not rare in Hawaii - again, where they have the largest population of mixed races/ethnicities.quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Then again.. maybe Obama is a secret sneaky socialist 3w4 who is brilliantly manipulating the public while crafting humanitarian legislation that calls upon our highest nature rather than our lowest. The evil of being herded into being less selfish and more aware... by a 3 no less! Oh, what a dastardly ploy.
If we could look forward to Obama "crafting humanitarian legislation" we would have heard something from him regarding the Gaza crisis.
And though it pains me (somewhat)... I have to agree with Kuhner in his post on this page: quote:
Dennis Kucinich is the prototypical 9w1 so/sp XNFP...still goal-oriented...gets fuzzy, worked up, and excited like an integrated 9...but still embodies a quintessential nostalgia that keeps him out of touch with the modern beat. (I suppose being sx-first or second would loosen him up a bit)
Incidently, Kucinich the "real idealistic Nine" has stood up and said something about the Gaza crisis and has already drafted resolution to present for a cease-fire. Now THAT is humanitarian idealism one would expect of a "peace-making, uniting" Nine.
____________________________
"I believe I can sing anything." |
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Pata_Pata
Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 02:52:23 AM
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Well, if personal anecdotes are proof, I can cite many Nines I know that are nothing like Obama! However, speaking of one of my absolute favorite Nines, the sister of my favorite Seven -- is quite driven and accomplished. At thirty, she had traveled most of the world, gotten her PhD in Electrical Engineering, owns her own home in an exclusive area of Los Angeles, could easily be a professional singer and pianist; and yet, she would give all that up to have the opportunity to write creatively. She's written a text (or two), but her idea is to write about her ideas/ideals... NOT about herself and her life! She's extremely giving - and it's heartfelt and one who could and does sleep 10-12 hours per day most days.. and still accomplishes more than most other people.
But ambition is not what has driven her, she's brilliant so most things come fairly easy to her -- and it was her family that encouraged her to continue on and get her degree, when she was more inclined to quit within a year of finishing... just to write. And even now, she's got lots of opportunities which would be lucrative for her, but she still maintains a very low-profile life. With all she does and her accomplishments, she doesn't lose sight of the bigger picture -- humanity and is always involved in some humanitarian outreach. She's very healthy and one could find parallels between she and Obama, but there is a strong noticeable difference between the two of them.quote:
Originally posted by pork
A description similar to that could apply to my stepfather, a 9w8 SX/SO. He's a pragmatist in the service of ideals, and his obvious investment in the furthering of his rank has paid off. Nobody cajoled him into his job, either. He is driven at core, it seems, by the need to provide for his loved ones.
____________________________
"I believe I can sing anything." |
Edited by - Pata_Pata on 14 Jan 2009 03:13:05 AM |
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Pata_Pata
Member
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Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 04:06:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Obama has pledged to be a uniter once in office. He's also said he is willing to take policy suggestions from any source, regardless of ideological affiliation, as long as they work. So far, he's living up to his word...
His most prominent campaign message was CHANGE and that's what people were desperately HOPING for... so far, there appears to be little change from Bush and/or what McCain would have done. That is the source of discontentment from those who thought his campaign message of CHANGE was sincere.
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
Yes, indeed... he is living up to his word. The same droning words he has been saying for years and years and years and years.
It's not like the left has been conned. Obama has been consistent and honest from get go. Maybe deep down we were hoping that it was spin in order for him to get elected. But, alas, it was not.
Obama has a steadfast belief system. Yes he does.
Democrats are going to have to be big... even though so many want to kick the republican cats.
It's becoming clear, Democrats are not much different than Republicans... yes, there are some differences, but the politicians are essentially the same -- no CHANGE between one or the other. This is ripe time for third party candidates to step up to the plate, if not, we will most likely see a major shift in 2010 and 2012 back to the GOP, when progressive liberal Democrats abandon Obama in droves.
