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Glasgow
Member
Germany
6253 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 10:46:36 PM
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fist and blade together:
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I Am
Member
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2011 : 11:38:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Veiled One
Big cats and bears are the true aggressors of the wilderness, but they have the softest, fuzziest skin out there. Their menace is not that of hard armor as with prey animals that must protect themselves. I christian it the secret of the Eight.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
Yeah im trying to think of a better explanation but I can't, so yours is the closest thing to how I see it.
I feel like a cushion, but...different. Can't really describe it. Like...a big warm welcoming hug that can either be comforting/loving or strangle/smolder you into nothing. Usually restrained and holding back some as to not crush or suffocate. And at other times when im stressed out there's no hug at all, just coldness and you're not acknowledged at all. At least..thats how it feels to me.
8w7 Sx |
Edited by - I Am on 19 Jun 2011 11:55:25 PM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 12:06:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
The power was handed down to him and he replicates what his father taught him. That is why I was asking Bear, earlier, if Hitler's father was in the 'conquest/dictatorship' business.
Father figure does not have to be so literal as with Bashar. After all Germany just a generation ago had Otto von Bismarck and his 'blood and iron' policy. The seed of Fascism *is* long planted and only waits for a forest fire to germinate it. The forest fire is WWI.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
Edited by - Veiled One on 20 Jun 2011 12:07:15 AM |
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Odyssey
Member
3792 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 01:39:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Veiled One
quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
The power was handed down to him and he replicates what his father taught him. That is why I was asking Bear, earlier, if Hitler's father was in the 'conquest/dictatorship' business.
Father figure does not have to be so literal as with Bashar. After all Germany just a generation ago had Otto von Bismarck and his 'blood and iron' policy. The seed of Fascism *is* long planted and only waits for a forest fire to germinate it. The forest fire is WWI.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
Conquering the world is not a theory, it's a series of actions.
When it comes to theorizing, I'll put my money on the 6w5, no problem.
But when it comes to acting, I'll put my money on the 8.
I wouldn't trust a 6 to build an empire, as I wouldn't even trust a 6 to run a complex business... I work with a lot of people right now in one big room under one roof, so I get to observe them all day long. And, to put it mildly, 6s are not the best competitors out there, by a long stretch. Heck, even 3s aren't. In this cut-throat business, the 8s, 7s, and 1s have the leadership positions. And this is nothing compared to cutting real throats...
But what 8s, 7s, and 1s have that the other guys don't, is a thick skin and a heart of stone. It really helps in business, and even more in war.
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Roshan
Member
USA
4788 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 09:38:22 AM
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To Veiled One, Ganglion, and others
quote]Originally posted by Veiled One
Ganglion:
I looked at your website a bit....and your calculations are surprisingly accurate--half of the time. Which is actually impressive. I also see many of them which while not right on, are only one phase off (4w5s got typed as 5w4s etc). I don't know how much you use also other information (actual vibes obtained from interview samples) but if it's only via calculation, well it's an impressive formula.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
[/quote]
I've been watching this very carefully since Ganglion started on the board, because he typed me 6w7 with strong connection to both 3 and 9, and he typed Envy 3w4. Shortly after, on the 9w1 art thread I suggested Goya was probably a 9w1, and that Celine could also be one, and if really stretching it Alfred Jarry, but if not, that the last two would be Fives. He got them all as 5s. Then on the Freddy Mercury thread I thought he was a 6w7 based on some interviews but that was really stupid of me, and Ganglion nailed it at 7w8, a type I wasn't familiar with (if you recall, VO, I had that problem when I first came and thought Kathleen Turner was an 8).
So naturally I've been more than open to his system and followed his posts. My estimate has been 60 per cent accurate, not 50 (close to yours), and I have said it over and over on the threads, along with the evidence, but it never stopped the mudsinging at him, even on those same threads. Which says a lot about the general attitude here. (On the other hand his arrogance at times--yours, Ganglion--hasn't helped much).
It's so ironic how people are working with a system which is so new yet won't be open to a system which seems likely to have merit (because its results would be at odds with statistical probability). Sometimes Ganglion's (yours, Ganglion) calculations seem waaay off base to me. Which poses the quesion as to how could something be so right and so wrong at the same time? Could it be some kind of cosmic static and/or is there really some kind of cosmic force, entity, that is the Trickster? These questions arise when a clairvoyant is so often right on the money and at times soooo off base. (I have grappled with these questions a lot because this happens in my own system of divination. That's why I don't use it a lot anymore ...).
Or are we just plain wrong a lot of the time, simply don't understand the types on some fundamental level?
