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emoot
Member
USA
787 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 1:48:16 PM
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I don't know why I feel compelled to update everyone on a personality board about my health issues.....
But, maybe it is because there has been some speculation that my gastrointestinal issues were anxiety related....and making me seem like a 6w5......who knows I stil may be a 6w5, although I still don't feel like one.
It seems my ulcer situation may have been the product of a gallbladder gone bad! My regular doc couldn't seem to help me relieve the symptoms so I had to go to the Gastroenterologist.....ugh....more tests.
First thing he did was test......my gallbladder....
It is so weird because I had an upper GI and it seemed to be working fine.... but my Gastroenterologist made me do this test called a Hyda Gallbladder Ejection Fraction.... which I kept calling Gallbladder Ejection Frisbee and had the mental picture of my gallbladder flying through the lab.....and possibly being retrieved by a border collie.
Anyway.... what it actually does is tests the ability of the gallbladdder to do its job which is to put out bile to break down protein and fat....
Regular Gallbladder function is considered to be 35% and above..... and mine was at 15%! Sheesh !
Next thing the nurse asks me ....."Do you have a surgeon you prefer?"
My answer....."Let me check my roladex list of surgeons."
Then I told her to just pick one out.
Gotta go under the knife..... but hopefully...I'll be able to eat like a normal person again.
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Ewald
Member
Netherlands
2531 Posts |
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emoot
Member
USA
787 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 4:35:23 PM
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Thanks ewald,
I haven't actually had a gallbladder attack yet(but I've been afraid I might get one considering how badly my gallbladder seems to be functioning...... I just can't tolerate any form of fat or meat......
I looked into the acupuncture and there is some good info out there......also while I was surfing in that area... I ran into some diet remedies......some of which I was already doing.
That info gave me confidence that I can keep things under control with my diet too.
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Edited by - emoot on 10 Sep 2004 4:36:26 PM |
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AbstractDonut
Member
77 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 6:13:35 PM
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| What do you do to make your gallbladder work properly? I mean what things promote gallbladder health? |
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emoot
Member
USA
787 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2004 : 10:42:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AbstractDonut
What do you do to make your gallbladder work properly? I mean what things promote gallbladder health?
It seems my situation is heredity(possibly the highest risk factor in development).... both my mom and dad have had gallbladder problems and stones.... I was afraid that it was only a matter of time before mine went kaput...
As far as prevention.....This is what I have seen so far......
The two I would add: Don't skip meals(it causes the gallbladder to have irregular output), Don't eat a lot of fat, fried food or red meat.
Prevention
There is now enough known about gallstones that certain recommendations can be made about how to prevent them in the first place. Some of this knowledge is pretty firm while some is only suggestive at this time.
Hard Evidence -- Achieve and maintain ideal body weight but do not lose more than 3 lbs per week, especially using the super low-calorie liquid fasting diets.
Soft Evidence -- Increased fiber in the diet, vitamin C (no more than 500 mg a day) and caffeinated coffee may all be helpful. Additionally, regular recreational and physical activity - vigorous walking, gardening, aerobics - seem to have protective value.
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Edited by - emoot on 11 Sep 2004 1:01:29 PM |
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Laurie
Member
1602 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2004 : 08:32:07 AM
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Hi Emoot
I had a friend a long time ago whose husband developed gallbladder problems and was to go to surgery. She embarked on changing his diet and the problem went away. I do not know what the diet was. Hope things go smoothly for you.
Laurie 1w2 ENTJ |
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Lenten rose
Member
409 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2004 : 09:33:04 AM
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emoot-
I just knew coffee was a gift from the gods. Good luck with the diet change. I'm all for avoiding surgery when ya can. That said, have known a couple women who had their gallbladder removed after years of misery with it, and they both said it was such a relief to get rid of it. Anyway, hope it goes well, whatever you decide to do.
Lr4w5 |
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emoot
Member
USA
787 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2004 : 1:07:29 PM
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Laurie and LR....
Thanks for the input and good vibes...