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
Edited by - Pata_Pata on 14 Jan 2009 04:06:58 AM |
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Pata_Pata
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Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 05:09:45 AM
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I can't/don't see Palin as a Seven at all, she seems very much like a Six - 6w7 (with a 'light' 7-wing). If Palin were a Seven, I would expect to see some connection to E5 (even at average health levels) and although you all consider her a "fast-learner", I see her as the opposite. Under stress, she gets scattered and anxious and that's what causes her to put her foot in her mouth.
Plus, anyone who's followed her closely will see how much influence her husband has on her and her political and personal decision making. I don't believe a Seven, especially a 7w8 would be as malleable as Palin is.
Here's an interesting 'article' regarding Palin's dogmatic followings:
New revelations re "stealth dominionist" Sarah Palin
There are several other articles by this diarist dogemperor which describe some of the more troubling issues regarding Palin and her followings.quote:
Originally posted by The Enneagram Institute
Palin is an example of an average Seven who gets herself into trouble by talking about things she does not know about and then attempting to change the subject, or by trying to talk her way out of her missteps. In short, like average Sevens, she can be too talkative and unfortunately, and during the campaign, she kept putting her foot in her mouth. Like many Sevens, she is also unpredictable, perhaps one of the reasons why the press gives her so much attention since they never know what she will say next.
We see Palin as someone who is funny, perky, and sassy—a fast-learner, and who has a lot of self-confidence. She is also energetic, ambitious, and is not afraid to speak her mind, even when she is ill-informed. However, like other average Sevens, she also tends to be superficial and glib, attempting to “wing it” with answers to reporters, even when she has been briefed by her staff.
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
Edited by - Pata_Pata on 14 Jan 2009 06:38:09 AM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 08:34:53 AM
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quote:
It's becoming clear, Democrats are not much different than Republicans... yes, there are some differences, but the politicians are essentially the same -- no CHANGE between one or the other. This is ripe time for third party candidates to step up to the plate, if not, we will most likely see a major shift in 2010 and 2012 back to the GOP, when progressive liberal Democrats abandon Obama in droves. .
Few progressive liberal democrats will vote third party over democrats and Obama in 2010 or 2012. Obama will give them what they want most.. even if it takes a little longer than they want. The Irony is that it will be the highly educated conservatives that help give it to them. Obama is working it.
If you look into his past you will find he won the presidency of the Harvard Law Review by getting all the conservatives to back him at the last moment. Then he went on and ran a more balanced but nonetheless 'progressive' leaning Law review.
“What’s past is prologue." And that has never been more true than with steadfast Obama.
Progressives leaving by droves, in a Rush wet dream. Unless Obama turns into Rush it will not happen. And that will not happen.
Obama has been far too honest and consistent, all through out his life and campaign, about his belief system of compromise for the far left to feel betrayed at a deep level. Also, it is very clear Obama is a humanitarian liberal at heart. He comes from a far left place to reach a middle. That middle will lean more left than right when reached. Same as ever.. in Obama world.
What Obama will do is grow the hold democrats have on the middle.
The middle just loves him and those are the swing voters. Obama has got his base. They might not love him but they will like him enough.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 14 Jan 2009 10:41:16 AM |
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lilalove
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13571 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 09:53:04 AM
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quote:
His most prominent campaign message was CHANGE and that's what people were desperately HOPING for... so far, there appears to be little change from Bush and/or what McCain would have done. That is the source of discontentment from those who thought his campaign message of CHANGE was sincere.
You must not have been paying attention.
Obama's campaign promise of "change" was to change Washington by, first and foremost, ending partisan bickering with the renewal of bipartisanship.
The second was a promise of more transparency and accountability. Obama is having legislation written up, as we speak, on those matters.
Barack Obama.
Indianapolis, IN | May 03, 2008
When I began this campaign for the presidency, I said I was running because I believed that the size of our challenges had outgrown the smallness of our politics in Washington - the pettiness and the game-playing and the influence-peddling that always prevents us from solving the problems we face year after year after year.
I ran because I believed that this year - that this moment - was too important to let that happen again. And I had faith that you believed that too - that you were ready for something different; that you were hungry for something new.