I haven't a clue as to the answers. But what I do know is that from the bird's eye view, this community should ask itself, is it really as open minded as it likes to think it is? |
Edited by - Roshan on 20 Jun 2011 2:37:12 PM |
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sunny
Member
USA
9596 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 10:09:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Roshan
To Veiled One, Ganglion, and others
quote]Originally posted by Veiled One
Ganglion:
I looked at your website a bit....and your calculations are surprisingly accurate--half of the time. Which is actually impressive. I also see many of them which while not right on, are only one phase off (4w5s got typed as 5w4s etc). I don't know how much you use also other information (actual vibes obtained from interview samples) but if it's only via calculation, well it's an impressive formula.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
I've been watching this very carefully since Ganglion started on the board, because he typed me 6w7 with strong connection to both 3 and 9, and he typed Envy 3w4. Shortly after, on the 9w1 art thread I suggested Goya was probably a 9w1, and that Celine could also be one, and if really stretching it Alfred Jarry, but if not, that they were 5s (but if not, that the last two would be Fives. He got them all as 5s. Then on the Freddy Mercury thread I thought he was a 6w7 based on some interviews but that was really stupid of me, and Ganglion nailed it at 7w8, a type I wasn't familiar with (if you , VO, I had that problem when I first came and thought Kathleen Turner was an 8).
So naturally I've bbeen more than open to his system and followed his post. My estimate has been 60 per cent accurate, not 50 (close to yours) and I have said it over and over on the threads, along with the evidence, but it never stopped the mudsinging at him, even on those same threads. Which says a lot about the general attitude here. (On the other hand his arrogance at times--your, Ganglion--hasn't helped much).
It's so ironic how people are working with a system which is so new yet won't be open to a system which seems likely to have merit (because its results would be at odds with statistical probability I think). Sometimes Ganglion's (yours, Ganglion) calculations seem waasy off base to me. Which posts the quesion as to how could something be so right and so wrong at the same time? Could it be some kind of cosmic static and/or is there really some kind of cosmic force that is the Trickster The same questions arise when a clairvoyant is about two thirds right and at times sooo off base. (I call it the God of the Whoopie Cushion and am well acquainted with it through my own system of divination...). Or are we just plain wrong a lot of the time, just don't understand the types on some fundamental level?
I haven't a clue as to the answers. But what I do know based on my experiences is that from the bird's eye view, this community should ask itself, are we really as open minded as it likes to think it is?
[/quote]
My reaction to that is this:
"this community should ask itself" ?? That's just your way of seeing it.
I'm a person with my own ideas about things, just like most other people. I don't see it as "the community"...one whole thing that is down on ganglion. My opinion is my own and not based on consensus. There might be a few here who go along with the crowd, but for the most part, I think boardees tend to keep their minds open. We're not a flock of sheep.
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Edited by - sunny on 20 Jun 2011 10:09:45 AM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 10:30:14 AM
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Hmm Roshan:
The half for me included those who are a phase off.....I noticed a distinct tendency for 4w3s to be mistyped as 4w5, 4w5 as 5w4 or 3w4, 7w6 as 6w7, 8w9 as 8w7, etc. But there are also some really egregious ones (Maria Callas as a 8w7? Grace Kelly too?)
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
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quartz
Member
1510 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 10:32:58 AM
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I am not down on Ganglion, he seems to be a nice person.
I am not down on his offering to type people via his method.
I do think the zeal with which he touts his method when he makes his offers, implies that he expects it to yield much greater than 50-60% accuracy.
If a questionnaire-style E. test gave only 50-60% accurate results, no one would use it. Even the RHETI at 85% is regarded by many as not reliable enough to bother with.
If the accuracy of his results is greater than random (as Roshan and VO report based on their perusal; I am taking their word on it b/c it doesn't interest me enough to read extensively on it myself), yet considerably less accurate than the main questionnaire-style tests, then it would appear to me that it is reason enough for interested parties to look into whether the current calculation model has overlooked some astronomical factor(s) or whether in fact there are factors that can't be accounted for by astronomy. Being statistically significant enough to warrant further research is different from being statistically significant enough to treat as a definitive means of typing.
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Edited by - quartz on 20 Jun 2011 10:35:31 AM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 10:41:30 AM
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Yes I agree Manda7panda. All I can say is that it is greater than random and that it's somehow significant, meaning there seems to be some correlation between astrological data and personality type. But there are far better methods out there for typing, certainly.
I don't think R&H tests are 85 percent accurate btw.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
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quartz
Member
1510 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 10:53:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Veiled One
I don't think R&H tests are 85 percent accurate btw.