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Crooner
Member
USA
3968 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2004 : 2:33:01 PM
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Dear Emoot -
I hope your operation went well. Below is an excerpt from Eli Jaxon-Bear's book (The Enneagram of Liberation) that may interest you.
quote:
The defense mechanism of the Four is Introjection… they take all negative emotions from the environment and swallow them whole… Fours take on all negativity as their own… rather than defending against the negativity in the world, they believe it is their fault. The following story was shared by a Four:
"I know I take in a lot of feelings from others. I didn't realize this until later in my life. At the age of 21 I had my gallbladder removed. I later found out that gallbladder disease typically happens to somebody who is swallowing feelings. I was a classic example of this kid who took on all the feelings of the family. I grew up in a pretty intense household, and by the time I was 21, I had a disease that normally a 60- or 70-year-old person gets. It was pretty extreme."
And here's a description of Fours dropping to their One core:
quote:
A Four dropping into the core acts like a One. When Fours feel relaxed, open, and off guard, they will tend to become angry perfectionists… The possibility is to feel the angry, internalized self-hatred of the One without moving. Falling in beyond this reveals the purity of essential perfection. When a Four has dropped beyond the fixation, this purity shines forth as a clear light to guide other home.
Take care,
Crooner |
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entre1
Member
4444 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2004 : 2:38:05 PM
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| Do a gallbladder flush to get the stones out before you commit to letting the doctors amputate you. You got nothing to lose. |
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shakti
Member
USA
8529 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 02:05:38 AM
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Hi emoot, I see you just posted. brainstorm posted some pics recently, but he can make things up sometimes. Hoping the surgery went well.
Anne |
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.ron4
Member
10081 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 02:30:56 AM
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Hi emoot
hope you are doing fine and here is a little something that might help
"klonk,klonk,klonk,klonk,klonk,klonk,klonk"
.ron4 |
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shakti
Member
USA
8529 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 02:55:18 AM
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.ron4, nice cowbell.
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.ron4
Member
10081 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 03:56:52 AM
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Hey Blue, thanks
hope all is good for you.
klonk klonk
.ron4 |
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emoot
Member
USA
787 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 11:38:09 AM
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Hey, thanks, everybody......
Despite the initial irrational feeling of violation, the surgery did go well. Athough for the first few days afterward I was quite out of it. The pain was a bit more than I had bargained .......It's so funny how you talk yourself into thinking that just because it is outpatient surgery that it won't be much, but in the end it is still surgery and it comes with all the pain. I kept thinking it felt like four gunshot wounds in my gut.(Or maybe it was just the anesthesia, I hate that stuff....it makes me want to hurl.)
Anyways, I am doing better.. they took the staples out just Tuesday. The surgeon said everything looked good. They biopsied my gallbladder and found no cancer(WoOhOo!), but they did find a substantial amount of cholesterol crystals in it.
The surgeon said they weren't stones and weren't blocking anything but they were imbedded which was causing it to not work properly.
Just for a little added fun.... while I was in the recovery room, my heart started doing some weird stuff on the monitor....I told them I have a slight heart murmur, but the anesthesia bothers it and it was doing these odd things called couplets....actually it looked more like triplets to me, where it was spiking in threes rather than a one spike. It freaked out the nurse watching me, and she called down a doctor to come listen to my heart.... I was still in a fog and not really getting what they were saying but could tell something was up....and I started to freak a bit too. The doctor listened to my heart and said it was barely a murmur but that when I get better that I should go get a baseline EKG.
Sure thing, doc. Good thing my husband has two nurses in his family(one of them has a heart murmur)... I asked them about this and they confirmed it's a common thing. An EKG will be helpful for later down the road should anything go wrong.
BS - Hey, where'd you get those pics?  They wouldn't give me my gallbladder back, claiming something about it being against the law. I see now that pics of it have been duped a million times and spread all over cyberspace... talk about illegal!
Crooner- Cool! I am super absorbant.... I pick up twice as much as the other leading brands! It's just because I am quilted. 
Seriously, that's very interesting..... I've got to get that book. I do swallow a lot of emotional junk. It's so funny because, I thought it was something I swallowed literally....like too much fat.....but I have led a mostly lowfat life... so I was trying to figure out how being on the Atkins diet could have killed my gallbladder in just a few months....an emotional link would include years of mentally digesting tons of negativity. Thanks.
Ron and BL- You guys get the much coveted "Cowbell Award"!
Thanks!