Fifteen months later, we're already doing what none of the cynics in Washington thought we could do. In the face of a politics that's tried to divide us and distract us and make this campaign about who's up and who's down and who-said-what-about-who, we've built a movement of Americans from every race and region and party who desperately want change in Washington.
I have no illusions about how far we have to go. Our road is still long. Our climb is still steep. But fifteen months later, I also know that our mission is even more urgent because the challenges facing people across Indiana and the country are growing by the day.
I'm not telling you anything you don't know.
You don't have to turn on the news or follow the stock tickers or wait for all the economists and politicians to agree on what is or is not a recession to know that our economy is in serious trouble. You can feel it in your own lives. And I hear it everywhere I go. Like the young man I met in Pennsylvania who lost his job but can't afford the gas to drive around and look for a new one. Or the woman from Anderson who just lost her job, and her pension, and her insurance when the Delphi plant closed down - even while the top executives walked away with multi-million-dollar bonuses. Or the families across this country who will sit around the kitchen table tonight and wonder whether next week's paycheck will be enough to cover next month's bills - who will look at their children without knowing if they'll be able to give them the same chances that they had.
But here's what Washington and Wall Street don't get:
This economy doesn't just jeopardize our financial well-being, it offends the most basic values that have made this country what it is: the idea that America is the place where you can make it if you try. That no matter how much money you start with or where you come from or who your parents are, opportunity is yours if you're willing to reach for it and work for it. It's the idea that while there are no guarantees in life, you should able to count on a job that pays the bills; health care for when you get sick; a pension for when you retire; an education for your children that will allow them to fulfill their God-given potential. That's who we are as a country. That's the America most of us here know. It's the America our parents and our grandparents grew up knowing.
This is the country that gave my grandfather a chance to go to college on the GI Bill when he came home from World War II; a country that gave him and my grandmother - a small-town couple from Kansas - the chance to buy their first home with a loan from the government.
This is the country that made it possible for my mother - a single parent who had to go on food stamps at one point - to send my sister and me to the best schools in the country with the help of scholarships.
This is the country that allowed my father-in-law - a city worker at a South Side water filtration plant - to provide for his wife and two children on a single salary. This is a man who was diagnosed at age thirty with multiple sclerosis - who relied on a walker to get himself to work. And yet, every day he went, and he labored, and he sent my wife and her brother to one of the best colleges in the nation.
That job didn't just give him a paycheck, it gave him dignity and self-worth. It was an America that didn't just reward and honor wealth, but the work and the workers who helped create it.
And we are here today looking for the answer to the same question:
Where is that America today?
How many veterans come home from this war without the care they need - how many wander the streets of the richest country on Earth without a roof over their heads? How many single parents can't even afford to send their children to the doctor when they get sick, never mind to four years of college? How many workers have suffered the indignity of having to compete with their own children for a minimum wage job at McDonalds after they gave their lives to a company where the CEO just walked off with that multi-million dollar bonus?
And most of all, how many years - how many decades - have we talked and talked and talked about these problems while Washington has done nothing, or tinkered, or made them worse.
There is no doubt that many of these challenges have to do with fundamental shifts in our economy that began decades ago - changes that have torn down borders and barriers and allowed companies to send jobs wherever there's a cheap source of labor. And today, with countries like China and India educating their children longer and better, and revolutions in communication and technology, they can send the jobs wherever there's an internet connection.
I saw the beginnings of these changes up close when I moved to the South Side of Chicago more than two decades ago to help neighborhoods that were devastated when the local steel plant closed. I saw the indignity of joblessness and the hopelessness of lost opportunity.
But I also saw that we are not powerless in the face of these challenges. We don't have to sit here and watch our leaders do nothing. I learned that we don't have to consign our children to a future of diminished dreams - a future of fewer opportunities. And that's why I'm running for President today. Politics didn't lead me to working people - working people led me to politics.