Ah, you're right. I was pulling from memory and my memory was incorrect. http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/validated.asp Looks like the validation studies showed overall accuracy of RHETI to be roughly 72-82%; W of E states it is around 80% accurate; the breakdown shows that the accuracy varies quite a bit by type. (This has me wondering whether Ganglion's method is more accurate for some types than for others.)
Anyway my view is that self-typing is the best means even if it takes you 10 years to do it... but I don't mind using a test to corroborate or challenge my typing of someone who doesn't have the knowledge to self-type.
Is there someone around here who can channel Hitler and get him to self-type? Um... on second thought, that's probably a bad idea. So, uh, carry on....
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Edited by - quartz on 20 Jun 2011 10:58:39 AM |
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Roshan
Member
USA
4788 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 12:59:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Veiled One
Hmm Roshan:
The half for me included those who are a phase off.....I noticed a distinct tendency for 4w3s to be mistyped as 4w5, 4w5 as 5w4 or 3w4, 7w6 as 6w7, 8w9 as 8w7, etc. But there are also some really egregious ones (Maria Callas as a 8w7? Grace Kelly too?)
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck
Yeah, I know. There are some egregious ones, and that's what makes it all so puzzling, this big discrepancy between what is and what isn't. Again, there could be some kind of 'cosmic static' which interferes with the transmission of the information, or (and/or?) a real cosmic Tricksterish force. Or simply that there are fundamentals about the system that we don't understand yet. In terms of the basic types as well as how tritypes and stackings and to a certain extent even wings really do figure in. Also, more prosaically, a mistake in Ganglion's calculating here and there and erroneous birth dates given in the sources.
Typing 'the doctor' as a Two is one of my favorite egregiousness but Grace Kelly as an Eight is definitely up there, although Callas as an Eight might at least merit a discussion--her blow-ups, her defying the Met at great cost to her career, even physically in a couple of interviews of her I watched-but Grace Kelly, nope. Not in a million years.
Having said that, Ganglion has explained a few times that when people are up in the healthy range the typings are often off, probably because they embody all the types in a more balanced way than others. He's also explained that there are certain specific typings (beyond the close calls you mentioned) that frequently come out confused with specific others.
But still, so far it remains a mystery how a system whose rate of accuracy is statistically so beyond random isn't more consistent. |
Edited by - Roshan on 20 Jun 2011 1:31:22 PM |
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Roshan
Member
USA
4788 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 1:25:26 PM
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Veiled One, Manda Panda, Ganglion, JoL and others:
Yes, Manda, Ganglion's accuracy is beyond random. Perhaps the results are best used as corroboration when they come out the same as one's own. And also as a deciding vote when struggling between two typings, whether individually or as a group of knowledgeable people. Like with Ken Wilbur, Three or Five, or the many Nine disputes with Five or Four.
Again, at the end of the day, however much we may know about these people, we don't know them. This as a reminder to myself as much as to anyone else. Another thing, btw, and this mostly for JoL, it seems to me that this is something which, as a community at large, we often forget.((Meaning that in a way we don't want to remember, which is closedminded). As a community, I said, and from a birds eye view. Not as a "flock of sheep"... (More to come on this soon...) |
Edited by - Roshan on 20 Jun 2011 2:02:08 PM |
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
6253 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 1:33:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
But what 8s, 7s, and 1s have that the other guys don't, is a thick skin and a heart of stone. It really helps in business, and even more in war.
no, thick skin or heart of stone is not the the issue at point.
at work in a team the ability to assert oneself is primarly based on a clear standpoint and the businesslike expressing of your concern, self-confidence, self-efficacy, confidence reflected in the determined and assertive body language and behaviour ,
abilty to know about the standpoints of others,
not too aggressiv and not too shy, trying to get a win-win situation, avoiding to look obviously hard-nosed in a team, maby with a touch of humor and laid-back ( but focused  ..)
btw. as i've mentioned before hitler has a strange and narcistic vibe, seems beyond the reach of others , rather has a heart center vibe with that 8 touch but no head center vibe as to the movies and a lot of pics but that doesn't matter because primarly his motivations were crucial.
 
hitler misused the german fear of a civil war directly after wwI and the turbulent times in order to get influence and furthermore political power. ( before that he was in a hostel for the homeless for some month--fall and stand up-thats 8 business)
with his strong and persuasive speeches he began his career self-dependent as al lone fighter for the sake of truth and justice (8 issue)in pubs and guesthouses from the bottom and reached to the top as the leader of germany. SELF-MADE MAN ! he was persistent and very strong-willed and he needed the power to lead and make the important decisions as to germany in order to get his way and his revenge.