Knowledge without Love is Truth without Beauty. |
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Shapeshifter
Member
1552 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 1:34:20 PM
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Hey emoot! Welcome back. Glad to hear you're doing well. It's been strange on the chat board and super-quiet on the main board in your absence. The monitors have been picking up couplets and triplets all over the place . Not saying it had anything to do with your absence, but who knows, maybe you can breathe a little life back into this place now that you're back.
^V^ |
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emoot
Member
USA
787 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2004 : 11:43:46 AM
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Thanks, JB.....
Knowledge without Love is Truth without Beauty. |
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Rosebud
Member
741 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2004 : 4:13:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Crooner
Dear Emoot -
I hope your operation went well. Below is an excerpt from Eli Jaxon-Bear's book (The Enneagram of Liberation) that may interest you.
quote:
The defense mechanism of the Four is Introjection… they take all negative emotions from the environment and swallow them whole… Fours take on all negativity as their own… rather than defending against the negativity in the world, they believe it is their fault.
Take care,
Crooner
i know this isn't the point of your post, but i was wondering anyway, since it was brought up and all, how could that definition of introjection (not refuting the accuracy or anything) be a form of defense for anyone? aren't defenses supposed to protect someone? i mean wouldn't a defense mechanism be the ego's mislead attempt to fight that which upsets the personality's status quo? maybe you know the answer, crooner. |
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john
Member
USA
3817 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 8:30:46 PM
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hi emoot glad the surgery went well...
..i'm curious what recommendations did you doctor have now that your gallbladder is removed ? did he recommend any supplements? replacement bile salts? dietary tips?
*=! |
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Crooner
Member
USA
3968 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 10:27:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosebud
i know this isn't the point of your post, but i was wondering anyway, since it was brought up and all, how could that definition of introjection (not refuting the accuracy or anything) be a form of defense for anyone? aren't defenses supposed to protect someone? i mean wouldn't a defense mechanism be the ego's mislead attempt to fight that which upsets the personality's status quo? maybe you know the answer, crooner.
Sorry, Rosebud -
I don’t know a whole lot about Psychology.
Nor do I know much about Fours, it seems.
Below are a couple definitions that I found.
quote:
Introjection -
1. (Psychology) Unconscious internalization of aspects of the world (especially aspects of persons) within the self in such a way that the internalized representation takes over the psychological functions of the external objects
2. (Psychoanalysis) The internalization of the parent figures and their values; leads to the formation of the superego.
The only thing that I can say about the second definition is that I believe
it’s the Threes who will try to reflect the positive values of the parents;
Fours mirror back the family’s Shadow material. For example, if the
parents have a phobia about interracial dating, then it’s the Four child
who will date interracially.
My understanding is that Fours do not feel adequately seen and mirrored.
So, in retribution, Fours mirror back the negative merging of their parents.
Crooner |
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kukicha
Member
USA
1932 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 11:15:01 PM
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how could that definition of introjection (not refuting the accuracy or anything) be a form of defense for anyone? aren't defenses supposed to protect someone? i mean wouldn't a defense mechanism be the ego's mislead attempt to fight that which upsets the personality's status quo? maybe you know the answer, crooner.
________________________________________
I *love* this question.
This is my answer.
In a sense I think that any response that recurs in a pattern can be seen as a defense.
How can this be so? How is thinking about/reacting to something enacting a defense?
Well, my thought is that this patterned, fixed thinking is like a fence. It creates a rigid cognitive entity. By rigid, I mean inflexible, unbending, less conscious, more ritualized. It's an entity that needs to be gotten over rather than interacted with. One could describe the enneagram as a way of decoding those fixed responses or unconscious cognitive strategies to which our minds tend to default.
Perhaps it can be seen as a defence against dealing with the pain of trying to think something through flexibly, and dealing with the attendant feelings and sensations that come up. Instead, one's mind takes the information and filters it in a particular way.