I'm running because we can't afford to settle for a Washington where John McCain gets the chance to give us four more years of the same Bush policies that have failed us for the last eight. More tax breaks for the same corporations that ship our jobs overseas. More of the trickle-down, on-your-own philosophy that says there's nothing government can do about the problems we face - so we might as well just hand out a few tax breaks and tell people to buy their own health care, their own education, their own roads, their own bridges. That hasn't worked in the past, and it won't work for our future.
We can't afford to settle for a Washington where politicians only focus on how to win instead of why we should.
I wish I could stand up here and tell you that we could fix our energy problems with a holiday. I wish I could tell you that we can take a time-out from trade and bring back the jobs that have gone overseas. I wish I could promise that on day one of my presidency, I could pass every plan and proposal I've outlined in this campaign.
But my guess is that you've heard those promises before. You hear them every year, in every election. And afterwards, when everyone goes back to Washington, the game-playing, and the influence-peddling, and the petty bickering continues. Nothing gets done. And four years later, we're right back here making the very same promises about the very same problems.
Well this year you have a choice. If you want to take another chance on the same kind of politics we've come to know in Washington, there are other candidates to choose from.
But I still believe we need to fundamentally change Washington if we want change in America. I still believe this election is bigger than me, or Senator Clinton, or Senator McCain. It's bigger than Democrats versus Republicans.
It's about who we are as Americans. It's about whether this country, at this moment, will continue to stand by while the wealthy few prosper at the expense of the hardworking many, or whether we'll stand up and reclaim the American dream for every American. It's about whether we'll watch the Chinas and the Indias of the world move past us, or whether we'll decide that in the 21st century, the home of innovation, and discovery, and progress will still be the United States of America.
Reclaiming this dream will take more than one election. It will take more than one person or one party. It will take the effort and sacrifice of a nation united. And that's the truth.
We can provide relief that's more than a holiday to families who are struggling in this economy. I'm the only candidate who's proposed a genuine middle-class tax cut that's paid for in part by closing corporate loopholes and shutting down tax havens. It would save nearly every working family $1,000, eliminate income taxes for seniors making under $50,000, and provide a mortgage tax credit to struggling homeowners that would cover ten percent of their mortgage interest payment every year.
I also have a health care plan that would save the average family $2,500 on their premiums and provide the uninsured with the same kind of health care Members of Congress give themselves. That's real relief, but we can only pay for this if we finally rollback the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of Americans who don't need them and weren't even asking for them.
We may not be able to bring back all the jobs that we've lost to trade, but we can create tomorrow's jobs in this country. I happen to believe in free trade. But we do the cause of trade no favors when we pass agreements that are filled with perks for every special interest under the sun and absolutely no protections for American workers. There's absolutely no reason we should be giving tax breaks to corporations who ship jobs overseas. When I'm President, I will eliminate those tax breaks and give them to companies who create good jobs right here in America.
We can also create jobs if we finally get serious about rebuilding our crumbling and decaying national infrastructure. A few years ago, one out of three urban bridges were classified as structurally deficient, and we all saw the tragic results of what that could mean in Minnesota last year. It's unacceptable. That's why I'm proposing a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank that will invest $60 billion over ten years and generate nearly two million new jobs - many of them in the construction industry that's been hard hit by this housing crisis. The repairs will be determined not by politics, but by what will maximize our safety. And we'll fund this bank by ending this war in Iraq. It's time to stop spending billions of dollars a week trying to put Iraq back together and start spending the money on putting America back together instead.
And if want to take a permanent holiday from our oil addiction, we can finally get serious about energy independence and create five million new green jobs in the process - jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced. We'll do what I did when I went to Detroit and tell the automakers it's time they raised fuel mileage standards in this country. We'll make companies pay for the pollution they release into the air, we'll tax the record profits of the oil companies, and we'll use that money to invest in clean, affordable, renewable energy like solar power, and wind power, and biofuels.
I'll be honest - this transition to a green economy won't come without costs that all of us will have to pay, but it's the only way we'll free ourselves from the whims of Middle East dictator; the only way we'll make sure we're not talking about high gas prices five years from now and ten years from now; the only way we can pass on a planet that's still recognizable to our children and their children.