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Edited by - Glasgow on 20 Jun 2011 6:33:17 PM |
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ganglion
Member
Netherlands
1728 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 3:50:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Roshan
Veiled One, Manda Panda, Ganglion, JoL and others:
Yes, Manda, Ganglion's accuracy is beyond random.
Yes, and I´m convinced of that quit a while an as I said many times I never expected it. I still are excited when i calculate a poet like like Louise Bogan and would be shocked if i calculated a 3
Louise Bogan (35/8) was born on a 5, 7 and 9 day (21/3)
with 5 and 7 dynamics (12/3)
under 4, 5, 6 and 7 houses (22/4)
yielding a 5w4 or 7 (21/3)
0,10
0,00
0,00
0,86 on 4
12,58 on 5
0,11
9,97 on 7
0,11
1,01 on 9
quote:
Perhaps the results are best used as corroboration when they come out the same as one's own. And also as a deciding vote when struggling between two typings, whether individually or as a group of knowledgeable people. Like with Ken Wilbur, Three or Five, or the many Nine disputes with Five or Four.
Yes. Here one could argue if we see a 5 or 7. The scores (relative risks) do not differ that much. Maybe she is a 7 integrating to the 5 or a 5 with a difficult 35/8 birthpath (integration path) that escapes to the 7 under stress.
This is the reason why I always present the global end picture, which is much more informative than the rather cut off end statement yielding a 5w4 or 7 (21/3).
Because with statistics the principle is that even unlikely events can happen.
But having 50% or more hits when calculating thousands of e types (statistical hit chance 1/9) is astronomically small. So something special is really happening here.
For me this is a present/hint of G´d.
Ganglion |
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sunny
Member
USA
9596 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:09:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Roshan
Veiled One, Manda Panda, Ganglion, JoL and others:
Yes, Manda, Ganglion's accuracy is beyond random. Perhaps the results are best used as corroboration when they come out the same as one's own. And also as a deciding vote when struggling between two typings, whether individually or as a group of knowledgeable people. Like with Ken Wilbur, Three or Five, or the many Nine disputes with Five or Four.
Again, at the end of the day, however much we may know about these people, we don't know them. This as a reminder to myself as much as to anyone else. Another thing, btw, and this mostly for JoL, it seems to me that this is something which, as a community at large, we often forget.((Meaning that in a way we don't want to remember, which is closedminded). As a community, I said, and from a birds eye view. Not as a "flock of sheep"... (More to come on this soon...)
I will usually object to being included in "we" Roshan, because I don't live my life that way. I don't go along with the crowd...I have an aversion to it. I do participate on the board, but I'm an individual. I just don't like being included in: "we often forget". I don't forget.
It just seems like you're jumping to conclusions...like you're assuming that others are doing something that they aren't. There are a variety of opinions on every subject here, including ganglion's typing system.
It seems like this issue has come up before.
I hate being chastised. It really triggers me.
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
6253 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:14:35 PM
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quote:
Yeah im trying to think of a better explanation but I can't, so yours is the closest thing to how I see it.
I feel like a cushion, but...different. Can't really describe it. Like...a big warm welcoming hug that can either be comforting/loving or strangle/smolder you into nothing. Usually restrained and holding back some as to not crush or suffocate. And at other times when im stressed out there's no hug at all, just coldness and you're not acknowledged at all.
again,
so tell me why dont ya post your pic?
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sunny
Member
USA
9596 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:14:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Roshan
for JoL, it seems to me that this is something which, as a community at large, we often forget.((Meaning that in a way we don't want to remember, which is closedminded). As a community, I said, and from a birds eye view.
From your point of view Roshan. Who exactly is "we". Why do you assume that "the community" is being closed-minded?? Do we all have the same mind or something? Aren't we in fact, a group of individuals with our own opinions?
Not as a "flock of sheep"... (More to come on this soon...)
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Edited by - sunny on 20 Jun 2011 4:15:53 PM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:34:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ganglion
But having 50% or more hits when calculating thousands of e types (statistical hit chance 1/9) is astronomically small. So something special is really happening here.
For me this is a present/hint of G´d.
Ganglion
Now lets not get carried away already 
When I said one phase off I meant one phase in either direction....namely if a said 4w3 got mistyped as either 4w5 or 3w4 I counted them. The chance of one phase off plus target type/wing is 1/6, not 1/9. Also, for many people you mentioned "two" likely types, so with random sampling it will yield 2/9 chance of likelihood, unless I count wings then it becomes 1/9 (which I don't).