I'm not taking the time to edit this, so if it's too verbose i apologize.
best, |
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Rosebud
Member
741 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 11:37:04 PM
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you know what's weird? when i think about defenses i tend to be only able to think of them in relation to either myself or some separate person i'm familiar with. both views seem to draw me further away from what might actually be the truth. i do the same thing with E-Types. i think i have a handle on a type but then realize i'm thinking of this specific person i know who i believe operates out of that mode. if i then try to generalize it to others i get stuck with all the stacking variations and when i try to reduce the traits down to something that makes motivational-drive sense i come out with more possibilities of Type than i started with. (why am i capitalizing types?)
mirror, mirror on the way
who's the fairest of them all? |
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shakti
Member
USA
8529 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 12:50:29 AM
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Hi .ron4, hope all is well for you, too. I am better this week than last, but who knows how next week will be.
About introjection, thanks for the definition Crooner. I think introjection in a mild form is something we all do, when we carry on a relationship with someone else even if they are not present at the moment. If I were to write to my brother who I haven't seen in a decade, I would be communicating a bit with the inner brother I have. When we confuse our imagined inner object for the outer object, in a big way, perhaps it would qualify as introjection. And as kukicha alludes to, doing something automatically or perhaps using something as a default strategy would make introjection qualify as a personality defense.
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kukicha
Member
USA
1932 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 01:03:10 AM
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i think i have a handle on a type but then realize i'm thinking of this specific person i know who i believe operates out of that mode.
_____________________________________
i kept reading this trying to get a handle on the specifics...felt like i understood, and then realized that i really don't. in other words, i think this is true about me, but maybe i just don't get it.
doing something automatically or perhaps using something as a default strategy would make introjection qualify as a personality defense.
___________________
one of the reasons i think i understand the embittered, envious Four is that I used to carry on these intense imaginary confrontations in my head. i was angry that no one was rescuing me (still am, it's prob'ly safe to say) and i would Dwell on how person after person let me down (still do, though with more awareness).
so, if I'm not a Four I think it's safe to say I am Fourish in this respect. |
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Rosebud
Member
741 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 01:24:52 AM
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as a FOUR i can tell you that i know noone will rescue me. and if they did i'd probly think they were a loser for doing so.
maybe it's an age thing.
maybe it's a been there done that feeling i have, but to say i'm deluded into thinking i'd be rescued from life's laments is really a misunderstanding to say the least.
plus i don't know how that relates to a defense mechanism of introjection.
for past history people i'd say to reestablish a communication is compassionate on my part as i contemplate what they have offered me in the way of continuity, love, or positive vibes(very little) . those 'objects' that may have left an imprint are historical precisely because they did not grow me,
so why should i be defensive about them?
why should it not be far easier for me to leave that behind?
why the introjection [offensive term]?
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kukicha
Member
USA
1932 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 01:45:13 AM
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as a FOUR i can tell you that i know noone will rescue me. and if they did i'd probly think they were a loser for doing so.
Interesting.
Perhaps the only part that was Fourish was how I dealt with this need, rather than the need itself. Hmmmmmmmmm.
I think I read here or there that unhealthy Fours can get stuck in their emotions, then lean on others. Some Riso-Hudson thing or other. Part of why they go to the down side of Two is that they realize this can stress those others out and start looking for signs of resentment.
Have I got this all wrong
maybe it's an age thing.
I think it may be a little more complicated than that. Perhaps it’s a there are a lot of variables thing?
maybe it's a been there done that feeling i have, but to say i'm deluded into thinking i'd be rescued from life's laments is really a misunderstanding to say the least.
I don’t think I said or implied that you are awaiting rescue. Wait. Let me read...Nope, not that I can see. I don’t see anywhere where I said such a thang.
It seems to me like you’re reacting with a bit of intensity.  Am I right? If yes, why?
i don't know how that relates to a defense mechanism of introjection.
I think I’m pretty clear about this above, but it’s late so perhaps not. For me, my conversations with an imaginary other was about how s/he had abandoned me in my time of need for being overly intense or depressed or whatever...how s/he lacked courage, tenacity, the true stuff of friendship formed the substance of my introjection. to carry such an idea to an extreme, i was distressed about not being saved.
for past history people i'd say to reestablish a communication is compassionate on my part as i contemplate what they have offered me in the way of continuity, love, or positive vibes(very little) . those 'objects' that may have left an imprint are historical precisely because they did not grow me,
so why should i be defensive about them?
why should it not be far easier for me to leave that behind?why the introjection [offensive term]?
wow. Your writing becomes just about completely incomprehensible to me here. Color me lost, baby.
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Surgery