And if we want our children to succeed in this global economy - if we want them to be able to compete with children in Beijing and Bangalore - then we need to make sure that every child, everywhere gets a world-class education, from the day they're born until the day they graduate college. That means investing in early childhood education. It means that we need to recruit an army of new teachers by not just talking about how great teachers are, but rewarding them for their greatness with better pay and more support. And it means that in this country - in this global economy - we will not create a small class of the educated few by allowing thousands and thousands of young people to be priced out of college year after year. We are better than that. When I'm President, we'll create a bargain with every American who wants to go to college: we will pay for your tuition if you serve your country in some way for two years after you graduate.
Real relief for middle-class families, seniors, and homeowners. Lower premiums for those who have health care and coverage for everyone who wants it. Five million green jobs right here in America. A world-class education that will allow every American to reach their God-given potential and compete with any worker in the world.
All of this is possible, but it's just a list of policies until you decide that it's time to make the Washington we have look like the America we know - one where the future is not determined by those with money and influence; where common sense and honesty are cherished values; where we are stronger than that which divides us because we realize that in the end, we rise or fall as one nation - as one people.
It was forty years ago this May that Robert Kennedy took his unlikely campaign to create a new kind of politics to Indiana. And as he campaigned in Fort Wayne, he laid out a vision that America we know. He said, "Income and education and homes do not make a nation. Nor do land and borders. Shared ideals and principles, joined purposes and hopes - these make a nation. And that is our great task."
It is still our task today.
We've always known this wouldn't be easy. The change we're looking for never is. Generations before us have fought wars and revolutions; they've struggled and they've sacrificed; they've stood up and spoke out and marched through the streets for the opportunities that we enjoy.
And that's why the only way a black guy named Barack Obama who was born in Hawaii, and started his career on the streets of Chicago, can win this race - if you decide that you've had enough of the way things are; if you decide that this election is bigger than flag pins and sniper fire and the comments of a former pastor - bigger than the differences between what we look like or where we come from or what party we belong to.
And if you do - if you decide that this moment is about what kind of country we'll be in the next year and the next century; about how we'll provide jobs to the jobless and opportunity to those without it; about health care and good schools and a green planet; about giving our children a better world and a brighter future - then I ask you to enlist your neighbors, and knock on doors, and work your heart out from now until Tuesday. In the face of all cynicism, and doubt, and fear, I ask you to remember what makes a nation - and to believe that we can once again make this nation the land of limitless possibility and unyielding hope - the place where you can still make it if you try. Thank you, and may God Bless the United States of America.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 14 Jan 2009 11:11:28 AM |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 12:09:02 PM
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quote:
If we could look forward to Obama "crafting humanitarian legislation" we would have heard something from him regarding the Gaza crisis.
In less than a week we will hear of his plans.
As I have already explained, the POTUS holds the office of Commander and Chief. It is a distinct branch of government granted by our constitution to the POTUS. It would be highly inappropriate for Obama to take a lead regarding Gaza until he is sworn in. It would weaken our current POTUS, even more, in a time of transition. That could be dangerous for the USA.
There is no danger in Obama taking the lead on the domestic front. As Bush has allowed him to do.
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 14 Jan 2009 3:48:23 PM |
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splawrence
Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 3:54:40 PM
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In 2005 The Atlantic published an article on Lincoln and his depressions. There may be parallels in Obama's life. Do generally healthy Threes get depressed as Lincoln did? Here is an excerpt about one depression, after a young woman friend had died of typhoid fever:
"As to the condition of Lincoln's Mind after the death of Miss R.," Henry McHenry, a farmer in the area, recalled, "after that Event he seemed quite changed, he seemed Retired, & loved Solitude, he seemed wraped in profound thought, indifferent, to transpiring Events, had but Little to say, but would take his gun and wander off in the woods by him self, away from the association of even those he most esteemed, this gloom seemed to deepen for some time, so as to give anxiety to his friends in regard to his Mind." |
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Pata_Pata
Member
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Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 4:14:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
As I have already explained, the POTUS holds the office of Commander and Chief. It is a distinct branch of government granted by our constitution to the POTUS.