Also I don't know how many people you have included in the "original" samplars....namely those you have already known the types because you read R&H, or the said poets' writings, or biographies. I am sure it weighs in and it's not just random astrological calculations.
Not saying it is random....I don't think it is. But direct observation of said person's type vibes is still a better method.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
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Desdemona
Member
USA
15521 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:53:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
But what 8s, 7s, and 1s have that the other guys don't, is a thick skin and a heart of stone. It really helps in business, and even more in war.
They don't all. The 8's I know are pretty thick-skinned, but not the 7's and 1's. No one I know of those types actually has a "heart of stone". I realize you're trying to illustrate ruthlessness, though.
7w6cp Sx/sp
ENFP
Dramatic/Mercurial/Adventurous/Idiosyncratic Style
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
6253 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 4:56:57 PM
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quote:
Father figure does not have to be so literal as with Bashar. After all Germany just a generation ago had Otto von Bismarck and his 'blood and iron' policy...
1s e.g also have that father figure vibe , self control, responsible. etc . the protector -8 -vibe is only one side of the coin.the other side of the story, to take it to an extreme is the irresponsible, excessive maniac at the edge of the catastrophe as to 8s. from my point of view your focusing only one side of 8s as to your personal vibe standards. there is a mix.
maby a lot of older daddy 8s are more concerned with being the protective big daddy ..
btw hitler had no family and no wife and no children. brother dead when hitler was 11, father dead when he was 14, mother dead when he was 18...
( maby that's why he had to kill and destroy (to restage his personal catastrohe and tragedy ) among others... who knows..)
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Edited by - Glasgow on 20 Jun 2011 5:51:52 PM |
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Veiled One
Member
5590 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 5:00:14 PM
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Hey....if I were mentioning Stalin or Saddam Hussain you will know that I am very familiar with the excessive, maniacal, and narcissistic Eights. It can easily coexist with the big daddy vibe, alas.
8w7 soc/sx, because sexual fives suck |
Edited by - Veiled One on 20 Jun 2011 5:01:31 PM |
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Odyssey
Member
3792 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 5:01:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
But what 8s, 7s, and 1s have that the other guys don't, is a thick skin and a heart of stone. It really helps in business, and even more in war.
Whether they actually have or not a heart of stone, I do not know.
But they act like they do.
They act like nothing will come between them and their goal.
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Glasgow
Member
Germany
6253 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 5:08:01 PM
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quote:
Hey....if I were mentioning Stalin or Saddam Hussain you will know that I am very familiar with the excessive, maniacal, and narcissistic Eights. It can easily coexist with the big daddy vibe, alas.
well stalin does not look that excessive, maniacal, and narcissistic like hitler but he has more that side of the big daddy. maby among other things because stalin had a family and children. hitler was alone, everybody died during his childhood and puberty , he had now wife and no chlidren, see above...i believe he was very blunted..
but he loved his german shepherd dog very much...
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Edited by - Glasgow on 20 Jun 2011 6:00:58 PM |
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sunny
Member
USA
9596 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 6:01:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
quote:
Originally posted by Odyssey
But what 8s, 7s, and 1s have that the other guys don't, is a thick skin and a heart of stone. It really helps in business, and even more in war.
Whether they actually have or not a heart of stone, I do not know.
But they act like they do.
They act like nothing will come between them and their goal.
If the "goal" is something they lust for, yes, but the 8s I know aren't exactly into goals. Goal orientation makes me think there's some connection with 3.
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shakti
Member
USA
10720 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2011 : 6:03:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JoL
[quote]Originally posted by Roshan
for JoL, it seems to me that this is something which, as a community at large, we often forget.((Meaning that in a way we don't want to remember, which is closedminded). As a community, I said, and from a birds eye view.
From your point of view Roshan. Who exactly is "we". Why do you assume that "the community" is being closed-minded?? Do we all have the same mind or something? Aren't we in fact, a group of individuals with our own opinions?
Imagine the community as a bird, now place yourself inside that bird and look out through the right eye and then the left eye. What are you trained to see? Worms? Threats? Fruit? Flowers? What is this bird drawn to? Picket fences to sing on, human heads for target practice, rubbish bins with fresh garbarge to peck at, a scurrying rodent 1000 ft away? Never mind the bird brains, or the early bird, or the bird in the hand. By definition, this community bird is of one mind, it barely has room for that. No one talks about "as open-minded as a bird" or the multitudinous perspectives of a bird as it hops and flies and walks around and its immense capacity to synthesize reality.  |
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Topic |
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What is Hitler's type?