Wiki: CICquote:
A commander-in-chief is the commander of a nation's military forces or significant element of those forces. In the latter case, the force element may be defined as those forces within a particular region or those forces which are associated by function. As a practical term it refers to the military competencies that reside in a nation-state's executive, head of state or government. Often, a given country's commander-in-chief need not be or have been a commissioned officer or even a veteran, and it is by this legal statute that civilian control of the military is realized in states where it is constitutionally required.
The Constitution of the United States gives the title to the President of the United States, who "shall be Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States" (see the 1941 Declarations of War[1] against Japan and Germany for how this call is made).
Perhaps you can explain again, what exactly "Commander and Chief" is?
quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
It would be highly inappropriate for Obama to take a lead regarding Gaza until he is sworn in.
Mentioning his thoughts and regards to those killed is not inappropriate. Mentioning even a brief acknowledgement of the enormity of the situation during one of his weekly addresses to the nation, would have gone a long way in defining a sincere humanitarian character.
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
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Pata_Pata
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Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 5:13:57 PM
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Well, I was really trying (perhaps not enough) to minimize the politics and focus on what type Obama is... in that respect, perhaps you could outline what in that speech of his supports E9 over E3?
I'll take a wait and see attitude about the promises of change - we've got time for that. But I'm not feeling the transparency and accountability and primarily due to the bailout. Please note, I'm referring to the bailout money, not the economic stimulus package.
$350 Billion has already been spent and no one really knows where it's gone, as there was less oversight drafted into the bailout. Has it helped with credit lending? Well, this is where I have no option but to pay attention. On a personal level, I will tell you my credit scores are between 700 and 725 between the three credit agencies. I recently had ONE late payment to the ONE credit card I use, primarily for travel purposes -- and they revoked my card! I've had the card since 1999... obtained when I was making much less money, had more credit liabilities and had many more late payments and a lower credit score. This "bailout" was to provide the banks with more opportunities for lending -- my situation is small compared to others, but the "bailout" does not seem to be helping people to get credit... if my situation is any indication. It's not such a problem for me, as I can keep enough in my accounts to cover business expenses. But the fact that we taxpayers re-distributed $350 Billion, not knowing where or who it's gone to, and without any noticeable difference in the credit market is not a good sign to me... and most certainly not an example of transparency or accountability.
I recently read where Obama has promised to veto any bill passed by Congress to block the distribution of the remaining $350 Billion... yes, bipartisanship it is and Bush and his financial elite cronies are loving it!quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
You must not have been paying attention.
Obama's campaign promise of "change" was to change Washington by, first and foremost, ending partisan bickering with the renewal of bipartisanship.
The second was a promise of more transparency and accountability. Obama is having legislation written up, as we speak, on those matters.
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 5:14:04 PM
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quote:
Perhaps you can explain again, what exactly "Commander and Chief" is?
I believe you already have.
quote:
Mentioning his thoughts and regards to those killed is not inappropriate. Mentioning even a brief acknowledgement of the enormity of the situation during one of his weekly addresses to the nation, would have gone a long way in defining a sincere humanitarian character.
I believe he already has.
January 7th, 2009
In the past two days, he [Obama] has only voiced great concern about civilian deaths. When asked on Wednesday why he refused to give a more in-depth reaction to the situation, he again deferred to President George W. Bush.
“We cannot be sending a message to the world that there are two different administrations conducting foreign policy,” he said. “Until I take office, it would be imprudent of me to start sending out signals that somehow we are running foreign policy when I am not legally authorized to do so.”
Asked if he was concerned about criticism from the region that he had been too quiet about a major foreign policy challenge that will face him soon, Obama said:
“I can’t control how people interpret what I’m saying, other than to repeat what I said. Hopefully, they hear my message.”
“This silence is not as a consequence of a lack of concern. In fact, it’s not silence. I’ve explained very clearly exactly what institutional constraints I’m under when it comes to this issue.”
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMWja4tPXwE
The super real sx/so
6w7-4w3-9w8 |
Edited by - lilalove on 14 Jan 2009 5:20:04 PM |
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pork
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Pata_Pata
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Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 5:24:20 PM
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He's right, he cannot "control" how others will interpret what he's saying. I perceive a lack of sincere warmth and feeling in how little he said and how he said it. This to me is more indicative of someone who either lacks feeling, or in the case of an E3 is putting their emotional reactions aside to go forward with what he believes his goals are.quote:
Originally posted by lilalove
I believe he already has.
January 7th, 2009
In the past two days, he [Obama] has only voiced great concern about civilian deaths. When asked on Wednesday why he refused to give a more in-depth reaction to the situation, he again deferred to President George W. Bush.
“We cannot be sending a message to the world that there are two different administrations conducting foreign policy,” he said. “Until I take office, it would be imprudent of me to start sending out signals that somehow we are running foreign policy when I am not legally authorized to do so.”
Asked if he was concerned about criticism from the region that he had been too quiet about a major foreign policy challenge that will face him soon, Obama said:
“I can’t control how people interpret what I’m saying, other than to repeat what I said. Hopefully, they hear my message.”
“This silence is not as a consequence of a lack of concern. In fact, it’s not silence. I’ve explained very clearly exactly what institutional constraints I’m under when it comes to this issue.”
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMWja4tPXwE
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"I believe I can sing anything." |
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lilalove
Member
Haiti
13571 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2009 : 6:04:12 PM
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quote:
Well, I was really trying (perhaps not enough) to minimize the politics and focus on what type Obama is... in that respect, perhaps you could outline what in that speech of his supports E9 over E3?
I don't type by a single speech. I was simply educating you a little on what Obama meant by "change". You seemed a little lost on the issue.
quote:
But I'm not feeling the transparency and accountability and primarily due to the bailout. Please note, I'm referring to the bailout money, not the economic stimulus package.
Correct, Bush did zero to promote transparency and accountability with that spending. He is asleep at the wheel.
President-elect Barack Obama wants more transparency and strict guidelines for using the second $350 billion of the bailout fund Congress approved last fall to stabilize the nation's financial system.
Obama has asked his economic team to develop a set of principles to ensure more openness about how the money is spent and to focus on using it more to help homeowners and small businesses.
"Let's lay out very specifically some of the things that we are going to do with the next $350 billion of money," Mr. Obama said on ABC's "This Week." ''And I think that we can regain the confidence of both Congress and the American people that this is not just money that is being given to banks without any strings attached and nobody knows what happens, but rather that it is targeted very specifically at getting credit flowing again to businesses and families."
quote:
I recently read where Obama has promised to veto any bill passed by Congress to block the distribution of the remaining $350 Billion... yes, bipartisanship it is and Bush and his financial elite cronies are loving it!
In a related issue, the House could vote as soon as Thursday on legislation tightening the rules on the Wall Street bailout, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.
While making the program more transparent, the legislation also would refocus where the next batch of money is spent -- away from government investments in troubled banks and toward reductions in home foreclosures and aid for cash-strapped towns and cities suffering during the economic recession.
The fate of the bill was less certain in the Senate.
Hoyer said that even if the bill, written by House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank of Massachusetts, is not enacted into law, its provisions likely would be enforced by the Obama administration.
"In the event it doesn't pass, the (Obama) administration is very likely to indicate it intends to follow the provisions relatively closely," said Hoyer, of Maryland.
Sen. James Inhofe, an Oklahoma Republican who opposes releasing the next $350 billion, noted the difficulty he and his colleagues face because of the large majorities that would be needed in the House and Senate to challenge Obama.
"I do think in that respect, it's a 'fait accompli,'" Inhofe said. But he said lawmakers should ensure there is better oversight of the use of the money.
http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/n13402759-us-financial-bailout/
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2008 Presidential Candidates (Second Edition)
